1 Sep
2022
1 Sep
'22
3:12 p.m.
jim stephens <jwsmail(a)jwsss.com> wrote:
Sad day when AOL changed to CDs and you then had to
make
coasters or trash them.
My wife and our neighbor use them as reflectors to scare birds away from
her garden. We finally ran out of the AOL CDs and are now working on my
backlog of MSDN CDs. I keep them stacked on a 1/2" wooden dowel, and
still have a roughly 4' high stack. That should last us for a few years.
Alan Frisbie
1 Sep
1 Sep
11:01 p.m.
New subject: Flipping an 8" diskette
> Sad day when AOL changed to CDs and you then had
to make
> coasters or trash them.
On Thu, 1 Sep 2022, Alan Frisbie via cctalk wrote:
My wife and our neighbor use them as reflectors to
scare birds away from
her garden. We finally ran out of the AOL CDs and are now working on my
backlog of MSDN CDs. I keep them stacked on a 1/2" wooden dowel, and
still have a roughly 4' high stack. That should last us for a few years.
I made a pizza cutter out of one. It worked about as well as a pizza
cutter as AOHell worked for online access.
No idea what to do with the stacks of others.
2 Sep
2 Sep
12:28 a.m.
New subject: Flipping an 8" diskette
I'm sitting here with a customer's 8" floppy in front of me. The
manufacturer's label is simply "Diskette" on both front and back with
the usual "Diskette No." legend and "Side 1" or "Side 2"
respectively.
The curious thing is that this disk is not only a "flippy", but has a
*third* index aperture punched for double-sided applications. The
holes are accurately placed without any sign of being post-purchase
additions.
Call it a transitional example.
Memorex started off by calling theirs "Flexible Disc" (note the
spelling). A bit later Memorex used the "Markette" labeling before
giving in with the crowd and calling them "Diskettes" and "Disks".
--Chuck
12:45 a.m.
New subject: Flipping an 8" diskette
On Thu, 1 Sep 2022, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
I'm sitting here with a customer's 8"
floppy in front of me. The
manufacturer's label is simply "Diskette" on both front and back with
the usual "Diskette No." legend and "Side 1" or "Side 2"
respectively.
The curious thing is that this disk is not only a "flippy", but has a
*third* index aperture punched for double-sided applications. The
holes are accurately placed without any sign of being post-purchase
additions.
Call it a transitional example.
How do they handle the issue of how the drive knows whether it is SS, DS,
or SS flippy? Or is it assumed that that problem is for the host FDC?
(some DS drives had both SS and DS index sensors, so that they could read
SS in the DS drive, and such a drive is going to see TWO index pulses with
this disk!)
Memorex started off by calling theirs "Flexible
Disc" (note the
spelling). A bit later Memorex used the "Markette" labeling before
giving in with the crowd and calling them "Diskettes" and "Disks".
Didn't HP continue to say "disc"?
MOST switched to "disk".
HOWEVER, the strong influence of Philips on compact disc meant that CD and
DVD became "disc".
When I was publishing my Honda book, I had some battles with the
publisher's editor about whether Honda had "disc brakes" or "disk
brakes".
(also battles about Oxford comma (they claimed that that was archaic!),
and whether to say, "till", "til", "'til", or
"until". (the comma after
"'til" is the "Oxford comma"))
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
1:10 a.m.
New subject: Flipping an 8" diskette
On 9/1/22 17:45, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
How do they handle the issue of how the drive knows
whether it is SS,
DS, or SS flippy? Or is it assumed that that problem is for the host FDC?
(some DS drives had both SS and DS index sensors, so that they could
read SS in the DS drive, and such a drive is going to see TWO index
pulses with this disk!)
I think I was using a Qume 842 to read the disk and it turned out to be
double-sided, so there was no problem reading it. The disk itself
probably arrived here 30 years ago, so my memory may be faulty.
This isn't the first floppy I've seen with both SS and DS holes,
however. I recall that using a write-enable sticky over the appropriate
index aperture resolved the problem of side-edness.
--Chuck
2:23 a.m.
New subject: Flipping an 8" diskette
On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 5:45 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
How do they handle the issue of how the drive knows whether it is SS, DS,
or SS flippy? Or is it assumed that that problem is for the host FDC?
(some DS drives had both SS and DS index sensors, so that they could read
SS in the DS drive, and such a drive is going to see TWO index pulses with
this disk!)
The typical response from the manufacturer is to first blame the user, and
if that's ruled out, blame the hardware (or vice versa). If both issues
are ruled out, they theny hang up the phone or disconnect the chat, and let
the user call back only to receive another tech who will repeat the
process.
When I was publishing my Honda book, I had some battles with the
publisher's editor about whether Honda had
"disc brakes" or "disk brakes".
(also battles about Oxford comma (they claimed that that was archaic!),
and whether to say, "till", "til", "'til", or
"until". (the comma after
"'til" is the "Oxford comma"))
The "Oxford comma" is basically optional in modern writing, but in some
specific cases it makes sense to use it for clarity. However, in law
(specifically contracts) it's imperative. I can't remember the specific
case, but within the last couple of years I remember reading about one
where the lack of the comma meant the court agreed with the workers over
the company and ruled they were entitled to overtime pay.
Sellam
5:15 a.m.
New subject: Flipping an 8" diskette
> How do they handle the issue of how the drive
knows whether it is SS, DS,
> or SS flippy? Or is it assumed that that problem is for the host FDC?
> (some DS drives had both SS and DS index sensors, so that they could read
> SS in the DS drive, and such a drive is going to see TWO index pulses with
> this disk!)
On Thu, 1 Sep 2022, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:
The typical response from the manufacturer is to first
blame the user, and
if that's ruled out, blame the hardware (or vice versa). If both issues
are ruled out, they theny hang up the phone or disconnect the chat, and let
the user call back only to receive another tech who will repeat the
process.
Well, I was speculating about possible engineering solutions, rather than
assignment of blame :-) Tech support can handle THAT.
Obviously, it can be left to the user to mask off any extraneous index
holes.
Usually, the OS has its own ways to identify what's there, such as a
"MEDIA ID BYTE" or a data structure (DPB) at a fixed location that will be
accessible disunirregardless of which format it is.
Another way is obviously to do a read from first side. Current approach is
sorta for the OS to check any return codes from the FDC, and display a
message from a table. If it falls through the decision tree, then say
"GENERAL FAILURE" (top brass in 'Nam?)
But, the OS can try a read of the second side. If the first side seems
readable but the second side isn't, then assume SS.
Try an FM read; try an MFM read; try a read at each data transfer rate.
When you achieve success, assume that that's the format.
When I was publishing my Honda book, I had some
battles with the
There are some situations where it is critical for unambiguity. More
often than not, the Oxford comma reduces ambiguity. I USE IT. But, it is
possible to come up with some [relatively rare] examples where it
increases ambiguity.
The publisher's editor had an impressive ability to read a passage, and
come up with a wrong interpretation of it. THAT was very useful, since
once I could rewrite so that he was UNABLE to misinterpret, I could be
reasonably confident that the reader couldn't.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
publisher's editor about whether Honda had
"disc brakes" or "disk brakes".
(also battles about Oxford comma (they claimed that that was archaic!),
and whether to say, "till", "til", "'til", or
"until". (the comma after
"'til" is the "Oxford comma"))
The "Oxford comma" is basically optional in modern writing, but in some
specific cases it makes sense to use it for clarity. However, in law
(specifically contracts) it's imperative. I can't remember the specific
case, but within the last couple of years I remember reading about one
where the lack of the comma meant the court agreed with the workers over
the company and ruled they were entitled to overtime pay. 
8:37 a.m.
New subject: Flipping an 8" diskette
------ Original Message ------
From: "Fred Cisin via cctalk" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
To: "Chuck Guzis via cctalk" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Cc: "Fred Cisin" <cisin(a)xenosoft.com>
Sent: Friday, 2 Sep, 2022 At 01:45
Subject: [cctalk] Re: Flipping an 8" diskette
Didn't HP continue to say "disc"?
MOST switched to "disk".
HOWEVER, the strong influence of Philips on compact disc meant that CD
and DVD became "disc".
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
This is no way a standardised thing. But generally i call a "disc" in a
case (of some sort) a "disk", IE hard drives, floppy disks, CD's in
caddies. And a bare media as a "disc"
Josh
814
days inactive
815
days old
7 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
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Alan Frisbie -
Chuck Guzis -
Fred Cisin -
Joshua Rice -
Sellam Abraham