15 Aug
2024
15 Aug
'24
9:21 a.m.
Christies lot listings for the Paul Allen / LCM stuff are now up.
Pretty sad to see such a collection of notable items broken up.
The web presentation is a little confusing. I think it breaks down like this:
Intro / overview:
https://www.christies.com/en/stories/paul-allen-computer-collection-d946162…
<https://www.christies.com/en/stories/paul-allen-computer-collection-d946162ef5744d7bb43c4459733bf9cf>
https://www.christies.com/en/stories/gen-one-innovations-from-the-paul-g-al…
<https://www.christies.com/en/stories/gen-one-innovations-from-the-paul-g-allen-collection-1f0df60a726e4dcbabef3a91a57ef7ee>
—
The auctions:
https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/firsts-history-computing-paul-g-allen-co…
<https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/firsts-history-computing-paul-g-allen-collection/lots/3726>
https://www.christies.com/en/auction/pushing-boundaries-ingenuity-from-the-…
<https://www.christies.com/en/auction/pushing-boundaries-ingenuity-from-the-paul-g-allen-collection-30730/>
(Allen, but not computers):
https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/over-horizon-art-future-paul-g-allen-col…
<https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/over-horizon-art-future-paul-g-allen-collection/lots/3727>
—
(A couple of item sublinks from above):
The CDC 6500:
https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/firsts-history-computing-paul-g-allen-co…
<https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/firsts-history-computing-paul-g-allen-collection/cdc-6500-supercomputer-118/230057?ldp_breadcrumb=back>
The PDP-10:
https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/firsts-history-computing-paul-g-allen-co…
<https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/firsts-history-computing-paul-g-allen-collection/dec-pdp-10-ki10-mainframe-computer-125/230064>
15 Aug
15 Aug
9:50 a.m.
On Aug 15, 2024, at 12:21 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Christies lot listings for the Paul Allen / LCM stuff are now up.
Pretty sad to see such a collection of notable items broken up.
The web presentation is a little confusing. I think it breaks down like this: ...
It seems there are two auctions, with two separate schedules. One puzzle is that some of
the items in the "History of Computing" auction, like the SC40, are listed as
"LCM collection". LCM of course is a museum and non-profit institution, which
makes it puzzling to see its property appear in the same auction as Paul Allen's
private items like the CDC 6500.
The later auction shows a DD60 console display. Tempting...
paul
2:11 p.m.
One of the items listed is "A group of six calculators". Most of them are
calculators, but one is an LGP-30. I can't tell how complete it is, but it
doesn't look too beat up.
paul
2:41 p.m.
I dare to bet it's the last one. Anywhere.
Well. Now that my *rage* has settled down a bit ...
... a least the "expected amount" on these items will probably mean
they won't go to scrap.
The machines are probably going to go for less than a million. There
are _thousands_ of people in this country who could have just written
a check.
I'm going back to rage some more. Don't mind me.
mcl
4:01 p.m.
I am surprised they have the estimated opening bids amounts for the DEC PDP-10 systems, as
well as the IBM 7090, set so low. They can't be that numerous either. But then again,
still too costly for another museum to just pick them up.
I had selfishly hoped to see my donated mid-1980s Zenith PC clone and all of its re-badged
software (including Lotus 123 and MS Fortran and early DOS Word) included in one of the
clumped microcomputer collections, but alas it was not. Was probably chucked into a
rubbish bin for disposal a long time ago.
Kevin Anderson
Dubuque, Iowa
4:34 p.m.
On Aug 15, 2024, at 7:01 PM, Kevin Anderson via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
I am surprised they have the estimated opening bids amounts for the DEC PDP-10 systems,
as well as the IBM 7090, set so low. They can't be that numerous either. But then
again, still too costly for another museum to just pick them up.
And never mind the estimate for the LGP-30. Or the PDP-5. Or the straight-8 even
allowing for the fact that it seems to have no I/O devices of any kind.
Does anyone know what that SC40 ("PDP-10 clone") can do? It seems to support
SCSI I/O devices, interesting. What software, if any, might run on that?
paul
4:40 p.m.
On Aug 15, 2024, at 7:01 PM, Kevin Anderson via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
I am surprised they have the estimated opening bids amounts for the DEC PDP-10 systems,
as well as the IBM 7090, set so low. They can't be that numerous either. But then
again, still too costly for another museum to just pick them up.
Don't forget the "buyer's premium" -- if I remember right, the bid price
goes to the seller and another 25% on top of that goes to Christie's. And then
there's shipping...
paul
16 Aug
16 Aug
12:49 a.m.
Paul Koning wrote:
Does anyone know what that SC40 ("PDP-10
clone") can do? It seems to
support SCSI I/O devices, interesting. What software, if any, might
run on that?
It probably came from CompuServe, and it would have been running some
of CompuServe's software; user interface, database, I don't know.
7:37 a.m.
On Aug 16, 2024, at 3:49 AM, Lars Brinkhoff
<lars(a)nocrew.org> wrote:
Paul Koning wrote:
Yes, I believe the description says so. I was wondering if it could run any DEC software,
in particular any DEC OS. Or other interesting OS... ITS? :-)
paul
Does anyone know what that SC40 ("PDP-10
clone") can do? It seems to
support SCSI I/O devices, interesting. What software, if any, might
run on that?
It probably came from CompuServe, and it would have been running some
of CompuServe's software; user interface, database, I don't know.
9:11 a.m.
Paul Koning wrote:
They ran TOPS-20 and TOPS-10. CompuSeve used some heavily hacked TOPS-10.
I think they *could* run ITS if anyone cared to do the work to port it.
It probably
came from CompuServe, and it would have been running some
of CompuServe's software; user interface, database, I don't know.
Yes, I
believe the description says so. I was wondering if it could
run any DEC software, in particular any DEC OS. Or other interesting
OS... ITS? :-) 
15 Aug
15 Aug
6:39 p.m.
Eh, it will go for what it goes. Try and keep in mind how tough it was
to keep a 1010 running in 1995. Then add 30 years to that.
The thought of tracking down a bad flip flop on a thousand flip chip
boards really makes me think "yow".
CZ
On 8/15/2024 7:01 PM, Kevin Anderson via cctalk wrote:
I am surprised they have the estimated opening bids
amounts for the DEC PDP-10 systems, as well as the IBM 7090, set so low. They can't be
that numerous either. But then again, still too costly for another museum to just pick
them up.
I had selfishly hoped to see my donated mid-1980s Zenith PC clone and all of its
re-badged software (including Lotus 123 and MS Fortran and early DOS Word) included in one
of the clumped microcomputer collections, but alas it was not. Was probably chucked into a
rubbish bin for disposal a long time ago.
Kevin Anderson
Dubuque, Iowa
6:44 p.m.
On 2024-08-15 7:39 p.m., cz via cctalk wrote:
Eh, it will go for what it goes. Try and keep in mind
how tough it was
to keep a 1010 running in 1995. Then add 30 years to that.
The thought of tracking down a bad flip flop on a thousand flip chip
boards really makes me think "yow".
True, but back then things were designed to fixed and tested.
CZ
6:52 p.m.
True, but back then things were designed to fixed and
tested.
Sure, and they can still be fixed, transistors are quite common. But
after repairing a pair of pdp8/L's, and a pdp8/I I really have to say
it's a bit of a serious job. And the 10 is like..... a billion times
more stuff....
CZ
10:44 p.m.
On 2024-08-15 7:52 p.m., cz via cctalk wrote:
This list needs a good machine shop as well, for older I/O devices.
Or a least a parts list of spares.
Old computers I think had better doc's than today, that had real
information,
Ben.
True, but back
then things were designed to fixed and tested.
Sure, and they can still be fixed, transistors are quite common. But
after repairing a pair of pdp8/L's, and a pdp8/I I really have to say
it's a bit of a serious job. And the 10 is like..... a billion times
more stuff....
16 Aug
16 Aug
7:33 a.m.
On Aug 15, 2024, at 9:44 PM, ben via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 2024-08-15 7:39 p.m., cz via cctalk wrote:
Having the diagnostics available is critical for this. But yes, if you do then you're
right.
It takes me back to 1974, when our college 11/45 crashed and then failed hard early in the
reboot. Called DEC FS. While waiting for the tech to arrive, we (my classmate Josh Rosen
and I) ran CPU diagnostics. Turned up an MMU failure, failed bit in some CSR. Josh
grabbed the engineering drawings to find the data path in question, and pointed at one
chip, saying: "that one". I asked "why not one of the others?"
Answer: "because that's the most expensive chip in the path".
We told Jim Newport when he arrived what we found, including Josh's blaming a specific
chip. Jim said "we'll see". Soon after he grabbed his soldering iron and
spare chip box to replace -- yes indeed -- the specific chip Josh had pinpointed.
paul
Eh, it will go for what it goes. Try and keep in
mind how tough it was to keep a 1010 running in 1995. Then add 30 years to that.
The thought of tracking down a bad flip flop on a thousand flip chip boards really makes
me think "yow".
True, but back then things were designed to fixed and tested. 
9:44 a.m.
On Thu, Aug 15, 2024 at 4:01 PM Kevin Anderson via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
I am surprised they have the estimated opening bids
amounts for the DEC
PDP-10 systems, as well as the IBM 7090, set so low. They can't be that
numerous either. But then again, still too costly for another museum to
just pick them up.
Based on my experience with Christie's, it's because they have no idea what
they're doing, and they didn't bother to hire an expert to help them.
Sellam
10:18 a.m.
On 8/16/24 11:44, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:
On Thu, Aug 15, 2024 at 4:01 PM Kevin Anderson via
cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
The whole idea of auctions is to get people sucked in,
salivating over the "Deal" they might get, and then keep on
bidding it up! It is all a scam to trap the unsophisticated
enthusiast.
I think Christie's, and other auction houses DO know what
they are doing, and they do it very well.
Jon
I am surprised they have the estimated opening
bids amounts for the DEC
PDP-10 systems, as well as the IBM 7090, set so low. They can't be that
numerous either. But then again, still too costly for another museum to
just pick them up.
Based on my experience with Christie's, it's because they have no idea
what
they're doing, and they didn't bother to hire an expert to help them. 
2:02 p.m.
Such an incredible collection, wish I could have visited years ago in its
prime presentation. So many great artifacts, at least fairly certain
they'll go to good homes.
The LINC-8 and Micral-N in particular appeal to me - but I'm in no position
to bid on anything this year.
If anyone does know where those two items end up, look me up - maybe
someday they'll need yet another new home! Especially if they are in
possible working condition. IMO, electronics prior to 1975 become
exponentially harder to keep in working order.
Steve v*
On Fri, Aug 16, 2024 at 12:18 PM Jon Elson via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
On 8/16/24 11:44, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:
On Thu, Aug 15, 2024 at 4:01 PM Kevin Anderson
via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
what
I am surprised they have the estimated opening
bids amounts for the DEC
PDP-10 systems, as well as the IBM 7090, set so low. They can't be that
numerous either. But then again, still too costly for another museum to
just pick them up.
Based on my experience with Christie's, it's because they have no idea
they're doing, and they didn't bother to
hire an expert to help them.
The whole idea of auctions is to get people sucked in,
salivating over the "Deal" they might get, and then keep on
bidding it up! It is all a scam to trap the unsophisticated
enthusiast.
I think Christie's, and other auction houses DO know what
they are doing, and they do it very well.
Jon
17 Aug
17 Aug
4:17 p.m.
I still remember how amazing it was to watch the Linc-8 at VCF (west) 10
being troubleshot by previous developers. I swear I stood there (trying to
be out of the way) longer than most exhibits just in amazement how they
were looking at map size schematics and running test programs that still
felt like futuristic science fiction.
In unrelated news, I saw the auction has been posted to slashdot :scream:.
Not sure if there is still the slashdot effect but many more potential
bidders will be eying the auction now.
On Fri, Aug 16, 2024, 5:18 PM Steve Lewis via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
Such an incredible collection, wish I could have
visited years ago in its
prime presentation. So many great artifacts, at least fairly certain
they'll go to good homes.
The LINC-8 and Micral-N in particular appeal to me - but I'm in no position
to bid on anything this year.
If anyone does know where those two items end up, look me up - maybe
someday they'll need yet another new home! Especially if they are in
possible working condition. IMO, electronics prior to 1975 become
exponentially harder to keep in working order.
Steve v*
4:34 p.m.
Word got around. Most aren’t gonna bid because of price but they’ll watch prices because a
lot of people have the same systems. After this auction, you’ll see a bunch of stuff on
eBay had even more astronomical prices than they’re currently asking.
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 17, 2024, at 16:17, John Herron via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
I still remember how amazing it was to watch the Linc-8 at VCF (west) 10
being troubleshot by previous developers. I swear I stood there (trying to
be out of the way) longer than most exhibits just in amazement how they
were looking at map size schematics and running test programs that still
felt like futuristic science fiction.
In unrelated news, I saw the auction has been posted to slashdot :scream:.
Not sure if there is still the slashdot effect but many more potential
bidders will be eying the auction now.
> On Fri, Aug 16, 2024, 5:18 PM Steve Lewis via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
> wrote:
>
> Such an incredible collection, wish I could have visited years ago in its
> prime presentation. So many great artifacts, at least fairly certain
> they'll go to good homes.
>
> The LINC-8 and Micral-N in particular appeal to me - but I'm in no position
> to bid on anything this year.
>
> If anyone does know where those two items end up, look me up - maybe
> someday they'll need yet another new home! Especially if they are in
> possible working condition. IMO, electronics prior to 1975 become
> exponentially harder to keep in working order.
>
> Steve v*
>
23 Aug
23 Aug
6:23 a.m.
On Aug 17, 2024, at 7:17 PM, John Herron via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
I still remember how amazing it was to watch the Linc-8 at VCF (west) 10
being troubleshot by previous developers. I swear I stood there (trying to
be out of the way) longer than most exhibits just in amazement how they
were looking at map size schematics and running test programs that still
felt like futuristic science fiction.
That reminds me of the PDP-11 20th anniversary event at DECUS (in New Orleans, I think)
where we (RSTS team) brought in an 11/05 and tried to get it to run RSTS-11 V4A. The
machine was having trouble, including a DECtape that was acting very strangely indeed.
At one point Tom Stockebrand walked by and glanced at the system. Then he looked more
closely, inspecting the indicator lights on the DECtape drive. Then he commented
"wait... that should not be possible!" I think he spent a while helping debug
the machine. In the end I think we had it running a "blinkenlights" loop since
it couldn't boot a full OS. But it was neat to have the white-haired inventor of
DECtape help us with that machine.
paul
7:49 a.m.
Doug,
I will call Sallam in a little bit.
Thank you,
Mike
On 8/23/2024 8:23 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
On Aug 17, 2024, at 7:17 PM, John Herron via
cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
I still remember how amazing it was to watch the Linc-8 at VCF (west) 10
being troubleshot by previous developers. I swear I stood there (trying to
be out of the way) longer than most exhibits just in amazement how they
were looking at map size schematics and running test programs that still
felt like futuristic science fiction.
That reminds me of the PDP-11 20th
anniversary event at DECUS (in New Orleans, I think) where we (RSTS team) brought in an
11/05 and tried to get it to run RSTS-11 V4A. The machine was having trouble, including a
DECtape that was acting very strangely indeed.
At one point Tom Stockebrand walked by and glanced at the system. Then he looked more
closely, inspecting the indicator lights on the DECtape drive. Then he commented
"wait... that should not be possible!" I think he spent a while helping debug
the machine. In the end I think we had it running a "blinkenlights" loop since
it couldn't boot a full OS. But it was neat to have the white-haired inventor of
DECtape help us with that machine.
paul
16 Aug
16 Aug
9:13 p.m.
On Fri, Aug 16, 2024 at 10:18 AM Jon Elson via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
On 8/16/24 11:44, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:
You are giving them far too much credit :)
Sellam
On Thu, Aug 15, 2024 at 4:01 PM Kevin Anderson
via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
what
I am surprised they have the estimated opening
bids amounts for the DEC
PDP-10 systems, as well as the IBM 7090, set so low. They can't be that
numerous either. But then again, still too costly for another museum to
just pick them up.
Based on my experience with Christie's, it's because they have no idea
they're doing, and they didn't bother to
hire an expert to help them.
The whole idea of auctions is to get people sucked in,
salivating over the "Deal" they might get, and then keep on
bidding it up! It is all a scam to trap the unsophisticated
enthusiast.
I think Christie's, and other auction houses DO know what
they are doing, and they do it very well.
Jon
17 Aug
17 Aug
7:33 a.m.
On 8/16/24 23:13, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:
On Fri, Aug 16, 2024 at 10:18 AM Jon Elson via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
Well, in this specific market niche, maybe, but I think the
big auction houses know how to hook "collectors" of all
flavors in, and get insane prices for items. They know how
to make hype and buzz.
Jon
On 8/16/24 11:44, Sellam Abraham via cctalk
wrote:
You are giving them far too much credit :)
On Thu, Aug 15, 2024 at 4:01 PM Kevin Anderson
via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
what
I am surprised they have the estimated opening
bids amounts for the DEC
PDP-10 systems, as well as the IBM 7090, set so low. They can't be that
numerous either. But then again, still too costly for another museum to
just pick them up.
Based on my experience with Christie's, it's because they have no idea
they're doing, and they didn't bother to
hire an expert to help them.
The whole idea of auctions is to get people sucked
in,
salivating over the "Deal" they might get, and then keep on
bidding it up! It is all a scam to trap the unsophisticated
enthusiast.
I think Christie's, and other auction houses DO know what
they are doing, and they do it very well.
Jon
11:51 a.m.
I think this sale might propel computer collecting into a parallel market now occupied by
car collectors.
In car collecting, not all cars are classic collectibles, but are worth more than scrap
value because of condition, hobbyist wanting to fix up or maybe sentimentality. Think a
Volkswagen bug for example. People buy those for various reasons.
The classic cars that command big money are traded among very well-To-do collectors.
I think Christies may be trying to duplicate the collectable car market with collectable
computers.
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 17, 2024, at 07:33, Jon Elson via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 8/16/24 23:13, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:
Well, in this specific market niche, maybe, but I think the big auction houses
know how to hook "collectors" of all flavors in, and get insane prices for
items. They know how to make hype and buzz.
Jon
On Fri,
Aug 16, 2024 at 10:18 AM Jon Elson via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
On 8/16/24 11:44, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:
You are giving them far too much credit :)
On Thu, Aug 15, 2024 at 4:01 PM Kevin Anderson
via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
> I am surprised they have the estimated opening bids amounts for the DEC
> PDP-10 systems, as well as the IBM 7090, set so low. They can't be that
> numerous either. But then again, still too costly for another museum to
> just pick them up.
>
Based on my experience with Christie's, it's because they have no idea
what
they're doing, and they didn't bother to
hire an expert to help them.
The whole idea of auctions is to get people sucked in,
salivating over the "Deal" they might get, and then keep on
bidding it up! It is all a scam to trap the unsophisticated
enthusiast.
I think Christie's, and other auction houses DO know what
they are doing, and they do it very well.
Jon
23 Aug
23 Aug
5:07 a.m.
On Mon, Aug 19, 2024 at 5:28 AM Wayne S via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
I think this sale might propel computer collecting
into a parallel market now occupied by car collectors.
In car collecting, not all cars are classic collectibles, but are worth more than scrap
value because of condition, hobbyist wanting to fix up or maybe sentimentality. Think a
Volkswagen bug for example. People buy those for various reasons.
The classic cars that command big money are traded among very well-To-do collectors.
I think Christies may be trying to duplicate the collectable car market with collectable
computers.
I think we getting to that point and to show this I have the link for
RR Auctions collection that closed yesterday and look at the sales
numbers.
https://www.rrauction.com/auctions/auction-details/698?page=2&itemQty=9…
I'm intrigued by the magazines being graded now. I think I'm one of
the few who enjoy the magazines and so seeing them graded and sold is
odd to me.
I have been talking to people out ticket the vintage computer
community who happen to like old technology and with money to spend.
They have taken an interest in the hobby and are dropping good money
on things they want.
What I don't think we have yet is many of the speculators that the
classic car hobby has.
5:32 a.m.
On Fri, Aug 23, 2024 at 8:07 AM Christian Liendo via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Mon, Aug 19, 2024 at 5:28 AM Wayne S via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
I think we getting to that point and to show this I have the link for
RR Auctions collection that closed yesterday and look at the sales
numbers.
https://www.rrauction.com/auctions/auction-details/698?page=2&itemQty=9…
I'm intrigued by the magazines being graded now. I think I'm one of
the few who enjoy the magazines and so seeing them graded and sold is
odd to me.
I have been talking to people out ticket the vintage computer
community who happen to like old technology and with money to spend.
They have taken an interest in the hobby and are dropping good money
on things they want.
What I don't think we have yet is many of the speculators that the
classic car hobby has.
$3400 for the premier issue of Mac World? Who would pay that much for this?
Bill
I think this sale might propel computer
collecting into a parallel
market now occupied by car collectors.
In car collecting, not all cars are classic
collectibles, but are worth
more than scrap value because of condition, hobbyist wanting to fix up or
maybe sentimentality. Think a Volkswagen bug for example. People buy those
for various reasons.
The classic cars that command big money are
traded among very well-To-do
collectors.
I think Christies may be trying to duplicate the
collectable car market
with collectable computers.
11:24 a.m.
The moneyed collector world is a lot different than us people who collect and like to fix
and see things run again.
The reason that item sold for that high a price is because the buyer “could afford to pay
that price”. In other words “because i can”.
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 23, 2024, at 05:33, Bill Degnan via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Fri, Aug 23, 2024 at 8:07 AM Christian Liendo via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
I think we getting to that point and to show this I have the link for
RR Auctions collection that closed yesterday and look at the sales
numbers.
https://www.rrauction.com/auctions/auction-details/698?page=2&itemQty=9…
I'm intrigued by the magazines being graded now. I think I'm one of
the few who enjoy the magazines and so seeing them graded and sold is
odd to me.
I have been talking to people out ticket the vintage computer
community who happen to like old technology and with money to spend.
They have taken an interest in the hobby and are dropping good money
on things they want.
What I don't think we have yet is many of the speculators that the
classic car hobby has.
$3400 for the premier issue of Mac World? Who would pay that much for this?
Bill
On Mon,
Aug 19, 2024 at 5:28 AM Wayne S via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
I think this sale might propel computer collecting into a parallel
market now occupied by car collectors.
In car collecting, not all cars are classic
collectibles, but are worth
more than scrap value because of condition, hobbyist wanting to fix up or
maybe sentimentality. Think a Volkswagen bug for example. People buy those
for various reasons.
The classic cars that command big money are
traded among very well-To-do
collectors.
I think Christies may be trying to duplicate the
collectable car market
with collectable computers.
27 Aug
27 Aug
7:10 a.m.
On Fri, Aug 23, 2024, 5:33 AM Bill Degnan via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
wrote:
$3400 for the premier issue of Mac World? Who would pay that much for
this?
Bill
That's pretty much what I'm thinking for the vast majority of this stuff.
The Altair 8800 issue of Poptronics sold for arounda K.
A lot of this stuff can be found on eBay at any given time for anywhere
from10 to 50 cents on the RR Auction dollar.
Sellam
9:13 a.m.
I do have a 1975 Byte#1 issue magazine unopened in its original Byte
mailing paper wrap.
Should be worth a few more pennies to read this issue for the first
time. Or should I ?
On 27.08.2024 15:10, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:
On Fri, Aug 23, 2024, 5:33 AM Bill Degnan via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
$3400 for the premier issue of Mac World? Who
would pay that much for
this?
Bill
That's pretty much what I'm thinking for the vast majority of this stuff.
The Altair 8800 issue of Poptronics sold for arounda K.
A lot of this stuff can be found on eBay at any given time for anywhere
from10 to 50 cents on the RR Auction dollar.
Sellam
9:30 a.m.
I once had a copy of the very first byte magazine, personally handed to
me by the original publisher, Wayne Green, W2NSD, as I had just signed
up for a one-year subscription.
I hesitated to sign up for a year because Wayne had two previous
magazine failures, RPT magazine and FM magazine.
Apparently it was third time lucky for him!
cheers,
Nigel
On 2024-08-27 12:13, osi.superboard via cctalk wrote:
I do have a 1975 Byte#1 issue magazine unopened in its
original Byte
mailing paper wrap.
Should be worth a few more pennies to read this issue for the first
time. Or should I ?
On 27.08.2024 15:10, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 23, 2024, 5:33 AM Bill Degnan via cctalk
> <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
> wrote:
>
>> $3400 for the premier issue of Mac World? Who would pay that much for
>> this?
>> Bill
>>
> That's pretty much what I'm thinking for the vast majority of this
> stuff.
> The Altair 8800 issue of Poptronics sold for arounda K.
>
> A lot of this stuff can be found on eBay at any given time for anywhere
> from10 to 50 cents on the RR Auction dollar.
>
> Sellam
>
--
Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype: TILBURY2591
10:28 a.m.
Keep it wrapped and sell it. You can read it online.
Sellam
On Tue, Aug 27, 2024, 9:39 AM osi.superboard via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
I do have a 1975 Byte#1 issue magazine unopened in its
original Byte
mailing paper wrap.
Should be worth a few more pennies to read this issue for the first
time. Or should I ?
On 27.08.2024 15:10, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:
On Fri, Aug 23, 2024, 5:33 AM Bill Degnan via
cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
$3400 for the premier issue of Mac World? Who
would pay that much for
this?
Bill
That's pretty much what I'm thinking for the vast majority of this
stuff.
The Altair 8800 issue of Poptronics sold for arounda K.
A lot of this stuff can be found on eBay at any given time for anywhere
from10 to 50 cents on the RR Auction dollar.
Sellam
11:04 a.m.
Keep it preserved somewhere.
Out of sunlight and maybe in a container of some sort. Might want to consult a museum
about preservation. Is the market hot for publications?
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 27, 2024, at 10:29, Sellam Abraham via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Keep it wrapped and sell it. You can read it online.
Sellam
> On Tue, Aug 27, 2024, 9:39 AM osi.superboard via cctalk <
> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> I do have a 1975 Byte#1 issue magazine unopened in its original Byte
> mailing paper wrap.
>
> Should be worth a few more pennies to read this issue for the first
> time. Or should I ?
>
>
>> On 27.08.2024 15:10, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:
>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2024, 5:33 AM Bill Degnan via cctalk <
> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> $3400 for the premier issue of Mac World? Who would pay that much for
>>> this?
>>> Bill
>>>
>> That's pretty much what I'm thinking for the vast majority of this
stuff.
>> The Altair 8800 issue of Poptronics sold for arounda K.
>>
>> A lot of this stuff can be found on eBay at any given time for anywhere
>> from10 to 50 cents on the RR Auction dollar.
>>
>> Sellam
>>
>
28 Aug
28 Aug
12:39 p.m.
Fool me once... (Jk but ironic museum suggestion given the subject).
On Tue, Aug 27, 2024, 1:14 PM Wayne S via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
Keep it preserved somewhere.
Out of sunlight and maybe in a container of some sort. Might want to
consult a museum about preservation. Is the market hot for publications?
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 27, 2024, at 10:29, Sellam Abraham via
cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Keep it wrapped and sell it. You can read it online.
Sellam
> On Tue, Aug 27, 2024, 9:39 AM osi.superboard via cctalk <
> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> I do have a 1975 Byte#1 issue magazine unopened in its original Byte
> mailing paper wrap.
>
> Should be worth a few more pennies to read this issue for the first
> time. Or should I ?
29 Aug
29 Aug
2:14 a.m.
Unfortunately, museums are no longer a safe place for donated and rare
artifacts. Paul Allen's heirs just want to keep their $17 billion for
themselves.
See Paul Allen’s Living Computers: Museum article.
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/paul-allens-living-computers-muse…
On 28.08.2024 20:39, John Herron via cctalk wrote:
Fool me once... (Jk but ironic museum suggestion given
the subject).
On Tue, Aug 27, 2024, 1:14 PM Wayne S via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
> Keep it preserved somewhere.
> Out of sunlight and maybe in a container of some sort. Might want to
> consult a museum about preservation. Is the market hot for publications?
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Aug 27, 2024, at 10:29, Sellam Abraham via cctalk <
> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
>> Keep it wrapped and sell it. You can read it online.
>>
>> Sellam
>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 27, 2024, 9:39 AM osi.superboard via cctalk <
>>> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> I do have a 1975 Byte#1 issue magazine unopened in its original Byte
>>> mailing paper wrap.
>>>
>>> Should be worth a few more pennies to read this issue for the first
>>> time. Or should I ?
5:11 a.m.
Unfortunately, museums are no longer a safe place for
donated and rare
artifacts. Paul Allen's heirs just want to keep their $17 billion for
themselves.
Never have been. If there is one thing in life I have learned it's that
the purpose of a museum is not to preserve history.
The purpose of a museum is to destroy history.
Oh the reasons are good: History will be preserved, culture will be
remembered, artifacts will no longer sit in the dirt. But throughout
history, from the Library of Alexandria to the museums of kings to the
Middle Ages, people would pile all of their art, culture, and works into
nice compact buildings.
Then when the ignorant mobs come they have a single place to torch to
remove the heresy and treason counter to the current "beliefs". And it's
all gone.
Think about ISIS, think about what happened in Iraq, think about the
LCM, the Boston Computer Museum, and all of that. Sad but when you find
an artifact in the ground the best thing you can do for it is to cover
it up and forget it existed....
C
See Paul Allen’s Living Computers: Museum article.
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/paul-allens-living-computers-muse…
On 28.08.2024 20:39, John Herron via cctalk wrote:
> Fool me once... (Jk but ironic museum suggestion given the subject).
>
> On Tue, Aug 27, 2024, 1:14 PM Wayne S via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Keep it preserved somewhere.
>> Out of sunlight and maybe in a container of some sort. Might want to
>> consult a museum about preservation. Is the market hot for publications?
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Aug 27, 2024, at 10:29, Sellam Abraham via cctalk <
>> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>> Keep it wrapped and sell it. You can read it online.
>>>
>>> Sellam
>>>
>>>> On Tue, Aug 27, 2024, 9:39 AM osi.superboard via cctalk <
>>>> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I do have a 1975 Byte#1 issue magazine unopened in its original Byte
>>>> mailing paper wrap.
>>>>
>>>> Should be worth a few more pennies to read this issue for the first
>>>> time. Or should I ?
6:44 a.m.
On 8/29/2024 8:11 AM, cz via cctalk wrote:
And let's not forget libraries. I donated a book (Theological
Subject, another of my degree concentrations not computer related)
to the University library where I worked. It lasted about 5 years
before it was no longer on the shelf or in the card catalog.
bill
Unfortunately,
museums are no longer a safe place for donated and rare
artifacts. Paul Allen's heirs just want to keep their $17 billion for
themselves.
Never have been. If there is one thing in life I have learned it's that
the purpose of a museum is not to preserve history.
The purpose of a museum is to destroy history.
7:24 a.m.
On Aug 29, 2024, at 9:44 AM, Bill Gunshannon via
cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 8/29/2024 8:11 AM, cz via cctalk wrote:
And let's not forget libraries. I donated a book (Theological
Subject, another of my degree concentrations not computer related)
to the University library where I worked. It lasted about 5 years before it was no
longer on the shelf or in the card catalog.
Indeed, the risk with these organizations isn't merely outside pillagers, but inside
jobs. If you donate something, the museum will do with it what they want, including
throwing it away if they feel like it. And if you have contractual restrictions in place,
it's anyone's guess whether any court will enforce those. Precedent (in the USA
at least) suggests that courts can be swayed by snow jobs from museums to set aside the
plain English wording of donor terms.
A loan is a whole lot safer, though even then you have to worry about damage to the item.
I know of a case where a classic computer was lent to a museum and came back after the
museum canceled the loan, with one of its core modules missing. By curious coincidence, a
core module exactly like that one appeared as a separate item "from an anonymous
donor" in the museum's collection around that time.
paul
Unfortunately, museums are no longer a safe place for donated and rare artifacts. Paul
Allen's heirs just want to keep their $17 billion for themselves.
Never have
been. If there is one thing in life I have learned it's that the purpose of a museum
is not to preserve history.
The purpose of a museum is to destroy history.
6:55 a.m.
On Thu, Aug 29, 2024, 5:12 AM cz via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Then when the ignorant mobs come they have a single place to torch to
remove the heresy and treason counter to the current "beliefs". And it's
all gone.
...visions of the Computer History Museum being sacked by Mostly Peaceful
protestors with the restored PDP-1 rolled off into the night by hooded
teens, never to be seen again.
Sellam
7:45 a.m.
At 07:11 AM 8/29/2024, cz via cctalk wrote:
The purpose of a museum is to destroy history.
Ridiculous. Do the math. If there was a computer so magical and historically
significant because only 100 of them were made, and 95 of them were scrapped long
ago by individual and corporate owners, and one made it into a "museum,"
why aren't you equally blaming the people who tossed the 95? At least
the museum tried to save it.
- John
8:48 a.m.
On Aug 29, 2024, at 10:45 AM, John Foust via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
At 07:11 AM 8/29/2024, cz via cctalk wrote:
Did it, though? The attempt may have been made by the collector who donated it, and the
museum may be the one who reneged on the commitment to preserve.
paul
The purpose of a museum is to destroy history.
Ridiculous. Do the math. If there was a computer so magical and historically
significant because only 100 of them were made, and 95 of them were scrapped long
ago by individual and corporate owners, and one made it into a "museum,"
why aren't you equally blaming the people who tossed the 95? At least
the museum tried to save it.
9:03 a.m.
Unless the museum has an large enough endowment to take care of itself
and grow it will fail.
I'm sure even the Smithsonian discards items that is can no longer
afford to house. And that is after it has sat in storage for years.
Whether publicly, privately or government funded expenses and the need
for space and man power always increase.
Maybe we need a new law, we will call it Allen's law and it is directly
related to Moore's law. As computers become obsolete faster and faster
the space, time and money to preserve them increases respectively.
On 8/29/2024 10:48 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
On Aug 29, 2024, at 10:45 AM, John Foust via
cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
At 07:11 AM 8/29/2024, cz via cctalk wrote:
Did it, though? The attempt may have been made by
the collector who donated it, and the museum may be the one who reneged on the commitment
to preserve.
paul
The purpose of a museum is to destroy history.
Ridiculous. Do the math. If there was a computer so magical and historically
significant because only 100 of them were made, and 95 of them were scrapped long
ago by individual and corporate owners, and one made it into a "museum,"
why aren't you equally blaming the people who tossed the 95? At least
the museum tried to save it. 
9:24 a.m.
I used to think museums were the only right place for historic items, and despite being a
collector myself, I used to kind of not love things disappearing into private
collections. But I realize now private collections are a fairly efficient, cost effective
and safe way for things to be preserved. Museums often end up storing a lot of what they
have anyway so it's not like it's any more accessible. Plus with private
collections artifacts are distributed all over the place, so things survive despite
disasters here and there.Sent from my Galaxy
-------- Original message --------From: Mike Katz via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Date: 2024-08-29 9:04 a.m. (GMT-08:00) To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and
Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Cc: Mike Katz
<bitwiz(a)12bitsbest.com> Subject: [cctalk] Re: LCM auction Unless the museum has an
large enough endowment to take care of itself and grow it will fail.I'm sure even the
Smithsonian discards items that is can no longer afford to house. And that is after it
has sat in storage for years.Whether publicly, privately or government funded expenses and
the need for space and man power always increase.Maybe we need a new law, we will call it
Allen's law and it is directly related to Moore's law. As computers become
obsolete faster and faster the space, time and money to preserve them increases
respectively.On 8/29/2024 10:48 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:>>> On Aug 29,
2024, at 10:45 AM, John Foust via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:>>>> At 07:11 AM 8/29/2024, cz via cctalk wrote:>>> The purpose
of a museum is to destroy history.>> Ridiculous. Do the math. If there was a
computer so magical and historically>> significant because only 100 of them were
made, and 95 of them were scrapped long>> ago by individual and corporate owners,
and one made it into a "museum,">> why aren't you equally blaming the
people who tossed the 95? At least>> the museum tried to save it.> Did it,
though? The attempt may have been made by the collector who donated it, and the museum
may be the one who reneged on the commitment to preserve.>> paul>
28 Aug
28 Aug
11:49 a.m.
On 8/27/2024 10:10 AM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:
On Fri, Aug 23, 2024, 5:33 AM Bill Degnan via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
And who would pay a million for a Superman Comic?
At lest computer magazines (well, some of them) have real content
with real value. Even if nowhere near $3400,
bill
$3400 for the premier issue of Mac World? Who would pay that much for
this?
Bill
That's pretty much what I'm thinking for the vast majority of this stuff.
The Altair 8800 issue of Poptronics sold for arounda K.
A lot of this stuff can be found on eBay at any given time for anywhere
from10 to 50 cents on the RR Auction dollar.
12:31 p.m.
I would because in 5 years i could sell it for 2 million!
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 28, 2024, at 11:49, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 8/27/2024 10:10 AM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk
wrote:
And who would pay a million for a Superman Comic?
At lest computer magazines (well, some of them) have real content
with real value. Even if nowhere near $3400,
bill
On Fri, Aug 23, 2024, 5:33 AM Bill Degnan via
cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
$3400 for the premier issue of Mac World? Who would pay that much for
this?
Bill
That's pretty much what I'm thinking for the vast majority of this
stuff.
The Altair 8800 issue of Poptronics sold for arounda K.
A lot of this stuff can be found on eBay at any given time for anywhere
from10 to 50 cents on the RR Auction dollar.
29 Aug
29 Aug
9:27 a.m.
The solution is right in front of us. One of us here has to become a
multi-billionaire and create a museum to save all this stuff! Let the
fighting and bickering begin!
Any ideas on how to become a billionaire?
Doug
10:15 a.m.
Any ideas on
how to become a billionaire?
The joke doesn't work as well this way, but the old Texas joke
was "how do you become a Texas oil millionaire? Start by being
a Texas oil billionaire."
11:46 a.m.
Speaking of Bill Gates, does anyone know if he collects?
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 29, 2024, at 11:11, ben via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 2024-08-29 11:59 a.m., Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
it is called TAX!
Any ideas
on how to become a billionaire?
For a few decades, we have been saying that
"We must do whatever it takes to make Bill Gates into a millionaire."
11:55 a.m.
Yes, he collects money.
Sellam
On Thu, Aug 29, 2024, 11:54 AM Wayne S via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
Speaking of Bill Gates, does anyone know if he
collects?
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 29, 2024, at 11:11, ben via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 2024-08-29 11:59 a.m., Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
it is called TAX!
Any ideas
on how to become a billionaire?
For a few decades, we have been saying that
"We must do whatever it takes to make Bill Gates into a millionaire."
11:56 a.m.
I know and he’s good at it!
Besides money though.
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 29, 2024, at 11:55, Sellam Abraham <sellam.ismail(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, he collects money.
Sellam
On Thu, Aug 29, 2024, 11:54 AM Wayne S via cctalk
<cctalk@classiccmp.org<mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote:
Speaking of Bill Gates, does anyone know if he collects?
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 29, 2024, at 11:11, ben via cctalk
<cctalk@classiccmp.org<mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote:
On 2024-08-29 11:59 a.m., Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
it is called TAX!
Any ideas
on how to become a billionaire?
For a few decades, we have been saying that
"We must do whatever it takes to make Bill Gates into a millionaire."
11:58 a.m.
On 08/29/2024 2:56 PM EDT Wayne S via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
I know and he’s good at it!
Besides money though.
Sent from my iPhone
politicians
On Aug 29, 2024, at 11:55, Sellam Abraham
<sellam.ismail(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, he collects money.
Sellam
On Thu, Aug 29, 2024, 11:54 AM Wayne S via cctalk
<cctalk@classiccmp.org<mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote:
Speaking of Bill Gates, does anyone know if he collects?
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 29, 2024, at 11:11, ben via cctalk
<cctalk@classiccmp.org<mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote:
> On 2024-08-29 11:59 a.m., Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
> >> Any ideas on how to become a billionaire?
> > For a few decades, we have been saying that
> > "We must do whatever it takes to make Bill Gates into a
millionaire."
> it is called TAX!
>
Grownups never understand anything by themselves and it is tiresome for children to be
always and forever explaining things to them,
Antoine de Saint-Exupery in The Little Prince
4 p.m.
Hasn't he promised to give his money away...
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: Sellam Abraham via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2024 7:55 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Cc: Wayne S <wayne.sudol(a)hotmail.com>om>; Sellam Abraham
<sellam.ismail(a)gmail.com>
Subject: [cctalk] Re: LCM auction
Yes, he collects money.
Sellam
On Thu, Aug 29, 2024, 11:54 AM Wayne S via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
Speaking of Bill Gates, does anyone know if he
collects?
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 29, 2024, at 11:11, ben via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
> >
> > On 2024-08-29 11:59 a.m., Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
> >>> Any ideas on how to become a billionaire?
> >> For a few decades, we have been saying that "We must do whatever it
> >> takes to make Bill Gates into a millionaire."
> > it is called TAX!
> >
> >
> 
4:21 p.m.
On Fri, 30 Aug 2024, Dave Wade G4UGM via cctalk wrote:
Hasn't he promised to give his money away...
Yes
He is a follower of Carnegie. Ruthlessly make an enormous amount of
money, and then "buy your way into heaven" by doing good deeds with a
large part of the money. Look at the Carnegie libraries.
'course, once you are a MULTI-billionairs, you can give a billion to
worthy charities, and still be obscenely rich.
"Brewster's Millions" (both the original and the Richard Pryor/John Candy
remake) are about the difficulty of spending more than a certain amount.
It's probably kinda expensive to put a tracking chip into every vaccine, .
. . :-)
'course, once every Windows, Apple, and Android machines stay connected to
the interwebs, all of the tracking data is already there.
It's not worth the storage to keep tracking data of CP/M and TRSDOS.
4:50 p.m.
On Aug 29, 2024, at 7:21 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Aug 2024, Dave Wade G4UGM via cctalk wrote:
In an earlier century, those schemes were called "indulgences" and were one of
the main causes of the Reformation.
paul
Hasn't he promised to give his money away...
Yes
He is a follower of Carnegie. Ruthlessly make an enormous amount of money, and then
"buy your way into heaven" by doing good deeds with a large part of the money.
Look at the Carnegie libraries.
5:01 p.m.
Hasn't he promised to give his money away...
Yes
He is a follower of Carnegie. Ruthlessly make an enormous amount of money, and then
"buy your way into heaven" by doing good deeds with a large part of the money.
Look at the Carnegie libraries. In an earlier century, those schemes were called
"indulgences" and were one of the main causes of the Reformation.
Martin Luther's post on the church door was, of course, completely
inadequate to put an end to indulgences.
And there are other sorts of them still being created. "Solar Renewable
Energy Certificates" seem like an indulgence market.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
5:33 p.m.
And then there's the story in the bible about Jesus throwing the people
selling indulgences (and other things) out of the temple?😮
That kind of thing has been going on for thousands of years. It
predates Catholicism but became a part of the Catholic Church in the
11th and 12 centuries.
This is not intended to start a theological discussion in any way shape
or form. I was just mentioning that buying your salvation has been a
part of mankind for a long time.
On 8/29/2024 7:01 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
On Thu, 29 Aug
2024, Paul Koning wrote:
Hasn't he
promised to give his money away...
Yes
He is a follower of Carnegie. Ruthlessly make an enormous amount of
money, and then "buy your way into heaven" by doing good deeds with
a large part of the money. Look at the Carnegie libraries. In an earlier century, those schemes were called
"indulgences" and
were one of the main causes of the Reformation.
Martin Luther's post on the church door was, of course, completely
inadequate to put an end to indulgences.
And there are other sorts of them still being created. "Solar
Renewable Energy Certificates" seem like an indulgence market.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
6:21 p.m.
Carnegie (and Gates) were only figuratively "buying their way into
heaven". I don't think that either did it for religious reasons.
Although most would assume that it is a religious issue, that was not my
intent. The specific example that I gave is non-religious.
"I have learned that no good can ever come from starting a discussion of
politics, religion, or the Great Pumpkin." - Linus
We have our own non-theological religious wars, such as vi vs emacs.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
On Thu, 29 Aug 2024, Mike Katz wrote:
> And then there's the story in the bible about Jesus throwing the people
> selling indulgences (and other things) out of the temple?😮
>
> That kind of thing has been going on for thousands of years. It predates
> Catholicism but became a part of the Catholic Church in the 11th and 12
> centuries.
>
> This is not intended to start a theological discussion in any way shape or
> form. I was just mentioning that buying your salvation has been a part of
> mankind for a long time.
>
> On 8/29/2024 7:01 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
>>>>> Hasn't he promised to give his money away...
>>>>
>>>> Yes
>>>> He is a follower of Carnegie. Ruthlessly make an enormous amount of
>>>> money, and then "buy your way into heaven" by doing good deeds
with a
>>>> large part of the money. Look at the Carnegie libraries.
>>>
>> On Thu, 29 Aug 2024, Paul Koning wrote:
>>> In an earlier century, those schemes were called "indulgences" and
were
>>> one of the main causes of the Reformation.
>>
>> Martin Luther's post on the church door was, of course, completely
>> inadequate to put an end to indulgences.
>>
>> And there are other sorts of them still being created. "Solar Renewable
>> Energy Certificates" seem like an indulgence market.
>>
>> --
>> Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
6:50 p.m.
On 8/29/24 18:21, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
[snip]
We have our own non-theological religious wars, such as vi vs emacs.
Now you've done it ;)
--
Christian Kennedy, Ph.D.
chris(a)mainecoon.com AF6AP | DB00000692 | PG00029419
http://www.mainecoon.com PGP KeyID 108DAB97
PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97
"Mr. McKittrick, after careful consideration…"
11:09 p.m.
I vote for cat.
Julf
On 30/08/2024 04:02, cz via cctalk wrote:
ED!
ED MAN!
MAN ED!
Ed is the standard text editor......
On 8/29/2024 9:50 PM, Christian Kennedy via cctalk wrote:
>
> On 8/29/24 18:21, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
>
> [snip]
>>
>> We have our own non-theological religious wars, such as vi vs emacs.
>
> Now you've done it ;)
>
7:38 p.m.
On Thu, Aug 29, 2024, 6:29 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
We have our own non-theological religious wars, such as vi vs emacs.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
Apple II vs. IBM PC vs. Commodore 64 vs. Atari 800 vs Radio Shack TRS-80
vs...
Sellam
7:48 p.m.
> We have our own non-theological religious wars,
such as vi vs emacs.
On Thu, 29 Aug 2024, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:
Apple II vs. IBM PC vs. Commodore 64 vs. Atari 800 vs
Radio Shack TRS-80
vs...
DOSPLUS vs NEWDOS-80
Electric Pencil vs. Scripsit
Pre-CP/M Electric Pencil vs TRS80 release vs Pennington versions (including PC)
. . .
30 Aug
30 Aug
9:20 a.m.
On Thursday, August 29th, 2024 at 18:21, Fred Cisin via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
We have our own non-theological religious wars, such
as vi vs emacs.
edlin.
<grin/duck>
The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415/510]
WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/
Don't be mean. You don't have to be mean.
1:37 p.m.
I did use it, in my first job. Sometimes have an urge to go back to it but
I seem to be too lazy.
$$
On Fri, Aug 30, 2024 at 8:34 PM ben via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
On 2024-08-30 12:00 p.m., Don Stalkowski via cctalk
wrote:
Does anybody use that any more?
Fred
Cisin wrote:
TECO
Don
We have our own non-theological religious wars,
such as vi vs emacs.
2:53 p.m.
New subject: TECO Was: LCM auction
I used it at my first job — writing DIBOL applications. We used the KED (?) macros with
VT52s to get screen editor functionality. I still have one of those keypad condoms. I
s’pose now that I have a PiPD-10 I should see if TECO and KED still feel good enough to
use.
Mostly nowadays I use vi or macOS TextEdit.app—I was never infected with emacs.
—Milo
On Aug 30, 2024, at 3:37 PM, Adrian Godwin via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
I did use it, in my first job. Sometimes have an urge to go back to it but
I seem to be too lazy.
$$
On Fri, Aug 30, 2024 at 8:34 PM ben via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
> On 2024-08-30 12:00 p.m., Don Stalkowski via cctalk wrote:
>>> Fred Cisin wrote:
>>>
>>>> We have our own non-theological religious wars, such as vi vs emacs.
>>>
>>
>> TECO
>>
>> Don
> Does anybody use that any more?
>
>
>
2:02 p.m.
On Aug 30, 2024, at 3:26 PM, ben via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 2024-08-30 12:00 p.m., Don Stalkowski via cctalk wrote:
Does anybody use that any more?
Yes, I do. I even have a version implemented in Python for use on platforms that
can't run the original. (The Python version has the neat property that it can edit
Unicode text...)
paul
Fred
Cisin wrote:
TECO
Don We have our own non-theological religious wars,
such as vi vs emacs.
9:06 p.m.
We can unsubscribe?
No -Once you give your email over, it's there forever :-)
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: doug(a)doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net
On Fri, 30 Aug 2024 at 13:49, Glen Slick via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Help. Unsubscibe. Jane, get me off this crazy list.
9:18 a.m.
On Thursday, August 29th, 2024 at 16:21, Fred Cisin via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
He is a follower of Carnegie. Ruthlessly make an
enormous amount of
money, and then "buy your way into heaven" by doing good deeds with a
large part of the money. Look at the Carnegie libraries.
Good deeds cost money. Bad deeds earn money.
The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415/510]
WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/
Don't be mean. You don't have to be mean.
3 Sep
3 Sep
2:17 p.m.
On Thu, Aug 29, 2024 at 4:01 PM Dave Wade G4UGM via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Hasn't he promised to give his money away...
Everyone gives away their money when they die. That's pretty much all he
has promised to do. He already gave a large amount of money to himself
(i.e. his foundation).
2:40 p.m.
Furthermore, he gave his money to himself (via his foundation) and then
used it to make gobs more money by forcing his shitty products onto the
world via government mandate, just like he did at Microsoft.
Sellam
On Tue, Sep 3, 2024, 2:24 PM Eric Korpela via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
On Thu, Aug 29, 2024 at 4:01 PM Dave Wade G4UGM via
cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Hasn't he promised to give his money away...
Everyone gives away their money when they die. That's pretty much all he
has promised to do. He already gave a large amount of money to himself
(i.e. his foundation).
4:41 p.m.
At least he never started on his evil lair.
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 3, 2024, at 2:40 PM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Furthermore, he gave his money to himself (via his foundation) and then
used it to make gobs more money by forcing his shitty products onto the
world via government mandate, just like he did at Microsoft.
Sellam
> On Tue, Sep 3, 2024, 2:24 PM Eric Korpela via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Aug 29, 2024 at 4:01 PM Dave Wade G4UGM via cctalk <
> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
>> Hasn't he promised to give his money away...
>
>
> Everyone gives away their money when they die. That's pretty much all he
> has promised to do. He already gave a large amount of money to himself
> (i.e. his foundation).
>
29 Aug
29 Aug
5:47 p.m.
On 8/29/2024 2:46 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote:
Speaking of Bill Gates, does anyone know if he
collects?
He might collect something but I doubt it has anything to do
with computers. I don't think he ever had any interest in
computers other than as a means to get rich. And at the time
he started there were a lot of snakeoil salesman so it was
easy for him to slide right in.
bill
11:09 a.m.
On 2024-08-29 10:27 a.m., Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote:
The solution is right in front of us. One of us here
has to become a
multi-billionaire and create a museum to save all this stuff! Let the
fighting and bickering begin!
Any ideas on how to become a billionaire?
Doug
Find a billion fools with money. :)
While most of it was luck, and the right place at the right time, Apple
, Microsoft, Intel & Zilog and the 6502* it still took a lot of work to
get there in the early days.Only later did they get rich.
Ben.
PS: * Had to say the 6502, or a cult with torches might show up at my door.
12:53 p.m.
On 29/08/2024 17:27, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote:
The solution is right in front of us. One of us here
has to become a
multi-billionaire and create a museum to save all this stuff! Let the
fighting and bickering begin!
Any ideas on how to become a billionaire?
Let me start by saying this is my idea, I thought of it first and I'm
declaring copyright on it.
If everyone on this list sends me just 0.5% of their total wealth, I
promise to try really hard to preserve some retro computing stuff. Honest.
USDC would be best please, I'll set up a wallet as soon as the first
donor steps up :-)
Antonio
--
Antonio Carlini
antonio(a)acarlini.com
2:28 p.m.
New subject: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction)
Antonio Carlini via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
If everyone on this list sends me just 0.5% of their
total wealth, I
promise to try really hard to preserve some retro computing stuff. Honest.
If total wealth means cash or assets that can be readily and reliably
converted into cash (i.e., if giant stashes of retro equipment of
highly uncertain resale value don't count), then 0.5% of my total
wealth would be a little under $200 - but I'll round it up to an even
$200 for this thought exercise.
I am seriously considering taking you up on your offer, thereby becoming
that first donor you asked for - but I have one condition. This same
condition applies not only to Antonio, but to _anyone_ whom I would
potentially consider as a recipient for any of my retro equipment _or_
any of my extremely meager cash.
Specifically: I am potentially willing to donate my equipment and/or
my cash only to those who are Pureblood, meaning UNvaccinated. How
would someone prove that they are unjabbed? Easy: show me the list of
family members and once-friends who disowned you for your resistance
to the vaxx push, the list of groups and events from which you've been
banned or uninvited because of the same personal bodily autonomy
choice, etc.
USDC would be best please, I'll set up a wallet as
soon as the first
donor steps up :-)
Assuming you are pureblood per above (if not, then never mind), would
you accept an old-fashioned paper check by snail mail instead?
Sincerely,
Mychaela,
an ultra-far-leftist California girl who resisted the Covidian narrative
from day 1 (and took 0 jabs), and who is now politically homeless and
tribeless, rejected by The Left for my anti-scamdemic values while
still rejected by The Right for all of the other unalterable aspects
of who I am.
11:08 p.m.
New subject: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction)
On 29/08/2024 23:28, Mychaela Falconia via cctalk wrote:
Specifically: I am potentially willing to donate my
equipment and/or
my cash only to those who are Pureblood, meaning UNvaccinated.
I assume you are aware that child mortality was 50% well into
the 20th century, and was still 25% in 1950. It is now 4.3%.
Guess what made the dramatic difference? Yes, vaccines...
Julf
30 Aug
30 Aug
10:06 a.m.
New subject: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction)
On Fri, Aug 30, 2024 at 08:08:04AM +0200, Johan Helsingius via cctalk wrote:
On 29/08/2024 23:28, Mychaela Falconia via cctalk
wrote:
Now don't you derail someone's political rant and posturing with
actual facts ...
SCNR,
Alex.
--
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison
Specifically: I am potentially willing to donate
my equipment and/or
my cash only to those who are Pureblood, meaning UNvaccinated.
I assume you are aware that child mortality was 50% well into
the 20th century, and was still 25% in 1950. It is now 4.3%.
Guess what made the dramatic difference? Yes, vaccines...
10:41 a.m.
New subject: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction)
But do the recipients have to be free from all vaccines (would be hard to
find an english person who hasn't had the polio or smallpox vaccines) or
only one of the several covid vaccines ?
On Fri, Aug 30, 2024 at 6:30 PM Alexander Schreiber via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Fri, Aug 30, 2024 at 08:08:04AM +0200, Johan
Helsingius via cctalk
wrote:
On 29/08/2024 23:28, Mychaela Falconia via cctalk
wrote:
Now don't you derail someone's political rant and posturing with
actual facts ...
SCNR,
Alex.
--
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison
Specifically: I am potentially willing to donate
my equipment and/or
my cash only to those who are Pureblood, meaning UNvaccinated.
I assume you are aware that child mortality was 50% well into
the 20th century, and was still 25% in 1950. It is now 4.3%.
Guess what made the dramatic difference? Yes, vaccines...
10:45 a.m.
New subject: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction)
You do realize that 'Pureblood' is a phrase most definitely associated with the
Aryan Nations and other neo-Nazi, white supremacist hate groups?
From: "Adrian Godwin via cctalk" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Cc: "Adrian Godwin" <artgodwin(a)gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2024 10:41:18 AM
Subject: [cctalk] Re: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction)
But do the recipients have to be free from all vaccines (would be hard to
find an english person who hasn't had the polio or smallpox vaccines) or
only one of the several covid vaccines ?
On Fri, Aug 30, 2024 at 6:30 PM Alexander Schreiber via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Fri, Aug 30, 2024 at 08:08:04AM +0200, Johan
Helsingius via cctalk
wrote:
On 29/08/2024 23:28, Mychaela Falconia via cctalk
wrote:
Now don't you derail someone's political rant and posturing with
actual facts ...
SCNR,
Alex.
--
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison
Specifically: I am potentially willing to donate
my equipment and/or
my cash only to those who are Pureblood, meaning UNvaccinated.
I assume you are aware that child mortality was 50% well into
the 20th century, and was still 25% in 1950. It is now 4.3%.
Guess what made the dramatic difference? Yes, vaccines...
11:07 a.m.
New subject: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction)
People, please: resist the urge to jump into this tarbaby.
Sellam
On Fri, Aug 30, 2024 at 10:53 AM Norman Jaffe via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
You do realize that 'Pureblood' is a phrase
most definitely associated
with the Aryan Nations and other neo-Nazi, white supremacist hate groups?
From: "Adrian Godwin via cctalk" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Cc: "Adrian Godwin" <artgodwin(a)gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2024 10:41:18 AM
Subject: [cctalk] Re: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction)
But do the recipients have to be free from all vaccines (would be hard to
find an english person who hasn't had the polio or smallpox vaccines) or
only one of the several covid vaccines ?
On Fri, Aug 30, 2024 at 6:30 PM Alexander Schreiber via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Fri, Aug 30, 2024 at 08:08:04AM +0200, Johan
Helsingius via cctalk
wrote:
and
On 29/08/2024 23:28, Mychaela Falconia via cctalk
wrote:
Now don't you derail someone's political rant and posturing with
actual facts ...
SCNR,
Alex.
--
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls
Specifically: I am potentially willing to donate
my equipment and/or
my cash only to those who are Pureblood, meaning UNvaccinated.
I assume you are aware that child mortality was 50% well into
the 20th century, and was still 25% in 1950. It is now 4.3%.
Guess what made the dramatic difference? Yes, vaccines...
looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison
12:33 p.m.
New subject: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction)
On 8/30/2024 1:45 PM, Norman Jaffe via cctalk wrote:
You do realize that 'Pureblood' is a phrase
most definitely associated with the Aryan Nations and other neo-Nazi, white supremacist
hate groups?
And Wizards and Witches. Don't forget them.
bill
12:36 p.m.
New subject: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction)
We can't have any mud bloods amongst our ranks, now can we. 😂
On 8/30/2024 2:33 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:
On 8/30/2024 1:45 PM, Norman Jaffe via cctalk wrote:
You do realize that 'Pureblood' is a
phrase most definitely
associated with the Aryan Nations and other neo-Nazi, white
supremacist hate groups?
And Wizards and Witches. Don't forget them.
bill
11:26 a.m.
New subject: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction)
Adrian Godwin via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
But do the recipients have to be free from all
vaccines (would be hard to
find an english person who hasn't had the polio or smallpox vaccines) or
only one of the several covid vaccines ?
Sorry, my bad for not stating this part explicitly - I meant
specifically scamdemic vaccines OR any other vaccine that was
administered in the post-scamdemic world. For non-Covid vaccines,
I use the midpoint of 2020 as my rule of thumb - anything before that
time point, I consider it safe (unless it was explicitly a Covid vaxx
in experimental development), but for anything after that time point,
I consider any vaccine injections to be potentially tainted until
proven otherwise.
I wasn't an antivaxxer prior to the imposition of 2020-March tyranny
of evil - but the scamdemic _made_ me into a total antivaxxer now.
M~
12:49 p.m.
New subject: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction)
On Fri, 30 Aug 2024, Mychaela Falconia via cctalk wrote:
Adrian Godwin via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
You know, next time instead of writing all that text, just write, "I'm a
complete fucking idiot!" It means the same thing but takes up so much
less space.
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
But do the recipients have to be free from all
vaccines (would be hard to
find an english person who hasn't had the polio or smallpox vaccines) or
only one of the several covid vaccines ?
Sorry, my bad for not stating this part explicitly - I meant
specifically scamdemic vaccines OR any other vaccine that was
administered in the post-scamdemic world. For non-Covid vaccines,
I use the midpoint of 2020 as my rule of thumb - anything before that
time point, I consider it safe (unless it was explicitly a Covid vaxx
in experimental development), but for anything after that time point,
I consider any vaccine injections to be potentially tainted until
proven otherwise.
I wasn't an antivaxxer prior to the imposition of 2020-March tyranny
of evil - but the scamdemic _made_ me into a total antivaxxer now.
4:37 p.m.
New subject: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction)
I never thought I would write this, but can we please keep drug induced
Scandemic theories off list.
I would have thought that as a group of technical people we would all have
been capable of thought and could read.
There was a pandemic. There were vaccines of varying levels of success
developed insanely quickly. They were succesfull in slowing down
hospitalisation rates, which was all they needed to do.
Humanity is better for them.
If you disagree, please turn your computers over to another list member,
put on a tin hat, and go somewhere else.
By the way, the earth is round...
Sigh...
On Sat, 31 Aug 2024, 5:59 am geneb via cctalk, <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
On Fri, 30 Aug 2024, Mychaela Falconia via cctalk
wrote:
You know, next time instead of writing all that text, just write, "I'm a
complete fucking idiot!" It means the same thing but takes up so much
less space.
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
Adrian Godwin via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
> But do the recipients have to be free from all vaccines (would be hard
to
find an
english person who hasn't had the polio or smallpox vaccines) or
only one of the several covid vaccines ?
Sorry, my bad for not stating this part explicitly - I meant
specifically scamdemic vaccines OR any other vaccine that was
administered in the post-scamdemic world. For non-Covid vaccines,
I use the midpoint of 2020 as my rule of thumb - anything before that
time point, I consider it safe (unless it was explicitly a Covid vaxx
in experimental development), but for anything after that time point,
I consider any vaccine injections to be potentially tainted until
proven otherwise.
I wasn't an antivaxxer prior to the imposition of 2020-March tyranny
of evil - but the scamdemic _made_ me into a total antivaxxer now.
4:46 p.m.
New subject: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction)
On Fri, Aug 30, 2024 at 4:38 PM Doug Jackson via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Any idiot knows it's a torroid.
Sellam
If you disagree, please turn your computers over to another list member,
put on a tin hat, and go somewhere else.
You could've simply asked for this thread to stop, rather than using it as
an opportunity to broadcast your political opinions and issuing an
ultimatum to probably over half this mailing list to fuck off.
By the way, the earth is round...
5:29 p.m.
New subject: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction)
> If you disagree, please turn your computers over
to another list member,
> put on a tin hat, and go somewhere else.
and, we come full circle back to the original question of how to turn your
computers over to another list member.
On Fri, 30 Aug 2024, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:
You could've simply asked for this thread to stop,
rather than using it as
an opportunity to broadcast your political opinions and issuing an
ultimatum to probably over half this mailing list to fuck off.
By the way, the earth is round...
Any idiot knows it's a torroid.
I looked at a map. It is obviously a rectangle, not round.
But, Mercator and others came up with ways to project that rectangle onto
the surface of a sphere. Minor problem that Greenland comes out
undersized on the sphere.
But, the sphere projection does have the toroidal aspect with a hole
through the middle for an axis on which it could rotate.
From an engineering perspective, always wear the foil hat with the shiny
side out. If the dull side is out, it will act as an antenna, instead of
a shield.
9:20 p.m.
New subject: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction)
On Fri, Aug 30, 2024 at 5:39 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
Nice save.
I'm almost done with a full set of Revocable Living Trust papers, designed
specifically for computer collectors, which should make this easy. Making
final touches prior to release have been put on temporary hold whilst I
finish the move of my collection. In the process, I located several boxes
of computer brochures and pamphlets and mailings long ago sent to one Fred
Cisin that I received from you over 20 years ago (closer to 30 now) and
that you received anywhere from 20-30 years prior to that. With the patina
of time, a lot of this stuff has matured into some very interesting
literature for period study. There were so many computer shows back then
that I had never known about. Personal computers were a really big thing
back in the early 1980s.
But, the sphere projection does have the toroidal aspect with a hole
> If you
disagree, please turn your computers over to another list member,
> put on a tin hat, and go somewhere else.
and, we come full circle back to the original question of how to turn your
computers over to another list member.
through the middle for an axis on which it could
rotate.
See? It simply manifests as a strange artifact on the Mercator map, which
only serves as more evidence of the earth's torroidal nature.
From an engineering perspective, always wear the foil hat with the shiny
side out. If the dull side is out, it will act as an
antenna, instead of
a shield.
Yeah, but if you wear the shiny side in, it reflects one's own brilliance
back upon itself, thereby amplifying it. It's like sniffing one's own
farts, but virtually.
Sellam
31 Aug
31 Aug
2:24 p.m.
New subject: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction)
On Saturday, August 31st, 2024 at 00:29, Fred Cisin via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
From an engineering perspective, always wear the foil
hat with the shiny
side out. If the dull side is out, it will act as an antenna, instead of
a shield.
That's just what They want you to think.
https://www.howtogeek.com/114037/researchers-prove-tin-foil-hats-boost-rece…
The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415/510]
WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/
Don't be mean. You don't have to be mean.
2:31 p.m.
New subject: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction)
On 2024-08-31 17:24, The Doctor via cctalk wrote:
On Saturday, August 31st, 2024 at 00:29, Fred Cisin
via cctalk<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
But there are some designs that appear to have been built around the
critical angle, meaning that signals will pass right through:
https://lessemf.com/product-category/emf-shielding/clothing-emf-shielding/
73 de Nigel ve3id
--
Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype: TILBURY2591
From an engineering perspective, always wear the
foil hat with the shiny
side out. If the dull side is out, it will act as an antenna, instead of
a shield.
That's just what They want you to think.
https://www.howtogeek.com/114037/researchers-prove-tin-foil-hats-boost-rece…
The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415/510]
WWW:https://drwho.virtadpt.net/
Don't be mean. You don't have to be mean.
3:56 p.m.
New subject: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction)
On Sat, Aug 31, 2024 at 05:31:49PM -0400, Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk wrote:
On 2024-08-31 17:24, The Doctor via cctalk wrote:
Well it is well known that EMF does cause many cancers some of which cause
death but I am not sure this clothing would protect against sunburn.
73 de Diane va3db
On Saturday, August 31st, 2024 at 00:29, Fred
Cisin via cctalk<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
But there are some designs that appear to have been built around the
critical angle, meaning that signals will pass right through:
https://lessemf.com/product-category/emf-shielding/clothing-emf-shielding/
73 de Nigel ve3id From an engineering perspective, always wear the
foil hat with the shiny
side out. If the dull side is out, it will act as an antenna, instead of
a shield.
That's just what They want you to think.
https://www.howtogeek.com/114037/researchers-prove-tin-foil-hats-boost-rece…
The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415/510]
WWW:https://drwho.virtadpt.net/
Don't be mean. You don't have to be mean.
--
Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
--
db(a)FreeBSD.org db(a)db.net http://www.db.net/~db https://ottawa.place/@Dianora
30 Aug
30 Aug
7:25 p.m.
New subject: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction)
By the way, the earth is round...
I'm glad we can agree on this. Of course the Earth is round.
It's also hollow.
To try and turn this thread around: I'm looking to make an extended
memory controller for my pdp8/L. I've got a wire wrap backplane and
enough cards to make it work but I've never done wire-wrap on this sort
of scale.
I've got an old Radio Shack Wire wrap tool and a lot of wire. Is there
any sites that discuss how to do reasonable wire-wrapping?
C
9:40 p.m.
New subject: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction)
By the way,
the earth is round...
I'm glad we can agree on this. Of course the Earth is round.
It's also hollow.Oh it is a donut!>
To try and turn this thread around: I'm looking to make an extended
memory controller for my pdp8/L. I've got a wire wrap backplane and
enough cards to make it work but I've never done wire-wrap on this sort
of scale.
I've got an old Radio Shack Wire wrap tool and a lot of wire. Is there
any sites that discuss how to do reasonable wire-wrapping?
31 Aug
31 Aug
7:52 a.m.
New subject: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction)
On 8/30/24 23:40, ben via cctalk wrote:
round.
Oh, yes, the older DEC backplanes MIGHT have used a
different wire size. But, all I am familiar with seem to
have used #30 AWG wire. But, I have not worked extensively
with PDP-8's, but I'm pretty sure by the 8L they would have
used the #30 wire.
Jon
By the way, the earth is round...
I'm glad we can agree on this. Of course the Earth is
It's also hollow.Oh it is a donut!>
To try and turn this thread around: I'm looking to make
an extended
memory controller for my pdp8/L. I've got a
wire wrap
backplane and
enough cards to make it work but I've never
done
wire-wrap on this sort
of scale.
I've got an old Radio Shack Wire wrap tool and a lot of
wire. Is there
any sites that discuss how to do reasonable
wire-wrapping?
I think back then they used different wire wrap sized
wire on the back planes
30 Aug
30 Aug
10:55 p.m.
New subject: Back-plane wrap (was Re: Re: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction))
On 8/30/2024 7:25 PM, cz via cctalk wrote:
To try and turn this thread around: I'm looking to
make an extended
memory controller for my pdp8/L. I've got a wire wrap backplane and
enough cards to make it work but I've never done wire-wrap on this sort
of scale.
I've got an old Radio Shack Wire wrap tool and a lot of wire. Is there
any sites that discuss how to do reasonable wire-wrapping?
Some of the older (single-sided especially) DEC back-planes were wrapped
with heavier gauge wire, which needs a different tool. The newer
back-planes seem to be wrapped with 30 gauge wire. You can tell the old
connector blocks, as the pins appear rectangular, rather then square.
There are all kinds of opportunity for optimizing routing for distance,
cross-talk and and other esoterica. One thing that's worth doing,
though, is to wrap for a max height of two, and such that all the
connections (except possibly the last end of a given signal) are at the
same height. So, if A B C and D are to be connected together, you
connect A to B, then C to D (thus all at the lower level), then put the
connection of B to C at a higher level. This dramatically cuts down on
the amount you have to *unwrap* to fix something. Avoid situations which
cross the height boundary, because then you have to keep unwrapping
stuff you'd rather not, to expose the buried lower side.
If you are wrapping by hand, you can be assured that you *will* make
mistakes and have to fix something.
I predict you will also find that you are really sick of wire-wrap long
before you are done. These days, PCBs are inexpensive, and less error
prone (in the sense that you almost always end up with exactly the
connections in the netlist). OTOH, connectors are expensive and hard to
reuse when soldered to a PCB. So you've got to be really confident of
your netlist.
You might consider investing in a tool where you pull the trigger to do
the wrap. You'll probably get a more consistent result, and
significantly fewer repetitive motion issues.
Hope that helps!
Vince
31 Aug
31 Aug
7:29 a.m.
New subject: Back-plane wrap (was Re: Re: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction))
If I can find it, is anyone interested in a battery-powered wire wrap tool?
Not sure of the diameter but it's larger than an IC socket, so I suspect
that it is in fact for a backplane.
Postage from Toronto.
On Sat, Aug 31, 2024 at 1:55 AM Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 8/30/2024 7:25 PM, cz via cctalk wrote:
To try and turn this thread around: I'm
looking to make an extended
memory controller for my pdp8/L. I've got a wire wrap backplane and
enough cards to make it work but I've never done wire-wrap on this sort
of scale.
I've got an old Radio Shack Wire wrap tool and a lot of wire. Is there
any sites that discuss how to do reasonable wire-wrapping?
Some of the older (single-sided especially) DEC back-planes were wrapped
with heavier gauge wire, which needs a different tool. The newer
back-planes seem to be wrapped with 30 gauge wire. You can tell the old
connector blocks, as the pins appear rectangular, rather then square.
There are all kinds of opportunity for optimizing routing for distance,
cross-talk and and other esoterica. One thing that's worth doing,
though, is to wrap for a max height of two, and such that all the
connections (except possibly the last end of a given signal) are at the
same height. So, if A B C and D are to be connected together, you
connect A to B, then C to D (thus all at the lower level), then put the
connection of B to C at a higher level. This dramatically cuts down on
the amount you have to *unwrap* to fix something. Avoid situations which
cross the height boundary, because then you have to keep unwrapping
stuff you'd rather not, to expose the buried lower side.
If you are wrapping by hand, you can be assured that you *will* make
mistakes and have to fix something.
I predict you will also find that you are really sick of wire-wrap long
before you are done. These days, PCBs are inexpensive, and less error
prone (in the sense that you almost always end up with exactly the
connections in the netlist). OTOH, connectors are expensive and hard to
reuse when soldered to a PCB. So you've got to be really confident of
your netlist.
You might consider investing in a tool where you pull the trigger to do
the wrap. You'll probably get a more consistent result, and
significantly fewer repetitive motion issues.
Hope that helps!
Vince
24 Sep
24 Sep
7:34 p.m.
New subject: Back-plane wrap (was Re: Re: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction))
Hey Mike,
Did the wire wrap tool sell? Is it any good for DEC backplanes?
Thanks,
Ryan
On 2024-08-31 10:29 a.m., Mike Stein via cctalk wrote:
If I can find it, is anyone interested in a
battery-powered wire wrap tool?
Not sure of the diameter but it's larger than an IC socket, so I suspect
that it is in fact for a backplane.
Postage from Toronto.
On Sat, Aug 31, 2024 at 1:55 AM Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
> On 8/30/2024 7:25 PM, cz via cctalk wrote:
>> To try and turn this thread around: I'm looking to make an extended
>> memory controller for my pdp8/L. I've got a wire wrap backplane and
>> enough cards to make it work but I've never done wire-wrap on this sort
>> of scale.
>>
>> I've got an old Radio Shack Wire wrap tool and a lot of wire. Is there
>> any sites that discuss how to do reasonable wire-wrapping?
> Some of the older (single-sided especially) DEC back-planes were wrapped
> with heavier gauge wire, which needs a different tool. The newer
> back-planes seem to be wrapped with 30 gauge wire. You can tell the old
> connector blocks, as the pins appear rectangular, rather then square.
>
> There are all kinds of opportunity for optimizing routing for distance,
> cross-talk and and other esoterica. One thing that's worth doing,
> though, is to wrap for a max height of two, and such that all the
> connections (except possibly the last end of a given signal) are at the
> same height. So, if A B C and D are to be connected together, you
> connect A to B, then C to D (thus all at the lower level), then put the
> connection of B to C at a higher level. This dramatically cuts down on
> the amount you have to *unwrap* to fix something. Avoid situations which
> cross the height boundary, because then you have to keep unwrapping
> stuff you'd rather not, to expose the buried lower side.
>
> If you are wrapping by hand, you can be assured that you *will* make
> mistakes and have to fix something.
>
> I predict you will also find that you are really sick of wire-wrap long
> before you are done. These days, PCBs are inexpensive, and less error
> prone (in the sense that you almost always end up with exactly the
> connections in the netlist). OTOH, connectors are expensive and hard to
> reuse when soldered to a PCB. So you've got to be really confident of
> your netlist.
>
> You might consider investing in a tool where you pull the trigger to do
> the wrap. You'll probably get a more consistent result, and
> significantly fewer repetitive motion issues.
>
> Hope that helps!
>
> Vince
>
25 Sep
25 Sep
3:47 p.m.
New subject: Back-plane wrap (was Re: Re: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction))
No, nobody else inquired about it.
I have no idea it will fit a DEC backplane; AFAIK it was used on NCR
systems. It might take me a while to find it; when I do I'll try to
determine the dimensions of the pins and the wire gauge.
On Tue, Sep 24, 2024 at 10:41 PM Ryan de Laplante (Personal) via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Hey Mike,
Did the wire wrap tool sell? Is it any good for DEC backplanes?
Thanks,
Ryan
On 2024-08-31 10:29 a.m., Mike Stein via cctalk wrote:
If I can find it, is anyone interested in a
battery-powered wire wrap
tool?
Not sure of the diameter but it's larger than
an IC socket, so I suspect
that it is in fact for a backplane.
Postage from Toronto.
On Sat, Aug 31, 2024 at 1:55 AM Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
> On 8/30/2024 7:25 PM, cz via cctalk wrote:
>> To try and turn this thread around: I'm looking to make an extended
>> memory controller for my pdp8/L. I've got a wire wrap backplane and
>> enough cards to make it work but I've never done wire-wrap on this sort
>> of scale.
>>
>> I've got an old Radio Shack Wire wrap tool and a lot of wire. Is there
>> any sites that discuss how to do reasonable wire-wrapping?
> Some of the older (single-sided especially) DEC back-planes were wrapped
> with heavier gauge wire, which needs a different tool. The newer
> back-planes seem to be wrapped with 30 gauge wire. You can tell the old
> connector blocks, as the pins appear rectangular, rather then square.
>
> There are all kinds of opportunity for optimizing routing for distance,
> cross-talk and and other esoterica. One thing that's worth doing,
> though, is to wrap for a max height of two, and such that all the
> connections (except possibly the last end of a given signal) are at the
> same height. So, if A B C and D are to be connected together, you
> connect A to B, then C to D (thus all at the lower level), then put the
> connection of B to C at a higher level. This dramatically cuts down on
> the amount you have to *unwrap* to fix something. Avoid situations which
> cross the height boundary, because then you have to keep unwrapping
> stuff you'd rather not, to expose the buried lower side.
>
> If you are wrapping by hand, you can be assured that you *will* make
> mistakes and have to fix something.
>
> I predict you will also find that you are really sick of wire-wrap long
> before you are done. These days, PCBs are inexpensive, and less error
> prone (in the sense that you almost always end up with exactly the
> connections in the netlist). OTOH, connectors are expensive and hard to
> reuse when soldered to a PCB. So you've got to be really confident of
> your netlist.
>
> You might consider investing in a tool where you pull the trigger to do
> the wrap. You'll probably get a more consistent result, and
> significantly fewer repetitive motion issues.
>
> Hope that helps!
>
> Vince
>
10 Sep
10 Sep
11:41 a.m.
New subject: Back-plane wrap (was Re: Re: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction))
Would you mind me using your tips for wire wrapping for a tutorial at the
Computer History Wiki (https://gunkies.org/wiki/Main_Page)?
I've learned wire-wrapping right now and thought others should get a little
help.
Ulli
Am Sa., 31. Aug. 2024 um 07:55 Uhr schrieb Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>gt;:
On 8/30/2024 7:25 PM, cz via cctalk wrote:
To try and turn this thread around: I'm
looking to make an extended
memory controller for my pdp8/L. I've got a wire wrap backplane and
enough cards to make it work but I've never done wire-wrap on this sort
of scale.
I've got an old Radio Shack Wire wrap tool and a lot of wire. Is there
any sites that discuss how to do reasonable wire-wrapping?
Some of the older (single-sided especially) DEC back-planes were wrapped
with heavier gauge wire, which needs a different tool. The newer
back-planes seem to be wrapped with 30 gauge wire. You can tell the old
connector blocks, as the pins appear rectangular, rather then square.
There are all kinds of opportunity for optimizing routing for distance,
cross-talk and and other esoterica. One thing that's worth doing,
though, is to wrap for a max height of two, and such that all the
connections (except possibly the last end of a given signal) are at the
same height. So, if A B C and D are to be connected together, you
connect A to B, then C to D (thus all at the lower level), then put the
connection of B to C at a higher level. This dramatically cuts down on
the amount you have to *unwrap* to fix something. Avoid situations which
cross the height boundary, because then you have to keep unwrapping
stuff you'd rather not, to expose the buried lower side.
If you are wrapping by hand, you can be assured that you *will* make
mistakes and have to fix something.
I predict you will also find that you are really sick of wire-wrap long
before you are done. These days, PCBs are inexpensive, and less error
prone (in the sense that you almost always end up with exactly the
connections in the netlist). OTOH, connectors are expensive and hard to
reuse when soldered to a PCB. So you've got to be really confident of
your netlist.
You might consider investing in a tool where you pull the trigger to do
the wrap. You'll probably get a more consistent result, and
significantly fewer repetitive motion issues.
Hope that helps!
Vince
31 Aug
31 Aug
7:48 a.m.
New subject: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction)
On 8/30/24 21:25, cz via cctalk wrote:
I have a program that takes coordinates of ICs and/or
connectors and a net list and creates a wiring list for
first-level and 2nd level wires with shortest length.
It tells what length wire to use.
It is written in Pascal, and uses a genetic algorithm to
find the shortest path. Sometimes that doesn't give the
best wire routing, but it tries. I have not used this
program in several decades, but I'd be glad to give it to you.
Jon
By the way,
the earth is round...
I'm glad we can agree on this. Of course the Earth is round.
It's also hollow.
To try and turn this thread around: I'm looking to make an
extended memory controller for my pdp8/L. I've got a wire
wrap backplane and enough cards to make it work but I've
never done wire-wrap on this sort of scale.
I've got an old Radio Shack Wire wrap tool and a lot of
wire. Is there any sites that discuss how to do reasonable
wire-wrapping? 
3 Sep
3 Sep
3:28 p.m.
New subject: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction)
I’d love to see that program. As a UCSD Pascal developer (at UCSD back in the day)
interesting Pascal programs are always something that I’m interested in seeing/reading.
David
On Aug 31, 2024, at 7:48 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 8/30/24 21:25, cz via cctalk wrote:
I have a program that takes coordinates of ICs and/or connectors and a net list and
creates a wiring list for first-level and 2nd level wires with shortest length.
It tells what length wire to use.
It is written in Pascal, and uses a genetic algorithm to find the shortest path.
Sometimes that doesn't give the best wire routing, but it tries. I have not used this
program in several decades, but I'd be glad to give it to you.
Jon
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is it such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
David Barto
barto(a)kdbarto.org
By the
way, the earth is round...
I'm glad we can agree on this. Of course the Earth is round.
It's also hollow.
To try and turn this thread around: I'm looking to make an extended memory controller
for my pdp8/L. I've got a wire wrap backplane and enough cards to make it work but
I've never done wire-wrap on this sort of scale.
I've got an old Radio Shack Wire wrap tool and a lot of wire. Is there any sites that
discuss how to do reasonable wire-wrapping?
4 Sep
4 Sep
8:11 a.m.
New subject: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction)
On 9/3/24 17:28, David Barto via cctalk wrote:
I’d love to see that program. As a UCSD Pascal
developer (at UCSD back in the day) interesting Pascal programs are always something that
I’m interested in seeing/reading.
I have attached the .pas source file, as well as a .net file
that defines the wirelist,
and a sample .wir output file. I also attached a .hed file
that seems to define the ICs and their positions, but the
pascal file wants the IC definition at the top of the .net
file, and then a 9999 ends that definition part and the
netlist follows.
Ahh, it has been so long since I used this I forgot a LOT
about how it works.
Jon
5:39 p.m.
New subject: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction)
cctalk is allowing attachments now? I was under the impression that these were
deliberately disallowed and filtered for bloat reduction or safeguard against possible
malware distribution?
I'd personally prefer no attachments on cctalk rather just post a link to somewhere
they can be retrieved from if desired.
Steve
On 09/05/2024 1:11 AM AEST Jon Elson via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 9/3/24 17:28, David Barto via cctalk wrote:
I’d love to see that program. As a UCSD Pascal
developer (at UCSD back in the day) interesting Pascal programs are always something that
I’m interested in seeing/reading.
I have attached the .pas source file, as well as a .net file
that defines the wirelist,
and a sample .wir output file. I also attached a .hed file
that seems to define the ICs and their positions, but the
pascal file wants the IC definition at the top of the .net
file, and then a 9999 ends that definition part and the
netlist follows.
Ahh, it has been so long since I used this I forgot a LOT
about how it works.
Jon
5 Sep
5 Sep
4:52 p.m.
New subject: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction)
On Wed, Sep 4, 2024, 8:04 PM steven(a)malikoff.com steven--- via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
cctalk is allowing attachments now? I was under the
impression that these
were deliberately disallowed and filtered for bloat reduction or safeguard
against possible malware distribution?
I'd personally prefer no attachments on cctalk rather just post a link to
somewhere they can be retrieved from if desired.
Steve
I noticed that as well, and was wondering the same.
Sellam
5:29 p.m.
New subject: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction)
> cctalk is allowing attachments now? I was under
the impression that these
> were deliberately disallowed and filtered for bloat reduction or safeguard
> against possible malware distribution?
> I'd personally prefer no attachments on cctalk rather just post a link to
> somewhere they can be retrieved from if desired.
On Thu, 5 Sep 2024, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:
I noticed that as well, and was wondering the same.
You are going to think that I am making this up. (I am not that
imaginative):
The VP of the college used Wordperfect to create a document that consisted of:
"The curriculum committee will meet Tuesday at 2:00 in room D252, instead of
D233."
He put a blue horizontal rule (line) across the page below the message.
He printed it out on a color printer.
He signed it.
He scanned the paper.
He put that as an attachment to an email.
He used a Subject: line of "FYI"
The body of the text of the email with the attachment was:
"See the attachment"
He sent the email to the faculty
(The paper was not quite aligned in the scanner, so the horizontal rule
had a slight "stair-step")
The first item on the agenda was a state mandate that we should teach
"Information Competency", in addition to a previous mandate of teaching
"Computer Literacy".
He opposed it, saying that "ALL of our students and faculty are
Information Competent and computer Literate"
He is not on this list.
In May 2013, I said, "Take this job and shovel it."
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
6:40 p.m.
New subject: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction)
I forgot to mention that as soon as it had been scsnned, the document was
shredded.
Occasionally they screwed up and shredded documents before scanning.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
6 Sep
6 Sep
1:19 a.m.
New subject: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction)
On 06/09/2024 02:40, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
I forgot to mention that as soon as it had been
scsnned, the document
was shredded.
Occasionally they screwed up and shredded documents before scanning.
Surely they would then scan the shreds, just to prove they were
following procedure :-)
Antonio
--
Antonio Carlini
antonio(a)acarlini.com
7 Sep
7 Sep
8:43 a.m.
New subject: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction)
On Thu, Sep 05, 2024 at 06:40:42PM -0700, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
I forgot to mention that as soon as it had been
scsnned, the document was
shredded.
Occasionally they screwed up and shredded documents before scanning.
Maybe you could have interested them in acquiring a shrinter, for
a smooth print-to-shred experience:
https://www.geeky-gadgets.com/cool-gadgets-the-shrinter-printer-shreder-com…
SCNR,
Alex.
--
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison
5 Sep
5 Sep
10:41 p.m.
New subject: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction)
On 5/09/24 02:39, steven(a)malikoff.com steven--- via cctalk wrote:
cctalk is allowing attachments now? I was under the
impression that these were deliberately disallowed and filtered for bloat reduction or
safeguard against possible malware distribution?
I'd personally prefer no attachments on cctalk rather just post a link to somewhere
they can be retrieved from if desired.
Steve
Posts with attachments get held for moderation. Attachments usually get
stripped, but I am not quite sure what the criteria are for that.
I allowed that one but didn't expect the attachments to appear, just for
the poster to work out what to do next. This is probably the first time
someone has posted attachments smaller than 100k.
So don't expect general attachments, especially images etc.
--
Lawrence Wilkinson lawrence(a)ljw.me.uk
Ph +41(0)79 926 1036 http://www.ljw.me.uk
31 Aug
31 Aug
10:34 a.m.
New subject: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction)
On Fri, Aug 30, 2024 at 10:25:08PM -0400, cz via cctalk wrote:
Well, everybody who watched the documentary "Iron Sky: The Coming Race"
knows that, of course.
SCNR,
Alex.
--
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison
By the way,
the earth is round...
I'm glad we can agree on this. Of course the Earth is round.
It's also hollow.
12:30 p.m.
New subject: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction)
On 31/08/2024 19:34, Alexander Schreiber via cctalk wrote:
Well, everybody who watched the documentary "Iron
Sky: The Coming Race"
knows that, of course.
And if you haven't seen the original Iron Sky then you will never
appreciate Space Nazis in the same way...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Sky
Julf
12:42 p.m.
New subject: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction)
On Sat, 31 Aug 2024, Johan Helsingius via cctalk wrote:
On 31/08/2024 19:34, Alexander Schreiber via cctalk
wrote:
DIE THREAD, DIE!!!!
Well, everybody who watched the documentary
"Iron Sky: The Coming Race"
knows that, of course.
And if you haven't seen the original Iron Sky then you will never
appreciate Space Nazis in the same way...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Sky
30 Aug
30 Aug
12:24 p.m.
On 2024-08-29 1:53 p.m., Antonio Carlini via cctalk wrote:
On 29/08/2024 17:27, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote:
MONEY SUCK PROGRAM
ARE YOU SURE! (Y/N) <YOU MAY END UP WITH NEGITIVE INCOME>
The solution is right in front of us. One of us
here has to become a
multi-billionaire and create a museum to save all this stuff! Let the
fighting and bickering begin!
Any ideas on how to become a billionaire?
Let me start by saying this is my idea, I thought of it first and I'm
declaring copyright on it.
If everyone on this list sends me just 0.5% of their total wealth, I
promise to try really hard to preserve some retro computing stuff. Honest.
USDC would be best please, I'll set up a wallet as soon as the first
donor steps up :-)
Antonio
23 Aug
23 Aug
5:36 a.m.
A Space Command remote control went for $1200......
Yeah, why not?
On 8/23/2024 8:07 AM, Christian Liendo via cctalk wrote:
On Mon, Aug 19, 2024 at 5:28 AM Wayne S via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
I think this sale might propel computer
collecting into a parallel market now occupied by car collectors.
In car collecting, not all cars are classic collectibles, but are worth more than scrap
value because of condition, hobbyist wanting to fix up or maybe sentimentality. Think a
Volkswagen bug for example. People buy those for various reasons.
The classic cars that command big money are traded among very well-To-do collectors.
I think Christies may be trying to duplicate the collectable car market with collectable
computers.
I think we getting to that point and to show this I have the link for
RR Auctions collection that closed yesterday and look at the sales
numbers.
https://www.rrauction.com/auctions/auction-details/698?page=2&itemQty=9…
I'm intrigued by the magazines being graded now. I think I'm one of
the few who enjoy the magazines and so seeing them graded and sold is
odd to me.
I have been talking to people out ticket the vintage computer
community who happen to like old technology and with money to spend.
They have taken an interest in the hobby and are dropping good money
on things they want.
What I don't think we have yet is many of the speculators that the
classic car hobby has. 
15 Aug
15 Aug
8:16 p.m.
Mark Linimon via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> writes:
There are at least another three in museums, at the University of
Stuttgart, technikum29 near Frankfurt (along with an LGP-21), and CHM in
California:
http://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/dev_en/lgp30/lgp30.html
https://technikum29.de/de/rechnertechnik/lgp30.php
https://www.computerhistory.org/revolution/early-computer-companies/5/116/1…
I've also seen discussion of a couple in private collections in the US
and Germany.
--
Adam Sampson <ats(a)offog.org> <http://offog.org/>
one is an
LGP-30.
I dare to bet it's the last one. Anywhere. 
16 Aug
16 Aug
12:22 a.m.
The MIT museum has one too.
On Thu, Aug 15, 2024, 11:54 PM Adam Sampson via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Mark Linimon via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
writes:
There are at least another three in museums, at the University of
Stuttgart, technikum29 near Frankfurt (along with an LGP-21), and CHM in
California:
http://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/dev_en/lgp30/lgp30.html
https://technikum29.de/de/rechnertechnik/lgp30.php
https://www.computerhistory.org/revolution/early-computer-companies/5/116/1…
I've also seen discussion of a couple in private collections in the US
and Germany.
--
Adam Sampson <ats(a)offog.org> <http://offog.org/>
one is an
LGP-30.
I dare to bet it's the last one. Anywhere.
6:10 a.m.
One was on ebay and sold a while back. They're more common than a LINC or
Varian mini,etc.
On Fri, Aug 16, 2024, 9:08 AM Christian Corti via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Thu, 15 Aug 2024, Mark Linimon wrote:
I dare to bet it's the last one. Anywhere.
Why? I know of at least four in Europe, but there are more I think. And
then all the LGP-30s in the US (are there any functional ones BTW?)
One of the Europeans is ours ;-)
Christian
9:33 a.m.
On Thu, Aug 15, 2024 at 2:13 PM Mark Linimon via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
I know where one is in Los Angeles (or was as of the early
2000s...hopefully this one isn't it).
Sellam
one is an
LGP-30. I can't tell how complete it is, but it doesn't look
too beat up.
I dare to bet it's the last one. Anywhere.
mcl
17 Aug
17 Aug
5:08 a.m.
On Fri, 16 Aug 2024, Sellam Abraham wrote:
I know where one is in Los Angeles (or was as of the
early
2000s...hopefully this one isn't it).
Back in 2002, when I visited San Diego, there was a LGP-30 and LGP-21 in
the Computermuseum of America. I have no idea where the stuff is now.
Christian
88
days inactive
129
days old
133 comments
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