12 Aug
2026
12 Aug
'26
12:28 p.m.
I apologize for interrupting more reasonable conversations about much
more interesting machines, but I would appreciate some assistance.
I didn't plan on having any x86 systems here, save for a bench machine
to make images using Teledisk and relations.
I did acquire a Kaypro 4+88 over time, which has an x86, as part of a
larger Kaypro rescue, for which I am grateful to those on list who
helped me with repairs and getting boot disks.
However, a number of years back, someone offered me a 5150 PC with the
(unknown by me until that day) 5161 Expansion Chassis. That seemed
unique, and I wanted to mess around with the expansion chassis.
Over the years, as part of rescues and helping out the VCF consignment
space years ago, a Compaq Portable I and a Portable 386 (with the plasma
screen) have ended up here, as well as a recent Panasonic Senior Partner
(cool system, IMHO).
That said, I am sitting here looking at a pretty clean 5160 XT that has
been significantly stripped. No FDD or HDD, no HDD controller, no video
card, no KB, fully populated 256kB mobo, but only 1 card installed (AST
SixPac). Unit powers up to long beep and then short ones (video issue,
which is understandable).
If I rescue a system, no matter what it is, I try to restore to
operational condition, with some practicality (using solid state media
instead of a HDD, stuff like that). This unit is going to need a lot of
work, and I am trying to decide how important it is to have both a 5150
PC and a 5160 XT, since the XT was such a marginal update to the PC
(-cassette, bit newer BIOS, 8 slots instead of 5). The PC setup I have
already has 11 slots combined, an HDD, and full memory, video, and KB.
Still, it is an original IBM PC XT, there's some history there.
I'm struggling with how much importance to apply to this "needs a lot of
TLC" unit, and I would appreciate constructive points. VCF MW is coming
up, and if I want to get this into someone else's hands to
restore/enjoy, then would be an ideal time. If it's important to keep,
VCF MW is probably a great place to grab the pieces needed to restore it.
Jim
--
Jim Brain
brain(a)jbrain.com
www.jbrain.com
12 Aug
12 Aug
2:03 p.m.
the XT is one of my favorites. When I first started messing around with
vintage computers in the early 90s it was to sell and offer to repair PC/XT
computers. I used to advertise in the local paper. I also supported GRiD
laptops and Compaq PC's.
I didn't call it "vintage computers" back then though of course. Bill
On Wed, Aug 12, 2026 at 4:33 PM Jim Brain via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
I apologize for interrupting more reasonable
conversations about much
more interesting machines, but I would appreciate some assistance.
I didn't plan on having any x86 systems here, save for a bench machine
to make images using Teledisk and relations.
I did acquire a Kaypro 4+88 over time, which has an x86, as part of a
larger Kaypro rescue, for which I am grateful to those on list who
helped me with repairs and getting boot disks.
However, a number of years back, someone offered me a 5150 PC with the
(unknown by me until that day) 5161 Expansion Chassis. That seemed
unique, and I wanted to mess around with the expansion chassis.
Over the years, as part of rescues and helping out the VCF consignment
space years ago, a Compaq Portable I and a Portable 386 (with the plasma
screen) have ended up here, as well as a recent Panasonic Senior Partner
(cool system, IMHO).
That said, I am sitting here looking at a pretty clean 5160 XT that has
been significantly stripped. No FDD or HDD, no HDD controller, no video
card, no KB, fully populated 256kB mobo, but only 1 card installed (AST
SixPac). Unit powers up to long beep and then short ones (video issue,
which is understandable).
If I rescue a system, no matter what it is, I try to restore to
operational condition, with some practicality (using solid state media
instead of a HDD, stuff like that). This unit is going to need a lot of
work, and I am trying to decide how important it is to have both a 5150
PC and a 5160 XT, since the XT was such a marginal update to the PC
(-cassette, bit newer BIOS, 8 slots instead of 5). The PC setup I have
already has 11 slots combined, an HDD, and full memory, video, and KB.
Still, it is an original IBM PC XT, there's some history there.
I'm struggling with how much importance to apply to this "needs a lot of
TLC" unit, and I would appreciate constructive points. VCF MW is coming
up, and if I want to get this into someone else's hands to
restore/enjoy, then would be an ideal time. If it's important to keep,
VCF MW is probably a great place to grab the pieces needed to restore it.
Jim
--
Jim Brain
brain(a)jbrain.com
www.jbrain.com
2:23 p.m.
On Wed, Aug 12, 2026 at 4:33 PM Jim Brain via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
...I am sitting here looking at a pretty clean 5160 XT
that has
been significantly stripped...
... I am trying to decide how important it is to have both a 5150
PC and a 5160 XT, since the XT was such a marginal update to the PC
(-cassette, bit newer BIOS, 8 slots instead of 5). The PC setup I have
already has 11 slots combined, an HDD, and full memory, video, and KB.
Still, it is an original IBM PC XT, there's some history there.
The usual first-line is how much personal nostalgia there is for a
specific machine or configuration. Lacking that, from a more
objective utilitarian approach is those differences made the XT a lot
more usable for real-world work over the original PC.
It was trivial to max out the 5 slots in a PC with minimal essential
peripherals (FDC, multi-I/O-and-RAM expansion, serial, video, and a
printer port, in various combinations of boards and options). 8 slots
in the XT plus a newer motherboard meant more open slots for devices
and a bigger PSU for cards and a hard disk. Compute-wise they are in
the same class but you can load more software and get more jobs done
with the XT, and even after the AT first came out, the XT was still
quite viable for some time (and the XT you already had was pretty
attractive compared to the $5,000 color-monitor-and-printer bundle
from IBM in 1985).
I'm struggling with how much importance to apply
to this "needs a lot of
TLC" unit, and I would appreciate constructive points. VCF MW is coming
up, and if I want to get this into someone else's hands to
restore/enjoy, then would be an ideal time. If it's important to keep,
VCF MW is probably a great place to grab the pieces needed to restore it.
If your 5150 does the things you want an 8-bit IBM machine to do, then
keep that and focus on making the 5160 appealing to the next guy.
That said, a few years back I tried to sell a 5160 in original boxes
with some small historical tie (it came from the founder of Grammar
Engine, makers of the PromICE ROM emulators that were once all the
rage). I had everything ready to hand over, working, in boxes, and
was asking $375 (Model F keyboard included!) and got no nibbles
whatsoever. It probably isn't the most collectible model by number,
so there it is.
-ethan
7:37 p.m.
On 8/12/2026 5:23 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:
On Wed, Aug 12, 2026 at 4:33 PM Jim Brain via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
I mean, we had XT's in
our HS, but not a ton of nostalgia there.
...I am sitting here looking at a pretty clean
5160 XT that has
been significantly stripped...
... I am trying to decide how important it is to have both a 5150
PC and a 5160 XT, since the XT was such a marginal update to the PC
(-cassette, bit newer BIOS, 8 slots instead of 5). The PC setup I have
already has 11 slots combined, an HDD, and full memory, video, and KB.
Still, it is an original IBM PC XT, there's some history there.
The usual
first-line is how much personal nostalgia there is for a
specific machine or configuration. Lacking that, from a more
objective utilitarian approach is those differences made the XT a lot
more usable for real-world work over the original PC. It was trivial to max out the 5 slots in a PC with
minimal essential
peripherals (FDC, multi-I/O-and-RAM expansion, serial, video, and a
printer port, in various combinations of boards and options). 8 slots
in the XT plus a newer motherboard meant more open slots for devices
and a bigger PSU for cards and a hard disk. Compute-wise they are in
the same class but you can load more software and get more jobs done
with the XT, and even after the AT first came out, the XT was still
quite viable for some time (and the XT you already had was pretty
attractive compared to the $5,000 color-monitor-and-printer bundle
from IBM in 1985).
I nkow, BITD, the XT was appealing, and had I not been offered
the 5161
expansion chassis-equipped PC, I'd agree with the utility to me as
well. But, THe two chassis' give me 130W, 11 slots, though if there is
SW that will only run on the XT versus the PC, I'm curious.
If your 5150 does the things you want an 8-bit IBM
machine to do, then
keep that and focus on making the 5160 appealing to the next guy.
To be fair, the
5150 does not get a bunch of use either, and space is a
bit of a premium, which is another reason I made the request.
That said, a few years back I tried to sell a 5160 in original boxes
with some small historical tie (it came from the founder of Grammar
Engine, makers of the PromICE ROM emulators that were once all the
rage). I had everything ready to hand over, working, in boxes, and
was asking $375 (Model F keyboard included!) and got no nibbles
whatsoever. It probably isn't the most collectible model by number,
so there it is.
You would not perchance still have that setup for sale? I just ask
because if that does exist, I am probably more interested in a machine
with some history than a random XT.
I admit, it's hard to even ask, because I've rarely let a machine go
after acquisition (unless I have dupes, and I don't have an XT
otherwise), and I was hoping for someone to really help me get comfy in
letting it go to a new home, but the arguments made are somewhat
compelling (and, it just looks like it need some love sitting here on
the bench devoid of cards). Argh.
Jim
-ethan
--
Jim Brain
brain(a)jbrain.com
www.jbrain.com
2:58 p.m.
On Wed, 12 Aug 2026, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote:
. . .
a lot of work, and I am trying to decide how important
it is to have
both a 5150 PC and a 5160 XT, since the XT was such a marginal update
to the PC (-cassette, bit newer BIOS, 8 slots instead of 5). The PC
setup I have already has 11 slots combined, an HDD, and full memory,
video, and KB.
Other than leaving out that it has a more powerful 130W, instead of 65,
you summarized the differences
BTW, with trivial mods, you can populate it with 2 rows of 256K + 2 rows
of 64K, to bring it up to the 640K maximum.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
3:41 p.m.
Yah, for me it's all about when I went to the U of D, it was the
workhorse machine for papers, etc. and I worked at IBM a little after
that. There were still XT's around then. I always thought they were
a lot better than Commodore and Tandy and all that, then. I didn't
play games as much I guess, but I still had a few games from when they
passed around disks at IBM.
On Wed, Aug 12, 2026 at 6:58 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Wed, 12 Aug 2026, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote:
. . .
a lot of work, and I am trying to decide how
important it is to have
both a 5150 PC and a 5160 XT, since the XT was such a marginal update
to the PC (-cassette, bit newer BIOS, 8 slots instead of 5). The PC
setup I have already has 11 slots combined, an HDD, and full memory,
video, and KB.
Other than leaving out that it has a more powerful 130W, instead of 65,
you summarized the differences
BTW, with trivial mods, you can populate it with 2 rows of 256K + 2 rows
of 64K, to bring it up to the 640K maximum.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com 
3:50 p.m.
On 2026-08-12 4:58 p.m., Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
On Wed, 12 Aug 2026, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote:
. . .
Are there any generic machines or modern rebuilds (static ram) to
replace a 86 and a 386 for those that
still need a machine for vintage I/O cards? Your typical US Nuclear
power plant comes to mind.
PS. Avoid any surplus PDP's that glow in the dark.:)
PPS. Did they have problems when a PDP-5's ran power plants?
a lot of work, and I am trying to decide how
important it is to have
both a 5150 PC and a 5160 XT, since the XT was such a marginal update
to the PC (-cassette, bit newer BIOS, 8 slots instead of 5). The PC
setup I have already has 11 slots combined, an HDD, and full memory,
video, and KB.
Other than leaving out that it has a more powerful 130W, instead of 65,
you summarized the differences
BTW, with trivial mods, you can populate it with 2 rows of 256K + 2 rows
of 64K, to bring it up to the 640K maximum.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
4:17 p.m.
For me the difference comes down to whether you have a hard drive or a
dual-floppy.
The 5150 was the first 'business class" computer that I recall using. Two
floppy drives. The lack of the HDD leads to a particular workflow and
places limits on the software that you can run. I remember lots of disk
swapping. I also remember the built in ROM Basic, and playing with that
occasionally when there was no disk in the drive. This provided a nice
bridge from my prior computer, a Coco-2, which of course came with BASIC in
ROM. As far as the cassette port, I never used that and I assume few people
ever did. The card slots are limited, but that's part of the fun, adding in
something like a Six Pack Plus. My first experience was with with MDA and a
monochrome monitor. CGA and Hercules were something I only read about in PC
Magazine.
Of course, these computers were meant to be upgraded, and often were.
Adding the expansion chassis is a perfectly reasonable period accurate
thing to have done. There were even 80286 upgrade boards that replaced the
main CPU. So you really can justify almost any configuration that you can
build. There is no wrong answer.
After the 5150 my next experience was a Tandy 1000. Constrained on slots,
but with better graphics, better sound out of the box. This was where I had
my first HDD, some clunky external thing with a ribbon cable.
Scott
On Wed, Aug 12, 2026 at 4:51 PM ben via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
On 2026-08-12 4:58 p.m., Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
On Wed, 12 Aug 2026, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote:
. . .
Are there any generic machines or modern rebuilds (static ram) to
replace a 86 and a 386 for those that
still need a machine for vintage I/O cards? Your typical US Nuclear
power plant comes to mind.
PS. Avoid any surplus PDP's that glow in the dark.:)
PPS. Did they have problems when a PDP-5's ran power plants?
a lot of work, and I am trying to decide how
important it is to have
both a 5150 PC and a 5160 XT, since the XT was such a marginal update
to the PC (-cassette, bit newer BIOS, 8 slots instead of 5). The PC
setup I have already has 11 slots combined, an HDD, and full memory,
video, and KB.
Other than leaving out that it has a more powerful 130W, instead of 65,
you summarized the differences
BTW, with trivial mods, you can populate it with 2 rows of 256K + 2 rows
of 64K, to bring it up to the 640K maximum.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
7:35 p.m.
The BIOS and DOS and the 5150/5160 disk controller board could handle four
drives. The 3rd and 4th were handled by a DC37 connector on the back, so
putting those drives inside required a somewhat special cable.
Also set the DIPswitches. Starting with DOS 3.20, DRVPARM and/or
DRIVER.SYS let you fill DOS in on what kind of drives they were.
Rather than "dual floppy", my last XT had an ST225, one SA455 drives, one
SA465, and an SA350, and a switchable cable pigtail for connecting up a 5th
external floppy. (such as 100tpi Micropolis)
My last AT was not all in the case: slightly non-standard but almost the
same FDC board, two ST4096, one SA475, one SA455, an SA350, and a TM848
8", A COPYII-PC Option board, and an AMDEK 1280 display, (1280x800/ 50
text characters per line) and a CGA, and a controller for CX Canon laser
engine that simulated Postscript, HP PCL, and Cordata. Many of my floppy
cables had an extra switch to temporarily mask off index. I jumpered one
of my 455s to reverse write enable/protect Open notch is protected,
covered notch is writeable. (That's how software distribution can be
done on no-notch disks)
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
On Wed, 12 Aug 2026, Scott Baker via cctalk wrote:
For me the difference comes down to whether you have a
hard drive or a
dual-floppy.
The 5150 was the first 'business class" computer that I recall using. Two
floppy drives. The lack of the HDD leads to a particular workflow and
places limits on the software that you can run. I remember lots of disk
swapping. I also remember the built in ROM Basic, and playing with that
occasionally when there was no disk in the drive. This provided a nice
bridge from my prior computer, a Coco-2, which of course came with BASIC in
ROM. As far as the cassette port, I never used that and I assume few people
ever did. The card slots are limited, but that's part of the fun, adding in
something like a Six Pack Plus. My first experience was with with MDA and a
monochrome monitor. CGA and Hercules were something I only read about in PC
Magazine.
Of course, these computers were meant to be upgraded, and often were.
Adding the expansion chassis is a perfectly reasonable period accurate
thing to have done. There were even 80286 upgrade boards that replaced the
main CPU. So you really can justify almost any configuration that you can
build. There is no wrong answer.
After the 5150 my next experience was a Tandy 1000. Constrained on slots,
but with better graphics, better sound out of the box. This was where I had
my first HDD, some clunky external thing with a ribbon cable.
Scott
7:42 p.m.
On 8/12/2026 7:17 PM, Scott Baker via cctalk wrote:
For me the difference comes down to whether you have a
hard drive or a
dual-floppy.
The 5150 setup has a HDD, the more I mention it, it might make a good
unit to bring to VCF-MW, as I'm not sure many have seen the 5161 (I
hadn't...) The PSU and extra slots noted, my current PC setup minimizes
the value of the differences.
And yes, I upgraded my PCs over the years, though I don't know that I
need to do that here.
Jim
--
Jim Brain
brain(a)jbrain.com
www.jbrain.com
7:30 p.m.
On 8/12/2026 6:50 PM, ben via cctalk wrote:
Are there any generic machines or modern rebuilds
(static ram) to
replace a 86 and a 386 for those that
still need a machine for vintage I/O cards? Your typical US Nuclear
power plant comes to mind.
I see quite a few mature 8088/V20 projects with SRAM released in the
last few years, but interestingly, no 8086 ones.
FOr 386 options, I see this one at first glance:
https://alexandrugroza.ro/microelectronics/system-design/isa-80386dx-sbmc/i…
Need a backplane, but that's also pretty easy to find contemporary
backplane projects.
Looks like someone is in the early stages of a 386 mobo recreation over
at VCFed:
https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/project-to-create-an-atx-80386dx-…
Jim
--
Jim Brain
brain(a)jbrain.com
www.jbrain.com
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6 participants
participants (6)
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ben -
Bill Degnan -
Ethan Dicks -
Fred Cisin -
Jim Brain -
Scott Baker