On Jul 25, 2025, at 1:13 PM, cz via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: Oh is this public now? I remember this, it was hilarious. Imagine what happens when all your valves go to "open" or "closed" at once....

pdp 14 westhead associates (unknown canadian company) cpm based system i have the manuals and software for their pdm800 system GE fanuc USDATA hmi siemens who is notorious for buying up the companies u seek to learn about gould have manuals for some of that modicon i think motorola got into it for a bit as well On Fri, Jul 25, 2025 at 12:35 PM Paul Koning via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote: > > > > On Jul 25, 2025, at 1:13 PM, cz via cctalk &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; > wrote: > > > > Oh is this public now? I remember this, it was hilarious. Imagine what > happens when all your valves go to "open" or "closed" at once.... > > It reminds me a bit of the opening scene of Red Storm Rising -- Tom > Clancy's second novel though actually a not well credited collaboration > with Larry Bond, and in some ways more reminiscent of Bond's work than > Clancy's. Great stuff, in any case. > > paul > > >> Also, way back, there was a case where a SCADA manufacturer thought > some of their gear was being bought for the trans-Siberia pipeline, and > couldn't be sold for that under trade restrictions. Somebody at that > company got in touch with a contact at the CIA, and asked if they wanted to > insert a "feature" into those units. They put in a time bomb that was > essentially the same as the Y2K shutdown, and blew up the entire pipeline > when all the valves slammed shut at the same time. This info was reported > by the famous Jack Anderson in the Washington Post. > >> Jon > > > >

Oh is this public now? I remember this, it was hilarious. Imagine what happens when all your valves go to "open" or "closed" at once. I wonder if this led to the downfall of the Soviet Union. Just think about how you would feel if you suddenly realized that all the infrastructure based on chips and designs that you stole was now 100% suspect and could blow up at any time. VAX, PDP11, etc.... And remember when the Pentium "bug" came out? Wasn't that just weird.... Ah fun stuff no doubt.

On 07/25/2025 4:28 PM EDT Fred Cisin via cctalk &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote: That's not just a nasty prank, that is an act of war.

On 7/25/25 15:28, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: Well, this was during the "cold" war. This prank moved the meter toward the hot side a bit. But, the Russians couldn't really complain, they KNEW they were taking a risk to try to circumvent trade restrictions. Get hold of the book Spycraft" by Robert Wallace and H. Keith Melton, there are a bunch of similar stories described there. Jon

Thank you for the information. Sadly i wish we were on the "soft and squishy" security model as you describe it. Ive raised concerns, and its not been made a priority. Most of what we have is very dumb 1200 baud packet modems, all the stations get polled by a central station and they just reply with sensor readings and levels. This is changing with some of our newer models of plc tech, but of course if its not broke, why replace it? That 15 year old plc is just fine dont change it.... Adoption of our latest more secure hardware is extremely slow. Interesting to hear the security concerns you mentioned. I had gone to defcon, they had a neat little model of a city there you could try to wreck. The whole city was run by different plc vendors, intentionally set up insecure, so you could break in, kill the power, overflow wells etc. Nice illistrative example of whats at stake. --Devin D.. On July 25, 2025 9:12:40 PM EDT, Doug Jackson via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote: > As part of my day job, I have been involved with ethical hacking of some > SCADA environments. > > Typically, they use encrypted radios for communicating with remote sites. > The RF side is pretty good. But, once you are at a remote site and you > open an outside control box beside some pumps, they almost never have the > alarm sensors configured and you can access the data side of the encrypted > radio. Once there, everything is like a university network (hard on the > outside, soft and squishy inside)! > > And because it's SCADA, nobody flashes firmware or does other upgrades, > because they are scared of the system coming down. So the list of open > exploits is massive. Sometimes they even trust network traffic coming in > from the SCADA environment because they think it's secure, and it provides > a useful launchpad into the corporate network..... Then it gets fun. > > Kindest regards, > > Doug Jackson > > em: doug(a)doughq.com > ph: 0414 986878 > > Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net > > > > On Sat, 26 Jul 2025 at 11:00, Jon Elson via cctalk &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; > wrote: > > On 7/25/25 15:28, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: >> >>> Also, way back, there was a case where a SCADA >>>> manufacturer thought some of their gear was being bought >>>> for the trans-Siberia pipeline, and couldn't be sold for >>>> that under trade restrictions. Somebody at that company >>>> got in touch with a contact at the CIA, and asked if they >>>> wanted to insert a "feature" into those units. They put >>>> in a time bomb that was essentially the same as the Y2K >>>> shutdown, and blew up the entire pipeline when all the >>>> valves slammed shut at the same time. This info was >>>> reported by the famous Jack Anderson in the Washington Post. >>>> >>> >>> That's not just a nasty prank, that is an act of war. >>> >> >> Well, this was during the "cold" war. This prank moved the >> meter toward the hot side a bit. But, the Russians couldn't >> really complain, they KNEW they were taking a risk to try to >> circumvent trade restrictions. >> >> Get hold of the book Spycraft" by Robert Wallace and H. >> Keith Melton, there are a bunch of similar stories described >> there. >> >> Jon >> >>

Yea, It is fascinating the damage that can be caused by a pump ignoring the upper limit switch on a water reservoir, and the subsequent damage to the foundations....

On 7/24/25 23:09, Devin via cctalk wrote: Allen-Bradley made a bunch of SCADA gear that was used in power substations.

On 7/24/25 23:09, Devin via cctalk wrote: pdp 11 and vax systems. I have decided to pivot my career to scada syatems. The company i am with has some interesting stuff that goes pretty far back. Our custom in house tech is a plc pump controller with a radio connection for data logging and control. Pretty cool, 8051 based, with a version of basic in rom that has scada functions added. The backend servers are just linux systems, although in a modular backplane for easy replacement. Are there other historic scada system computers or technologies that are similar, easily found on ebay for example? how it would be used remotely in the field, as a remote Allen-Bradley made a bunch of SCADA gear that was used in power substations. I think theirs MIGHT have been the one that was responsible for the Y2K scare, but it might have been somebody else's unit. Also, way back, there was a case where a SCADA manufacturer thought some of their gear was being bought for the trans-Siberia pipeline, and couldn't be sold for that under trade restrictions. Somebody at that company got in touch with a contact at the CIA, and asked if they wanted to insert a "feature" into those units. They put in a time bomb that was essentially the same as the Y2K shutdown, and blew up the entire pipeline when all the valves slammed shut at the same time. This info was reported by the famous Jack Anderson in the Washington Post. Jon

And now we buy all these Chinese made gadgets ... On Fri, 25 July 2025, 11:10 pm Jon Elson via cctalk, < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote: syatems. back. just