15 Aug
2024
15 Aug
'24
12:21 p.m.
Christies lot listings for the Paul Allen / LCM stuff are now up.
Pretty sad to see such a collection of notable items broken up.
The web presentation is a little confusing. I think it breaks down like this:
Intro / overview:
https://www.christies.com/en/stories/paul-allen-computer-collection-d946162…
<https://www.christies.com/en/stories/paul-allen-computer-collection-d946162ef5744d7bb43c4459733bf9cf>
https://www.christies.com/en/stories/gen-one-innovations-from-the-paul-g-al…
<https://www.christies.com/en/stories/gen-one-innovations-from-the-paul-g-allen-collection-1f0df60a726e4dcbabef3a91a57ef7ee>
—
The auctions:
https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/firsts-history-computing-paul-g-allen-co…
<https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/firsts-history-computing-paul-g-allen-collection/lots/3726>
https://www.christies.com/en/auction/pushing-boundaries-ingenuity-from-the-…
<https://www.christies.com/en/auction/pushing-boundaries-ingenuity-from-the-paul-g-allen-collection-30730/>
(Allen, but not computers):
https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/over-horizon-art-future-paul-g-allen-col…
<https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/over-horizon-art-future-paul-g-allen-collection/lots/3727>
—
(A couple of item sublinks from above):
The CDC 6500:
https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/firsts-history-computing-paul-g-allen-co…
<https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/firsts-history-computing-paul-g-allen-collection/cdc-6500-supercomputer-118/230057?ldp_breadcrumb=back>
The PDP-10:
https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/firsts-history-computing-paul-g-allen-co…
<https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/firsts-history-computing-paul-g-allen-collection/dec-pdp-10-ki10-mainframe-computer-125/230064>
15 Aug
15 Aug
12:50 p.m.
On Aug 15, 2024, at 12:21 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Christies lot listings for the Paul Allen / LCM stuff are now up.
Pretty sad to see such a collection of notable items broken up.
The web presentation is a little confusing. I think it breaks down like this: ...
It seems there are two auctions, with two separate schedules. One puzzle is that some of
the items in the "History of Computing" auction, like the SC40, are listed as
"LCM collection". LCM of course is a museum and non-profit institution, which
makes it puzzling to see its property appear in the same auction as Paul Allen's
private items like the CDC 6500.
The later auction shows a DD60 console display. Tempting...
paul
5:11 p.m.
One of the items listed is "A group of six calculators". Most of them are
calculators, but one is an LGP-30. I can't tell how complete it is, but it
doesn't look too beat up.
paul
5:41 p.m.
I dare to bet it's the last one. Anywhere.
Well. Now that my *rage* has settled down a bit ...
... a least the "expected amount" on these items will probably mean
they won't go to scrap.
The machines are probably going to go for less than a million. There
are _thousands_ of people in this country who could have just written
a check.
I'm going back to rage some more. Don't mind me.
mcl
7:01 p.m.
I am surprised they have the estimated opening bids amounts for the DEC PDP-10 systems, as
well as the IBM 7090, set so low. They can't be that numerous either. But then again,
still too costly for another museum to just pick them up.
I had selfishly hoped to see my donated mid-1980s Zenith PC clone and all of its re-badged
software (including Lotus 123 and MS Fortran and early DOS Word) included in one of the
clumped microcomputer collections, but alas it was not. Was probably chucked into a
rubbish bin for disposal a long time ago.
Kevin Anderson
Dubuque, Iowa
7:34 p.m.
On Aug 15, 2024, at 7:01 PM, Kevin Anderson via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
I am surprised they have the estimated opening bids amounts for the DEC PDP-10 systems,
as well as the IBM 7090, set so low. They can't be that numerous either. But then
again, still too costly for another museum to just pick them up.
And never mind the estimate for the LGP-30. Or the PDP-5. Or the straight-8 even
allowing for the fact that it seems to have no I/O devices of any kind.
Does anyone know what that SC40 ("PDP-10 clone") can do? It seems to support
SCSI I/O devices, interesting. What software, if any, might run on that?
paul
7:40 p.m.
On Aug 15, 2024, at 7:01 PM, Kevin Anderson via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
I am surprised they have the estimated opening bids amounts for the DEC PDP-10 systems,
as well as the IBM 7090, set so low. They can't be that numerous either. But then
again, still too costly for another museum to just pick them up.
Don't forget the "buyer's premium" -- if I remember right, the bid price
goes to the seller and another 25% on top of that goes to Christie's. And then
there's shipping...
paul
16 Aug
16 Aug
3:49 a.m.
Paul Koning wrote:
Does anyone know what that SC40 ("PDP-10
clone") can do? It seems to
support SCSI I/O devices, interesting. What software, if any, might
run on that?
It probably came from CompuServe, and it would have been running some
of CompuServe's software; user interface, database, I don't know.
10:37 a.m.
On Aug 16, 2024, at 3:49 AM, Lars Brinkhoff
<lars(a)nocrew.org> wrote:
Paul Koning wrote:
Yes, I believe the description says so. I was wondering if it could run any DEC software,
in particular any DEC OS. Or other interesting OS... ITS? :-)
paul
Does anyone know what that SC40 ("PDP-10
clone") can do? It seems to
support SCSI I/O devices, interesting. What software, if any, might
run on that?
It probably came from CompuServe, and it would have been running some
of CompuServe's software; user interface, database, I don't know.
12:11 p.m.
Paul Koning wrote:
They ran TOPS-20 and TOPS-10. CompuSeve used some heavily hacked TOPS-10.
I think they *could* run ITS if anyone cared to do the work to port it.
It probably
came from CompuServe, and it would have been running some
of CompuServe's software; user interface, database, I don't know.
Yes, I
believe the description says so. I was wondering if it could
run any DEC software, in particular any DEC OS. Or other interesting
OS... ITS? :-) 
15 Aug
15 Aug
9:39 p.m.
Eh, it will go for what it goes. Try and keep in mind how tough it was
to keep a 1010 running in 1995. Then add 30 years to that.
The thought of tracking down a bad flip flop on a thousand flip chip
boards really makes me think "yow".
CZ
On 8/15/2024 7:01 PM, Kevin Anderson via cctalk wrote:
I am surprised they have the estimated opening bids
amounts for the DEC PDP-10 systems, as well as the IBM 7090, set so low. They can't be
that numerous either. But then again, still too costly for another museum to just pick
them up.
I had selfishly hoped to see my donated mid-1980s Zenith PC clone and all of its
re-badged software (including Lotus 123 and MS Fortran and early DOS Word) included in one
of the clumped microcomputer collections, but alas it was not. Was probably chucked into a
rubbish bin for disposal a long time ago.
Kevin Anderson
Dubuque, Iowa
9:44 p.m.
On 2024-08-15 7:39 p.m., cz via cctalk wrote:
Eh, it will go for what it goes. Try and keep in mind
how tough it was
to keep a 1010 running in 1995. Then add 30 years to that.
The thought of tracking down a bad flip flop on a thousand flip chip
boards really makes me think "yow".
True, but back then things were designed to fixed and tested.
CZ
9:52 p.m.
True, but back then things were designed to fixed and
tested.
Sure, and they can still be fixed, transistors are quite common. But
after repairing a pair of pdp8/L's, and a pdp8/I I really have to say
it's a bit of a serious job. And the 10 is like..... a billion times
more stuff....
CZ
16 Aug
16 Aug
1:44 a.m.
On 2024-08-15 7:52 p.m., cz via cctalk wrote:
This list needs a good machine shop as well, for older I/O devices.
Or a least a parts list of spares.
Old computers I think had better doc's than today, that had real
information,
Ben.
True, but back
then things were designed to fixed and tested.
Sure, and they can still be fixed, transistors are quite common. But
after repairing a pair of pdp8/L's, and a pdp8/I I really have to say
it's a bit of a serious job. And the 10 is like..... a billion times
more stuff....
10:33 a.m.
On Aug 15, 2024, at 9:44 PM, ben via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 2024-08-15 7:39 p.m., cz via cctalk wrote:
Having the diagnostics available is critical for this. But yes, if you do then you're
right.
It takes me back to 1974, when our college 11/45 crashed and then failed hard early in the
reboot. Called DEC FS. While waiting for the tech to arrive, we (my classmate Josh Rosen
and I) ran CPU diagnostics. Turned up an MMU failure, failed bit in some CSR. Josh
grabbed the engineering drawings to find the data path in question, and pointed at one
chip, saying: "that one". I asked "why not one of the others?"
Answer: "because that's the most expensive chip in the path".
We told Jim Newport when he arrived what we found, including Josh's blaming a specific
chip. Jim said "we'll see". Soon after he grabbed his soldering iron and
spare chip box to replace -- yes indeed -- the specific chip Josh had pinpointed.
paul
Eh, it will go for what it goes. Try and keep in
mind how tough it was to keep a 1010 running in 1995. Then add 30 years to that.
The thought of tracking down a bad flip flop on a thousand flip chip boards really makes
me think "yow".
True, but back then things were designed to fixed and tested. 
12:44 p.m.
On Thu, Aug 15, 2024 at 4:01 PM Kevin Anderson via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
I am surprised they have the estimated opening bids
amounts for the DEC
PDP-10 systems, as well as the IBM 7090, set so low. They can't be that
numerous either. But then again, still too costly for another museum to
just pick them up.
Based on my experience with Christie's, it's because they have no idea what
they're doing, and they didn't bother to hire an expert to help them.
Sellam
1:18 p.m.
On 8/16/24 11:44, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:
On Thu, Aug 15, 2024 at 4:01 PM Kevin Anderson via
cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
The whole idea of auctions is to get people sucked in,
salivating over the "Deal" they might get, and then keep on
bidding it up! It is all a scam to trap the unsophisticated
enthusiast.
I think Christie's, and other auction houses DO know what
they are doing, and they do it very well.
Jon
I am surprised they have the estimated opening
bids amounts for the DEC
PDP-10 systems, as well as the IBM 7090, set so low. They can't be that
numerous either. But then again, still too costly for another museum to
just pick them up.
Based on my experience with Christie's, it's because they have no idea
what
they're doing, and they didn't bother to hire an expert to help them. 
5:02 p.m.
Such an incredible collection, wish I could have visited years ago in its
prime presentation. So many great artifacts, at least fairly certain
they'll go to good homes.
The LINC-8 and Micral-N in particular appeal to me - but I'm in no position
to bid on anything this year.
If anyone does know where those two items end up, look me up - maybe
someday they'll need yet another new home! Especially if they are in
possible working condition. IMO, electronics prior to 1975 become
exponentially harder to keep in working order.
Steve v*
On Fri, Aug 16, 2024 at 12:18 PM Jon Elson via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
On 8/16/24 11:44, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:
On Thu, Aug 15, 2024 at 4:01 PM Kevin Anderson
via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
what
I am surprised they have the estimated opening
bids amounts for the DEC
PDP-10 systems, as well as the IBM 7090, set so low. They can't be that
numerous either. But then again, still too costly for another museum to
just pick them up.
Based on my experience with Christie's, it's because they have no idea
they're doing, and they didn't bother to
hire an expert to help them.
The whole idea of auctions is to get people sucked in,
salivating over the "Deal" they might get, and then keep on
bidding it up! It is all a scam to trap the unsophisticated
enthusiast.
I think Christie's, and other auction houses DO know what
they are doing, and they do it very well.
Jon
15 Aug
15 Aug
11:16 p.m.
Mark Linimon via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> writes:
There are at least another three in museums, at the University of
Stuttgart, technikum29 near Frankfurt (along with an LGP-21), and CHM in
California:
http://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/dev_en/lgp30/lgp30.html
https://technikum29.de/de/rechnertechnik/lgp30.php
https://www.computerhistory.org/revolution/early-computer-companies/5/116/1…
I've also seen discussion of a couple in private collections in the US
and Germany.
--
Adam Sampson <ats(a)offog.org> <http://offog.org/>
one is an
LGP-30.
I dare to bet it's the last one. Anywhere. 
16 Aug
16 Aug
3:22 a.m.
The MIT museum has one too.
On Thu, Aug 15, 2024, 11:54 PM Adam Sampson via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Mark Linimon via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
writes:
There are at least another three in museums, at the University of
Stuttgart, technikum29 near Frankfurt (along with an LGP-21), and CHM in
California:
http://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/dev_en/lgp30/lgp30.html
https://technikum29.de/de/rechnertechnik/lgp30.php
https://www.computerhistory.org/revolution/early-computer-companies/5/116/1…
I've also seen discussion of a couple in private collections in the US
and Germany.
--
Adam Sampson <ats(a)offog.org> <http://offog.org/>
one is an
LGP-30.
I dare to bet it's the last one. Anywhere.
9:10 a.m.
One was on ebay and sold a while back. They're more common than a LINC or
Varian mini,etc.
On Fri, Aug 16, 2024, 9:08 AM Christian Corti via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Thu, 15 Aug 2024, Mark Linimon wrote:
I dare to bet it's the last one. Anywhere.
Why? I know of at least four in Europe, but there are more I think. And
then all the LGP-30s in the US (are there any functional ones BTW?)
One of the Europeans is ours ;-)
Christian
12:33 p.m.
On Thu, Aug 15, 2024 at 2:13 PM Mark Linimon via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
I know where one is in Los Angeles (or was as of the early
2000s...hopefully this one isn't it).
Sellam
one is an
LGP-30. I can't tell how complete it is, but it doesn't look
too beat up.
I dare to bet it's the last one. Anywhere.
mcl
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23 comments
14 participants
participants (14)
-
Adam Sampson -
ben -
Bill Degnan -
Brent Hilpert -
Christian Corti -
cz -
Jon Elson -
kevin_anderson_dbq＠yahoo.com -
Lars Brinkhoff -
Mark Linimon -
Michael Thompson -
Paul Koning -
Sellam Abraham -
Steve Lewis