- cctalk - classiccmp.org

Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors

by Sellam Abraham

I think this is an appropriate time for this announcement. Over the many years I've been collecting, there have been more than several instances of a collector dying and their collection effectively being cast to the wind because their surviving spouse or family members have no idea what to do with their computer collection. We are all very aware of this unfortunate phenomenon. To that end, I've been developing a Revocable Living Trust (RLT) for computer collectors. I've been working on this off and on for the past many months, and though it isn't quite ready yet, this is a good opportunity to announce my plans. The advantages of a RLT are many for the computer collector, including simplicity, and one's continued access to and enjoyment of their collections while they are alive. It's a good start, but not a complete solution, as the effectiveness of the RLT depends on the trustees one has chosen to carry out their wishes once they've departed the mortal coil. That's where what I'm developing comes into play: a multi-modal trustee services corporation which one can name as (at least one of) their trustee(s), which in the event of one's demise will immediately launch into action to protect the trust assets (the computer collection) and distribute it as per the trust indenture. And so much more. The trust indenture itself will be cheap (a nominal $49 is my target price) but I have yet to work out the execution and pricing for all the other services that will be offered, which will include actually coming out to the collection site to secure the collection and handle or assist in its distribution. This message is intended to be a feeler to gauge interest in the product. To that end, if this is of interest to you, please contact me privately and let me know. I can actually set you up with the trust documents right away, as those are basically done at this point, which you can execute and get notarized, etc. to at least have that protection in place. The establishment of the trustee services corporation described above will take a bit more time. If I didn't myself fall ill within the last 9 months (heart attack, nearly died, subsequent heart surgery) I would have already had this ready to go. The irony of this all has not at all escaped me. Fortunately, my collection is now covered for when it's my time to go. How about you? Sellam

1 year

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Door / AC power key for various Sun equipment

by Dennis Boone

For irrelevant reasons, I noticed the other day that the parts-for-power-plants mafia and ebay sellers are all asking $45 - $120 for a Sun 330-2014 key. WTH. If you don't care about the purple plastic on one end, I'm pretty sure that you can make these thusly: Ilco 1043J aka IL11, cut 34244 b-t Illinois/TImberline disc, DSD-44 The Sun handbook says these systems use this key: PRODUCT AC POWER KEY POWER INTERLOCK KEY DOOR KEY E3000/E3500 330-2014 No Interlock 330-2014 E4x00/E5x00/E6x00 330-2014 No Interlock No Key Sun Fire V480/V880/V490/V890 330-2014 No Interlock 330-2014 Sun Fire 3800/48x0/6800 330-2014 No Interlock 330-2014 Sun Fire E4900/E6900 330-2014 No Interlock 330-2014 56" and 68" Rack 330-2014 No Interlock No Key Sun Fire Cabinet 330-2014 No Interlock 330-2014 Hopefully this saves someone some bucks. De

1 year, 1 month

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5.25" Norton Utilties disks

by Van Snyder

I found a stack of 5.25" Norton Utilities disks in my basement. I haven't had a 5.25" drive for years, so I don't know whether they're readable. If you want to try them, send me a PDF for a shipping label for an 8x10x1 9oz envelope.

1 year, 1 month

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wanted: HP-UX 11i v1 (11.11) install media or images

by Eric Smith

I have a new-in-box (but twenty-year-old) HP C8000 workstation (HP Precision Architecture). The box contains an HP-UX license certificate, entitling me to copy and install HP-UX 11i v1 (11.11) TCOE (Technical Computing Operating Environment) for use on the machine. Unfortunately I don't have 11i v1 install media. Unfortunately the license entitlement is not sufficient to be able to get a copy from HPE, because they no longer support HP-UX 11i v1 (11.11), nor the C8000 workstation, and even when they did, you had to have a subscription to get the support and buy media or download images. I'm hoping that someone here might have such media, and be willing to sell me a media set, or copies or ISO/UDF images. (They have to be "real" ripped images, not a rebuild using typical burner software that builds a new ISO/UDF image out of gathered files.) Ideally, the disks I want are AFAIK the final 11i v1 disks:: p/n B6821-10057 HP-UX 11i TCOE DVD from December 2006 p/n B6845-10052 HP-UX 11i MTOE DVD from December 2006 (MTOE is a subset of TCOE) p/n 5014-1459 HP-UX 11i Applications DVD from September 2009 p/n B3921-10061 HP-UX 11i Instant Invo CD from September 2009 p/n 5013-8893 HP-UX 11i Support Plus from December 2008 p/n DV500-10026 HP-UX 11i IUX DVD from 2005 or 2006 However, I can't be that picky. I'd settle for ANY edition of those titles, earlier or later, or the equivalent CD sets instead of the DVDs, as long as it is HP-UL 11i, and not 11.00, 11i v2, or 11i v3. As far as I've been able to determine, the C8000 can run any release of 11i v1, but can't run 10.20 or 11.00. It _might_ be able to run 11i v2 or v3 without graphics support, but I'd really like the graphics to work. If anyone can help me out, please get in touch! Thank you! This is ultimately part of a project to come up with a replacement processing system for the HP 16700 family logic analyzers, which are based on a 150 MHz PA-7300LC. Ultimately I'm hoping to control the logic analayzer acquisition modules from a non-PA-RISC processor (e.g., x86), but I want to tackle this in smaller steps, like making the software run on a newer PA-RISC processor (the PA-8900 in the C8000). It's much easier to start with a processor that at least has the same architecture, rather than having to jump immediately into binary translation. Not to mention that it would just be nice to have the C8000 working at all. I have the p/n 5990-7398 Dcoumentation Library CD for HP Workstation C8000 from May 2004, and the p/n 5991-5986 HP9000 Offline Diagnostics Environment PA0712 from December 2007, if anyone needs copies of those. (The Offline Diagnostics Environment disc says "Valid license required". Best regards, Eric

1 year, 1 month

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SMECC museum status

by John Herron

While we're on the topic of the fate of collections and museums, does anyone know if SMECC (Southwest Museum of Engineering, Communications and Computation) is ok? I'm unaware if there was staff outside of Ed Sharpe (who respectfully rests in piece).

1 year, 1 month

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Seattle’s Living Computers Museum logs off for good as Paul Allen estate will auction vintage items

by Christian Liendo

https://www.geekwire.com/2024/seattles-living-computers-museum-logs-off-for… Living Computers Museum + Labs, the Seattle institution created by the late Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen as a hands-on showcase for rare computing technology and interactive displays, will not reopen, more than four years after closing just ahead of the pandemic. Allen’s estate, which has been managing and winding down his vast array of holdings since his death in 2018, confirmed to GeekWire that the 12-year-old museum is closed for good. The estate also announced Tuesday that some key pieces from Allen’s personal collection of computer artifacts, displayed over the years at Living Computers, will be auctioned by Christie’s as part of a broader sale of various Allen items later this year.

1 year, 1 month

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TexElec Foam and Foil" Capacitive Pads for KeyTronic & BTC Keyboard Repair

by Marvin Johnston

O n t he recommendation of a couple list members, I ordered five of their Foam and Foil" Capacitive Pads for KeyTronic & BTC Keyboard Repair. I thought the price was very reasonable for about 100 pads for each of the five bags plus shipping. Keyboard disassembly was rather tedious, but not particularly difficult. My guess is about a day to complete the job on a Vector 3 keyboard. An Installation video on Youtube is available... search for "How to fix a Keytronic foam and foil keyboard" and you should fnd it. To me, it helped out immensely covering foam pad removal and reassembly. arrival took about three weeks. Hopefully see everyone in September. Marvin

1 year, 1 month

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Fwd: [GreenKeys] FW: [cca] Ed Sharpe, KF7RWW, SK

by Eric Moore

FYI, RIP Ed ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: W2HX <w2hx(a)w2hx.com> Date: Sat, Jun 15, 2024, 1:22 PM Subject: [GreenKeys] FW: [cca] Ed Sharpe, KF7RWW, SK To: Greenkeys <greenkeys(a)mailman.qth.net> FYI 73 Eugene W2HX *From:* cca(a)groups.io <cca(a)groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Scott Johnson via groups.io *Sent:* Friday, June 14, 2024 6:52 PM *To:* cca(a)groups.io *Subject:* [cca] Ed Sharpe, KF7RWW, SK All- With sadness, I must report that Ed Sharpe, KF7RWW, passed away 1 June 2024. He was 72. Ed was a consummate archivist, and had a large Collins collection, which he housed in a Historic house in Glendale , AZ, known as the Coury House. This was the home of SMECC, the Southwest Museum of Engineering, Communications, and Computing. Ed was a USAF veteran, a ground radio repairman stationed at Luke AFB in the early seventies. Ed haunted many of the vintage and military radio sites and garnered much of his collection through these channels. His rampant enthusiasm for technology of any kind will be missed! www.smecc.org https://www.dignitymemorial.com/obituaries/glendale-az/edward-sharpe-118465… Scott Johnson W7SVJ _._,_._,_ ------------------------------ Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#11560) <https://groups.io/g/cca/message/11560> | Reply To Sender <scottjohnson1@cox.net?subject=Private:%20Re:%20%5Bcca%5D%20Ed%20Sharpe%2C%20KF7RWW%2C%20SK> | Reply To Group <cca@groups.io?subject=Re:%20%5Bcca%5D%20Ed%20Sharpe%2C%20KF7RWW%2C%20SK> | Mute This Topic <https://groups.io/mt/106679887/91829> | New Topic <https://groups.io/g/cca/post> Your Subscription <https://groups.io/g/cca/editsub/91829> | Contact Group Owner <cca+owner(a)groups.io> | Unsubscribe <https://groups.io/g/cca/unsub> [ w2hx(a)w2hx.com] _._,_._,_ ______________________________________________________________ GreenKeys mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/ >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to mooreericnyc(a)gmail.com

1 year, 1 month

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Intel 8086 - 46 yrs. ago

by Murray McCullough

Intel introduced to the world the x86 processor: the CISC technology still with us. So what has changed other than speed and upward development? Happy computing, Murray 🙂

1 year, 1 month

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Heurikon HK68/M10 (Multibus) information?

by Chris Hanson

Does anyone have any manuals or other information on the Heurikon HK68/M10? Or the Hbug ROMs for it? The HK68/M10 is a Multibus 68010 board with serial, SCSI, parallel, timers, 1MB onboard RAM, 2- or 4-channel DMA, and an optional 68451 MMU. It's similar but not identical to the HK68/V10 (the VMEbus version) and so far I haven't been able to find much that would make one usable. I'm particularly interested in: An Hbug ROM. Pinouts for the top edge connectors, which provide the serial ports, the SCSI port, and the parallel port. Jumpering/strapping and other configuration information. And of course it'd be incredible to find the UniPlus+ distribution for it, but I'm not holding out much hope for that. I already know what's on Bitsavers—such as the brochure—and I've already looked at the MAME HK68/V10 emulation, so no need to point those out. -- Chris

1 year, 1 month

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VCF Swap Meet this Saturday

by Mike Loewen

Saturday, June 22 from 8:00 - 2:00 across from the Infoage campus in NJ. https://vcfed.org/vcf-swap-meet/ Mike Loewen mloewen(a)cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

1 year, 1 month

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L. Conway

by Murray McCullough

Today I came across an obituary of Lynn Conway, computer pioneer in the field of VLSI(along with Carver Mead) and also in one called dynamic instruction scheduling(used in supercomputing world). More to the point Conway was transgender and suffered for this, an almost forgotten pioneer in the microcomputing and supercomputing fields. Also, as a researcher at IBM and Xerox Parc where she contributed to the first years of microcomputing, the GUI and Ethernet protocol development. Eventually the IEEE recognized her contributions as did IBM - better late than never! Murray 🙂

1 year, 1 month

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VCF Southwest 2024 a summary of activity

by Steve Lewis

Have some notes on my experience at VCF SW over last weekend. I got busy with my exhibits and talks, and didn't get as many photos to cover everything. But for those who couldn't make it over to Texas for this VCF, here is a summary of a few things there. VCF Southwest 2024 (Dallas/Richardson) — voidstar <https://voidstar.blog/vcf-southwest-2024-dallas-richardson/> https://voidstar.blog/vcf-southwest-2024-dallas-richardson/

1 year, 1 month

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Lunar Lander, bug

by emanuel stiebler

Interesting reading, as I believe, we all played it at least once :) https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2024/06/retired-engineer-discovers-55-year-o…

1 year, 1 month

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VCF West tickets available now! Aug 2 & 3 @ CHM

by Jeffrey Brace

Tickets for VCF West 2024 Aug 2 & 3, Mountain View, CA The show is looking to be bigger than ever! We will again be at The Computer History Museum. Tickets available through this link: https://buy.acmeticketing.com/events/499/list Existing VCF Members were emailed the coupon code for their 20% discount. New members can email us after creating their membership to get the code.

1 year, 1 month

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Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

by Dave Dunfield

I case anyone is interested... I've just passed on my "Mits Altair 8800" - this is a very historic system from the 70s - it is: First Personal Computer (long before IBM PC) First S100 buss system First system Bill Gates wrote code for (long before Microsoft) I did write a pretty decent emulator for my exact Altair system some years ago... And with recent interest in the system, I've just updated it with a few minor improvements and a "cleaned up" edition of the software I created to bootstrap a hardware front-panel based system (no on-board ROM) via a serial port card - requiring you to enter only 18 bytes through the front panel So .. if you'd like to experience what it was like to use a system from the 70s - here's some of the things you can do: Bootstrap it cold Run NorthStar DOS (one of the first commercial DOSes) Run DMF (Device Management Facility) - a DOS I created for it - can you tell that at the time I was working on an IBM mainframe ... my - OS name sounds a lot like various IBM mainframe packages at the time. A few other software setups (for example there's a stand-alone bootable FORTH) Has Editors, Assemblers, BASIC and other tools from the era. and a few games - some written by yours truly - some very early commercial offerings (like "Cranston Manor Adventure", or "Valdez") Note1: My Altair emulator was created under DOS and is a 16 bit program! It does work very well with DosBox (I recommend the one on my site) Note2: I've not updated the ALTAIR.ZIP on "Daves Old Computers" yet - you can get the updated one from: "Daves Old Computers" -> Personal -> Downloads -> OlderDownloadsFromPrevious - look for "ALTAIR" under: Simulators and Emulators *** I don't follow this list nearly as much these days - if you want to reach me, use the contact link on my site! -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Search "Dave's Old Computers" see "my personal" at bottom!

1 year, 1 month

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The magic smoke....

by D. Resor

Seems this eBay seller let the magic smoke get out, then proceeded to power it on again one hour later. Litton Monroe OC 8820 https://www.ebay.com/itm/355793400092 See the description.. Don Resor

1 year, 1 month

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Re: Vintage computing in the San Francisco bay area

by Anders Sandahl

Hi! It's many interesting things here. I hope I can pass by Anchor Electronics. When I was looking on the map where to find it I noticed that Intel (and it's museum) is just a few blocks away. I think I'll miss Electronics flea market, I have read abut this in another context as well. It would have been great fun! We will miss the observatory's free views. Well, I have to stay longer the next time. /Anders On 2024-06-14 19:32, Curious Marc wrote: > If you happen to be there on the right Sunday, don’t miss the > electronics flea market! > Electronics Flea Market <https://www.electronicsfleamarket.com/> > electronicsfleamarket.com <https://www.electronicsfleamarket.com/> > favicon.ico <https://www.electronicsfleamarket.com/> > > <https://www.electronicsfleamarket.com/> > Also if you need old ICs and transistors at 1960’s prices, that odd > connector or the big old Sprague capacitor there is Anchor Electronics: > Anchor Electronics <https://anchor-electronics.com/> > anchor-electronics.com <https://anchor-electronics.com/> > favicon.ico <https://anchor-electronics.com/> > > <https://anchor-electronics.com/> > > You could view a lot, bid on it and pick it up at Auction BDI > Hibid <https://auctionbdi.hibid.com/> > auctionbdi.hibid.com <https://auctionbdi.hibid.com/> > <https://auctionbdi.hibid.com/> > > <https://auctionbdi.hibid.com/> > > Also take advantage of the clear California skies with telescope > viewing nights at the Foothill Observatory or at the Chabot Museum, > or, even better, at the Lick observatory > Foothill College Observatory - Foothill College > <https://foothill.edu/astronomy/observatory.html> > foothill.edu <https://foothill.edu/astronomy/observatory.html> > favicon.ico <https://foothill.edu/astronomy/observatory.html> > > <https://foothill.edu/astronomy/observatory.html> > https://chabotspace.org/events/free-telescope-viewings/ > lh_domes_wide.jpg > Public Evening Tours > <https://www.lickobservatory.org/events/public-evening-tours/> > lickobservatory.org > <https://www.lickobservatory.org/events/public-evening-tours/> > > <https://www.lickobservatory.org/events/public-evening-tours/> > > Marc > >> On Jun 13, 2024, at 12:15 PM, anders--- via cctalk >> <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> Soon I will travel to US and San Francisco/San José Area. Any tips >> for vintage computing and surpuls electronics? >> >> CHM is manatory, I'll go there. It would have been nice to see the >> PDP-1 in action, but I suscpect that we will not make it when it's >> demonstrated. >> >> /Anders

1 year, 1 month

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VCF Southwest June 14-16, 2024 - Dallas, Texas

by Jeffrey Brace

If you’re in the area, come see the show. Great attendance so far this year! More info: vcfsw.org Vintage Computer Federation has a table there too!

1 year, 1 month

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tape duplicator program for pdp11

by Jacob Ritorto

Hi, Just got a real (Cipher M990 on TS05-emulating controller) tape drive running and would like to make exact copies of some [9-track] tapes "to guard against disaster." Probably will also do some imaging, so bonus if the candidate program can handle that too. This is on an 11/34; I don't have a good q-bus tape controller yet or I'd try it on uVAX with NetBSD or something less "exciting" :) Anyone know of good programs to do this with only one tape drive? Don't care which operating system. Been looking through DECUS archives but have found nothing yet (manually reading thru - 1/3 of the way done, maybe there's a better way to scan these?). thx jake

1 year, 1 month

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Seeking Remex RRS3300 Paper Tape Reader info

by David Wise

I was given a Remex RRS3300RB5/550/DRA/S358 back around 1999. This 300cps machine uses a capstan and brake instead of a sprocket. The 180ips spooler is AC motors, triacs, brakes, tension arms loaded with microswitches (including a discrete differentiator), six relays, and a soft-start ramp. In spite of the ramp, the spooler was murderous, snapping tape after tape. After some modifications and adjustments I got it working pretty well, but I don't like that I had to change it. I never found a manual, and it has always bugged me. Does anyone here have anything? I have a manual for the RRS3301 which has a similar reader section but the spooler (my sore spot) is completely different. I have a manual for the RTS3300 S239 which is a custom-mod to fit in GE CNC systems of the time. It has no reader electronics, and a spooler that shows common ancestry but again it's not like mine. Thanks, Dave Wise in Hillsboro Oregon To be specific, I made two changes and found a set of resistor settings that treats the tape gently. The changes are (a) eliminate continuous takeup during the startup ramp, (b) block the transition to full speed. The soft start board simply ramps up to maximum and stays there. I made it easy to back these changes out if I ever find out how to make the instrument behave in stock trim. What is my 358 custom mod?

1 year, 1 month

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Vintage computing in the San Francisco bay area

by anders＠abc80.net

Hi, Soon I will travel to US and San Francisco/San José Area. Any tips for vintage computing and surpuls electronics? CHM is manatory, I'll go there. It would have been nice to see the PDP-1 in action, but I suscpect that we will not make it when it's demonstrated. /Anders

1 year, 1 month

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VCF West Aug 2 & 3, 2024 - Mountain View, CA

by Jeffrey Brace

Hello folks, We're less than a month away from shutting down exhibit and speaker registrations for VCF West. The July 4th weekend represents the end of both so I can use the rest of July to get the program built, get the floorplan finalized, create schedules, etc. So if you've been waiting to get your exhibit or talk registered, wait no more! We still have room for both, but I can't promise that will last all the way until July! This year's show is already shaping up to be a great one so you don't want to miss it! As always, details are at https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-west/ Attendee ticketing information and pre-orders will be posted soon. If you have any questions, comments, concerns or -especially- if you would like to volunteer to help with the show, please let me know at this email address. Thank you! Erik Klein VCF West Showrunner

1 year, 1 month

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teletype roll as an RF termination load

by Fritz Mueller

So, I recently salvaged a pair of ASR 33s and a PDP-8/I from a research lab where I work. A few folks chimed in on the "anybody want this" thread, but I happened to be the lucky winner (not lucky for my back or my basement, but they will be fun restoration projects.) One of the engineers here asked if there were any teletype rolls along with these and if so that they be salvaged because "...it is broadly lossy to rf and can be used as an rf termination load." When asked a little further if this was teletype rolls in particular, she replied yes, and that this was something she had picked up in former work as an RF engineer at Varian, from a previous generation of crafty engineers. I thought this was pretty interesting, and that the list here might have a cross-section of folks who might comment. Anybody heard of this before? Hmmm, teletypes *and* RF -- sounds like something Marc might want to check out... :-) cheers, --FritzM.

1 year, 1 month

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Re: Illiac II Library Routine

by Marvin Johnston

First, the date of the report is January 13, 1967. I don't plan of offering the report for sale. Once I find a good way of duplicating the report, I most likely will put the copies on a thumb driver and offer them for sale most likely for the price of the thumb drive (1 or 2 dollars.) If bitsavers wants copies, that would be great since it (they) will be available at no charge. Thanks for asking! Marvin > From: Bill Degnan<billdegnan(a)gmail.com> > Subject: [cctalk] Re: Illiac II Library Routine > > > Marvin > Are these for sale or are you bringing to exhibit? What year was the Iliac > II library routine published? I will be at VCFMW this year. > Bill > > On Tue, Jun 11, 2024, 11:26 AM Marvin Johnston via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> Thanks for the offer,but I'm located in Santa Barbara, CA. My plans >> include VCFMW in September where I can bring a slew of his books, etc. >> I might add there are some IBM manuals including the 360 and 1401 >> Fortran II I've seen so far. >> >> Marvin >> >>

1 year, 1 month

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Dilog Multifunction MQ-100 board

by Douglas Taylor

Hopefully I can find someone who has a manual for this qbus board, if not, does anyone have experience with this board? Summary: It's a dual width qbus board with 1 DLV11-J port, 32KW Boot room, on board LTC circuit and has a 16 pin connector to attach to a front panel. I dumped the prom's and you can see them over on the VCF Forum/DEC page. I used PDP11GUI to probe the I/O space and it looks similar to a MXV11-B boot board, with the addition of a serial port, LTC and front panel control. The board has copyright 1986 so it's not that old. I guess a front panel would have; LED for RUN, LED for DC OK, a switch for HALT, switch for RESTART and possibly a switch to disable LTC. The board has a couple of 4N25 optocouplers and what signals would need isolation? Yes, I would like to use this put together a working qbus PDP11 using either 11/23 or 11/73 CPU, just for fun. Doug

1 year, 1 month

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Illiac II Library Routine

by Marvin Johnston

A friend of mine passed away about a year ago, and his wife is just getting around to sorting through his many books, papers, etc. The title of the heading title is what caught my attention. My current plan is to scan the 9 page paper and make it available to interested parties. Since me my plan is to bring many of his books/manuals to VCFMW in September. The identification is "A complete NICAP program which does matrix arithmetic." The heading is: University of Illinois Graduate College Department of Computer Science Illiac II Library Routine F1-UOI-MTRZAL-82-NI After I get it scanned, I will submit it Bitsavers and give the original to the Computer History Museum. There may end up being more such papers as his stuff continues to be sorted through. Marvin

1 year, 1 month

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Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

by brianb1224

😀

1 year, 1 month

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Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

by brianb1224

If I had his digital basement I would never come out.

1 year, 1 month

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Richmond Retro Computer Meetup - Sat. Jun. 15, 2024 - Richmond, VA

by Jeffrey Brace

Richmond Retro Computer Meetup Sat. Jun. 15, 2024 at the Richmond Public Library in Richmond, VA https://www.meetup.com/richmond-retro-computers/events/301122005/?utm_mediu…

1 year, 2 months

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Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

by John

On Mon, 03 Jun 2024 12:00:08 -0500 cctalk-request(a)classiccmp.org wrote: > > It's like John Conway's "game of life," but more prone to cause > > uncontrollable fits of laughter. > > You owe me a new keyboard (and another glass of milk). Even in death, his power remains ;)

1 year, 2 months

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TinyTapeOut and the Z80

by Martin Bishop

https://www.eenewseurope.com/en/tiny-tapeout-7-readies-open-source-z80-desi… May be of interest both in the context of the Z80 and other unobtanium silicon The lead time is long, ~6 months Martin

1 year, 2 months

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Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

by John Ames

From: CAREY SCHUG <sqrfolkdnc(a)comcast.net> > I used 1620s, and 360/30s, a 360/40, and others as a personal > computer at times, for things like writing a Tim Conway game of life, > keeping track of my vinyl records, etc. It's like John Conway's "game of life," but more prone to cause uncontrollable fits of laughter.

1 year, 2 months

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Re: C. Gordon Bell, Creator of a Personal Computer Prototype, Dies at 89

by Mark Matlock

In addition to the Goodyear STARAN computer, another tire company Firestone did built some interesting one off systems of unusual design. My first job out of college was with Firestone Central Research. While there, I became friends with William Clayton who was one of three of their research fellows. He was a big proponent of APL and there I was exposed to the MCM/700 (see https://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/apl/Brochures/MCM700Brochure ) and the IBM 5100 desktop APL computer as well as APL via IBM 360 timeshare. We used APL to simulate the heat flow and rubber curing in very large earth mover tires with finite-element techniques coupled with chemical kinetics. However, Bill Clayton most interesting work was around optimizing formulations from designed experiment data. He built an analog computer that used static card readers that provided contacts to feedback resistors to simultaneous compute the output of 16 second order polynomial equations with cross terms for 8 independent variables. Each of these 16 polynomials had 54 static coefficients that were determined from second order statistical regressions of data from designed experiments. One equation for example might be tensile strength of a rubber compounded with various amounts of sulfur, carbon black, oil, accelerators, etc. Then another equation might represent wear resistance measured from the same combination of compounding ingredients. The 16 equations had upper and lower limits of acceptable values for tensile strength, wear, etc. The analog computer would then begin an exhaustive grid search of the 8 independent variables to find a combination of the 8 ingredients that met all 16 of the desired output traits. When a solution was found the independent variable value voltages were read by an A/D controlled by a PDP-8 and then printed on a console. Thus the system was actually a hybrid computer part analog and part digital. I was told that doing the 8 factor grid search in Fortran on an IBM 360/168 would have taken 1300 hours but this hybrid system did it in 5 minutes, Only three of these systems were ever built, two of which were used outside of Firestone (one by the Air Force). U.S. Patent 3,560,725 from 1968 provides some background as it covered an early version of the later more highly developed system. Mark > From: Paul Koning <paulkoning(a)comcast.net> > Subject: [cctalk] Re: C. Gordon Bell, Creator of a Personal Computer Prototype, Dies at 89 > Date: May 23, 2024 at 6:58:06 PM CDT > To: "cctalk(a)classiccmp.org" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Cc: Kevin Anderson <kevin_anderson_dbq(a)yahoo.com> > Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > > > I have a vague memory of visiting the Computer Museum when it was still at DEC, in the Marlboro building (MRO-n). About the only item I recall is a Goodyear STARAN computer (or piece of one). I found it rather surprising to have see a computer made by a tire company. I learned years later that the STARAN is a very unusual architecture, sometimes called a one-bit machine. More precisely, I think it's a derivative of William Shooman's "Orthogonal Computer" vector computer architecture, which was for a while sold by Sanders Associates where he worked. > > paul

1 year, 2 months

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Re: interlace [was: NTSC TV demodulator ]

by CAREY SCHUG

This may have been covered before, VERY early in this tread. I think I tried a game on a flatscreen, and had issues. I don't know if it applies to the radio shack Color Computer, the interest of the original poster. many games and entry pcs with old style tv analog format, don't interlace, and tube TVs nearly all (except maybe a few late model high end ones?) are fine with that, but I seem to recall that most or all digital/flat screen can't deal with non-interlace. <pre>--Carey</pre>

1 year, 2 months

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Punchcards

by lukaskron＠posteo.de

Hello! This is my first message to this mailing list but I think this question is well suited for here. My name is Lukas and I am currently living in Germany and I am searching for punch cards preferable with logos/universities around the world. If someone still has some of such cards laying around I would love a message of your offer (off-list). Highly appreciated as I am collecting them. Kindly Lukas

1 year, 2 months

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Video/keyboard mono cable for Sun 386i

by Stefano Sanna

Hi. I recently bought a Sun Microsystems 386i and I discovered (too late...) that monitor and keyboard are connected to the same D15 connector on the back using a "Y" cable (I had experience with other Sun workstations, this was first contact with Intel-based hardware). Unfortunately, I have not such a cable neither I was able to find any info on the web about the pinout/wiring; probably it would be possible to create the cable from scratch (assuming that no other circuitry was inside the original Y cable). Moreover, I discovered that there is more than one option for video boards (mono and color): therefore, there is more than a single Y cable to connect monitor and keyboard. Looking at the official Sun's hardware list, I found this item: 630-1621 386i video/keyboard cable but it does not specify whether it is the mono or the color cable. In any case, it seems impossible to buy it on eBay or similar. Does anybody have some information on how to rebuild it? Thank you. -s

1 year, 2 months

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Re: Video/keyboard mono cable for Sun 386i

by Stefano Sanna

[sending message again, with attachment replaced by a link: https://www.mmcc.it/resources/misc/IMG_7975_video.JPG ] Thank you Richard! To use this cable, I need to replace my video card with a color one. Please, see attached picture of the connector I have on my 386i. I suppose that finding the video card is harder then the cable itself! :-) However, this cable could be a good start for trying to do some reverse engineering of the pinouts. Since the code I found is different, I supposed that we can assume 630-1621 is the code of monochrome screen/cable. BR. -s On 30/05/24 11:47, Richard wrote: > Oh and there is this > > > > s-l400.jpg > SUN Microsystems 530-1366-01 Monitor + Keyboard Cable 13W3 Mini Din8 > /A4 8 Pin > <https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/295331844851?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=705-154756-…> > ebay.com.au > <https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/295331844851?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=705-154756-…> > > <https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/295331844851?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=705-154756-…> > Which looks right > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 30 May 2024, at 19:07, Stefano Sanna via cctalk >> <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: >> >> Hi. >> >> I recently bought a Sun Microsystems 386i and I discovered (too >> late...) that monitor and keyboard are connected to the same D15 >> connector on the back using a "Y" cable (I had experience with other >> Sun workstations, this was first contact with Intel-based hardware). >> >> Unfortunately, I have not such a cable neither I was able to find any >> info on the web about the pinout/wiring; probably it would be >> possible to create the cable from scratch (assuming that no other >> circuitry was inside the original Y cable). Moreover, I discovered >> that there is more than one option for video boards (mono and color): >> therefore, there is more than a single Y cable to connect monitor and >> keyboard. >> >> Looking at the official Sun's hardware list, I found this item: >> >> 630-1621 386i video/keyboard cable >> >> but it does not specify whether it is the mono or the color cable. In >> any case, it seems impossible to buy it on eBay or similar. >> >> Does anybody have some information on how to rebuild it? >> >> Thank you. >> -s

1 year, 2 months

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Re: Pragmatically [was: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)]

by CAREY SCHUG

> On 05/28/2024 1:05 PM CDT Sellam Abraham <sellam.ismail(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > What if a corporation in 1970 purchased an IBM 360 for each of their employees for their individual personal use? Now what? > > Sellam > 1. I don't believe ANYBODY could purchase a 360. You had to lease them. 2. do you know of such a company? (with a significant number of employees, not a lone entrepreneur). I figure asking means that maybe you do. and since I believe no 360 but maybe the model 20 (not a real 360) or the model 22 would plug into household power it seems unlikely unless a tax dodge. 3. if it was one purchase order, it sounds like ONE for the personal computer tally, vs thousands for the not-personal tally. Remember we still need to have enough computers to be 10% (or negotiated percentage) of the total produced. One exception does not change everything. ----------------------- I should have repeated my other suggestion. Only computers NOT depreciated/expensed count as personal. If depreciated, it is a business computer for business purposes. to summarize any or all of the following: -- if depreciated or expensed (reducing income) it is business, otherwise personal. ** --10% of purchases (a lot counts as ONE purchase, including "100-200 per month for 3 years") must be out of household funds (per income tax filings) for and used for household education, not for earning claimed income. --by some criteria, be able to plug into private home power for a reasonable subset of the population. ** There could be tax reasons/dodges (not saying they are legal): (1) a small business could expense them immediately (vs depreciate over years) by titling them in employees' or families' names, (2) a private individual could depreciate even though not actually doing any significant amount of income earning work on them (3) would have been expensed/depreciated but not enough income to be of any advantage, (4) probably many others, ask a shady tax lawyer. --Carey

1 year, 2 months

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Re: terminology [was: First Personal Computer]

by John

From: ben <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca> To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: terminology [was: First Personal Computer] > The third thing is a real OS. Nobody has one, as a personal computer. > CP/M and MSDOS does not handle IRQ's. Unix for the PDP-11 is real > operating system but not personal as it requires a admin,and a > swapping media. This an auld refrain among *nix partisans of the ESR type, but I've yet to hear someone offer up a real defense of it. Even putting aside what "handles IRQs" means here (yes, strictly speaking the IRQs on the IBM PC are handled by the BIOS and/or add-on drivers/utilties, but DOS most certainly makes use of the facilities provided,) why does that make it "not a real OS?" What does PDP-11 Unix provide which MS-DOS doesn't to make one "real" and the other not? Certainly, nothing about a single-tasking single-user text-based environment *requires* interrupt-based I/O, even if it may smooth out performance in some aspects. And there's little if any call for a security system that'd require an administrator account in such a model; if one user "owns" the machine, whatever they decide to do to it can be Considered Legitimate. Virtual-memory capability may certainly enable the user to do more than they'd otherwise be able to, but it's hard to make an argument for it as a *requirement;* even *nix can run without swap, and in point of fact DOS can be support virtual memory with a protected-mode extender. Or is it multi-tasking capability itself that makes the difference? Can't see why that should be the case; it's definitely convenient, but as one person can only be doing so much at any given time, it's also hard to see that as a *requirement.* So what, then, consitutes a Real Operating System, and why?

1 year, 2 months

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Re: First Personal Computer

by Smith, Wayne

I did a bit of searching on Google Books and there is an article from the June 28, 1972 issue of ComputerWorld that states "Ever since Hitachi introduce the Hitac 10 as a 'personal computer' in 1969, not only the regular computer manufacturers but electric appliance, calculator, watchmakers, communications and software companies, and even textile manufacturers, have plunged into the minigame." While they are talking about minis, what this does show is that the term "personal computer" was used prior to the advent of the Altair.

1 year, 2 months

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Help? Programming SCM90448 EPROMs

by emanuel stiebler

Hi all, anybody in the US could program some SCM90448 EPROMs for me? None of my programmers I have here, can do it. Some old, trusty DATA I/O ??? Thanks!

1 year, 2 months

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Re: First Personal Computer

by Christian Corti

[Forwarded from Martin Bishop as some anti spam mechanism rejects his posts] -----Original Message----- From: Martin Bishop Sent: 27 May 2024 23:57 To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Subject: RE: [cctalk] Re: First Personal Computer In the UK the domestic wiring norm is 13A plugs on a 32A ring at 230V : ~3 kW. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_plugs_and_sockets#BS_1363_(Type_G) My domestic computer supplies are wired out on BS4343 (Euro / Industrial) plugs and sockets 16A on a 32A ring at 230V : 3k68 VA. https://www.edwardes.co.uk/categories/industrial-euro-plugs---sockets-bs4343 IMHO, based on measurement, the BS4343 outlets have much better earth conductivity than the BS1361 Gs I want the protective devices to trip, not an electrical experience - other folk's installations provided that Tshirt Martin -----Original Message----- From: Christian Corti via cctalk [mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org] Sent: 27 May 2024 16:53 To: Don R. <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Cc: Christian Corti <cc(a)informatik.uni-stuttgart.de> Subject: [cctalk] Re: First Personal Computer > 16amps where? In Europe? At least in Germany 16 amps is standard. The Schuko outlets and plugs are rated for this current. As an example, the fuse box in my appartment is splitting up the three input phases (63A each) from the main distribution panel to 3x 3 circuits/16A each. Christian

1 year, 2 months

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Re: ANITA ((was: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

by Rick Bensene

Christian Corti wrote: > The Anita electronic desktop calculators are a perfect example for the usage of > selenium rectifiers in logic gates. ..and anyone who has restored one knows that the vast majority of the back-to-back selenium diode packages have to be replaced with something else as they no longer function properly. Ambient moisture kills Selenium as a semiconductor, and even though these devices were packaged to avoid that to some degree, after 60 years, stuff happens. Many restorers resort to de-soldering the dual-diode packages from the circuit boards, hollowing out the package (removing the Selenium rectifiers and the potting material used) and installing back-to-back conventional Silicon diodes that are rated for the appropriate voltages involved in these machines, potting the diodes in place with some kind of material (epoxy?), and re-soldering the package to the circuit board. These calculators used gas-discharge active logic elements (e.g., thyratrons and dekatrons) and used (relatively speaking) high voltages for their logic levels. Fortunately, these gas-discharge devices seem to fare quite well with time, and though some do fail due to atomic-level outgassing or simple breakage, the majority of them work just as well the day the machine came off the assembly line. Such practice with the Selenium rectifier modules makes the calculator look original if done carefully, and allows it to function when operation was impossible with the original devices. It is an extremely tedious and time-consuming process, as there are a great many of these devices used in the first-generation Sumlock/ANITA calculators. I applaud anyone with the courage and patience to perform such surgery on these unusual artifacts. Fortunately, the circuit boards are quite robustly made, and the traces are large and well adhered to the base material of the circuit board (unlike many later calculators), making such an operation feasible. I am not brave enough to try this with the museum's ANITA Mk8. After 25+ years of owning this artifact, I have not even tried to apply power to it in any fashion, and probably never will. It is one of the very few calculators in the museum that is probably not in operational condition, as I strive for all of the exhibited machines to be operable and available for visitors to the physical museum to play with if they desire. I'm content to leave it as it is for a display machine, as it is in very nice original condition. Interesting to note that many ANITA Mk8 machines have a single transistor in them. It's in the power supply. The designers were comfortable enough using these relatively fussy gas-discharge logic devices as digital devices(they had developed machines like Colossus using this technology considerably before transistors were a thing, so there was certainly historical precedent), but the transistor was just fine for an analog purpose in the power supply. Boy, did they ever get it backwards (in terms of the longevity of gas-discharge logic elements in electronic calculators and what became the ubiquitous use to transistors)! Not intended at all to slight the accomplishment of Sumlock Comptometer in the development of these calculators. They set the stage for the explosion of what was to become a many hundreds of million dollar market by the end of the decade, not to mention setting the electronic calculator up to be the driving force behind integrated circuit development for a consumer-oriented device. ICs before their development for use in calculators were only for big mainframe computers, military weapons systems, the spooks at places like the NSA, and the space program. For that matter, the ANITA Mk7/8 could be said to be the progenitors for the development of the CPU on a chip, and by extension, the personal computer. Notice I didn't specify any machine, or say "first". Slippery slope there. Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Museum https://oldcalculatormuseum.com

1 year, 2 months

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PCs in home vs businesses (70s/80s)

by Tarek Hoteit

I came across this paragraph from the July 1981 Popular Science magazine edition in the article titled “Compute power - pro models at almost home-unit prices.” “ ‘Personal-computer buffs may buy a machine, bring it home, and then spend the rest of their time looking for things it can do’, said …. ‘In business, it’s the other way around. Here you know the job, you have to find a machine that will do it. More precisely, you have to find software that will do the job. Finding a computer to use the software you’ve selected becomes secondary.”. Do you guys* think that software drove hardware sales rather than the other way around for businesses in the early days? I recall that computer hardware salespeople would be knocking on businesses office doors rather than software salesmen. Just seeking your opinion now that we are far ahead from 1981. (*I do wish we have female gender engaged in the classic computing discussions threads as well. Maybe there is.) Regards, Tarek Hoteit AI Consultant, PhD +1 360-838-3675

1 year, 2 months

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Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

by John Foust

At 07:50 AM 5/24/2024, Henry Bent via cctalk wrote: >Surely the code written for Traf-O-Data, before Altair BASIC, counts as a >commercial product; I'm not sure what definition of "published" you're >using here. They didn't sell Traf-o-data, did they? I thought it was a tool they used to analyze data for municipalities, and got paid for the service. - John

1 year, 2 months

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Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

by Dave Dunfield

Sorry in not a proper chained reply - it's been so long since I've subscribed to this list, systems have changed, and I really can't recall how to log in - so I can post replies! These are replies to my previous: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s) -- Chuck Guizis (and several others) -- On "first personal computer" >I don't think the "first" applies in this case. The MCM/70 used an 8008 >and was complete computer with storage and display--something the MITS >8800 was not. I knew this would get lots of comments! -this is what my documentation says: Others debate it, however the Altair deserves this title because: - First computer of substantial capability marketed to hobbiests and small business, and affordable by people of modest means. - First computer to be widely owned by people not professionally involved with the computers industry. - First widely standardized small system bus (S-100), opened the "off the shelf" market for computer add-on's. Ed Roberts, Altair creator: "We coined the phrase Personal Computer and it was first applied to the Altair, i.e., by definition the first personal computer." .. "The beginning of the personal computer industry started without question at MITS with the Altair." -- Christian Corti -- on "Bill Gates first code" >Didn't he write code for DEC machines at his school before that? I'm sure he wrote code before Mits BASIC - everyone writes lots of stuff as they learn - but as far as I have been able to determine - Mits BASIC was his first published commercial product. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Search "Dave's Old Computers" see "my personal" at bottom!

1 year, 2 months

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Re: C. Gordon Bell, Creator of a Personal Computer Prototype, Dies at 89

by Kevin Anderson

I had the good fortune of visiting The Computer Museum in Boston in the summer of 1984. Reading the museum's Wikipedia article, it appears I was there while they were still freshly setting up their Museum Wharf location, yet hadn't officially opened yet. Unfortunately I only had an hour (or little more) to visit before I had to return to where my wife was at a different location (which I vaguely recall was at an aquarium somewhere nearby?). The clerk at the front entrance was really surprised that I was leaving so soon...which in hindsight I wish now had not been so short. Kevin Anderson Dubuque, Iowa

1 year, 2 months

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Re: C. Gordon Bell, Creator of a Personal Computer Prototype, Dies at 89

by Sellam Abraham

On Wed, May 22, 2024 at 1:15 PM John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com> wrote: > At 01:32 PM 5/22/2024, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: > >His and his wife > >Gwen's (god rest her soul as well) personal collecting and the museum at > >DEC was the basis for the Boston Computer Museum, which effectively went > >west and became the Computer History Museum. > > He was quite sensitive about this. I made the same mistake, referring > to it as the "Boston Computer Museum." He told me: > > "Let me be clear The Computer Museum (TCM) was NEVER called the > Boston Computer Museum... Boston was a temporary home when computing > passed through New England, but the city itself gave nothing to it. > ... As a former collector, founder, and board member of the > Digital Computer Museum > The Computer Museum >> current Computer History > Museum > (a name I deplore and that exists only because of the way the Museum left > Boston) > I have always been a strong advocate of getting as many artifacts into as > many > hands as possible, and this includes selling museum artifacts when > appropriate. > In essence a whole industry of museums and collectors is essential." > > - John > I appreciate the clarification. I agree that it's a shame that the CHM couldn't be called TCM. "Computer History Museum" is a fairly awkward name. Sellam

1 year, 2 months

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Re: C. Gordon Bell, Creator of a Personal Computer Prototype, Dies at 89

by John Foust

At 01:32 PM 5/22/2024, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: >His and his wife >Gwen's (god rest her soul as well) personal collecting and the museum at >DEC was the basis for the Boston Computer Museum, which effectively went >west and became the Computer History Museum. He was quite sensitive about this. I made the same mistake, referring to it as the "Boston Computer Museum." He told me: "Let me be clear The Computer Museum (TCM) was NEVER called the Boston Computer Museum... Boston was a temporary home when computing passed through New England, but the city itself gave nothing to it. ... As a former collector, founder, and board member of the Digital Computer Museum > The Computer Museum >> current Computer History Museum (a name I deplore and that exists only because of the way the Museum left Boston) I have always been a strong advocate of getting as many artifacts into as many hands as possible, and this includes selling museum artifacts when appropriate. In essence a whole industry of museums and collectors is essential." - John

1 year, 2 months

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C. Gordon Bell, Creator of a Personal Computer Prototype, Dies at 89

by Christian Liendo

Ars Technica https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/05/gordon-bell-an-architect-of-our-dig… New York Times Obit https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/21/technology/c-gordon-bell-dead.html?unloc…

1 year, 2 months

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Thirties techies and computing history

by Tarek Hoteit

A friend of a friend had a birthday gathering. Everyone there was in their thirties, except for myself, my wife, and our friend. Anyway, I met a Google engineer, a Microsoft data scientist, an Amazon AWS recruiter (I think she was a recruiter), and a few others in tech who are friends with the party host. I had several conversations about computer origins, the early days of computing, its importance in what we have today, and so on. What I found disappointing and saddening at the same time is their utmost ignorance about computing history or even early computers. Except for their recall of the 3.5 floppy or early 2000’s Windows, there was absolutely nothing else that they were familiar with. That made me wonder if this is a sign that our living version of classical personal computing, in which many of us here in this group witnessed the invention of personal computing in the 70s, will stop with our generation. I assume that the most engaging folks in this newsgroup are in their fifties and beyond. (No offense to anyone. I am turning fifty myself) I sense that no other generation following this user group's generation will ever talk about Altairs, CP/M s, PDPs, S100 buses, Pascal, or anything deemed exciting in computing. Is there hope, or is this the end of the line for the most exciting era of personal computers? Thoughts? Regards, Tarek Hoteit

1 year, 2 months

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Re: Thirties techies and computing history

by Tarek Hoteit

Thank you, Josh. How did your passion start with classical computers? Maybe this helps in understanding the generation? Regards, Tarek Hoteit > On May 19, 2024, at 08:39, Joshua Rice via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > Younger folk are indeed more ignorant of where technology came from, but i wouldn't say all of them are. I'm 32 years young and, well, i'm posting this email on the mailing list, so that probably says enough. > > Sure, the pool of those interested in old computer tech might be smaller nowadays than it used to be, but then so is the pool of those interested in Ford Model T's or gasoline powered Maytag washing machines, or steam traction engines. But as long as stuff exists, there will be people interested in tinkering with it. It's just that some tech is just not relevant any more, so those exposed to it or used it in anger are going to be fewer and far between. > > It's OK to be concerned, but i don't think the retro computing scene is as dire as some might make it out to be. > > Cheers, > > Josh Rice > >> On 19/05/2024 16:14, Tarek Hoteit via cctalk wrote: >> A friend of a friend had a birthday gathering. Everyone there was in their thirties, except for myself, my wife, and our friend. Anyway, I met a Google engineer, a Microsoft data scientist, an Amazon AWS recruiter (I think she was a recruiter), and a few others in tech who are friends with the party host. I had several conversations about computer origins, the early days of computing, its importance in what we have today, and so on. What I found disappointing and saddening at the same time is their utmost ignorance about computing history or even early computers. Except for their recall of the 3.5 floppy or early 2000’s Windows, there was absolutely nothing else that they were familiar with. That made me wonder if this is a sign that our living version of classical personal computing, in which many of us here in this group witnessed the invention of personal computing in the 70s, will stop with our generation. I assume that the most engaging folks in this newsgroup are in their fifties and beyond. (No offense to anyone. I am turning fifty myself) I sense that no other generation following this user group's generation will ever talk about Altairs, CP/M s, PDPs, S100 buses, Pascal, or anything deemed exciting in computing. Is there hope, or is this the end of the line for the most exciting era of personal computers? Thoughts? >> Regards, >> Tarek Hoteit

1 year, 2 months

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NTSC TV demodulator

by wrcooke＠wrcooke.net

I have a couple of 70s/80s "home" computers (e.g. Radio Shack Color Computer) that are intended to connect to a TV set. They don't have easily available composite video, even internally, only modulated RF output. Currently I have an old CRT TV that I use with them, but for various reasons that isn't practical long-term. Does anyone know of a small TV tuner that tunes old analog TV channels (US NTSC) and outputs composite or VGA or HDMI signals? I've looked around a bit but haven't found anything. It's relatively easy to build one, but I would prefer a pre-built solution. And I'm sure others have run into this same problem. Thanks, Will

1 year, 2 months

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Re: Thirties techies and computing history

by Tarek Hoteit

But, Bill, maybe you did influence at least one student or more when you showed them the PDP or VAX. Perhaps we don't know who, but we have to keep believing that we are influencing someone somewhere. The fact that you are 73 (Jon also said he is in his 70s) and your passion is rock solid is an excellent attestation that those who love computers are unique and will always do so. We don't need every techie to be involved, only the passionate ones. Josh is deep into classic computers in his thirties, as he said. Sellam joined the group in his twenties, thirty years ago. Many of us are of different ages. I am in my fifty and touched the first computer key on a keyboard in 78. This group maybe one of the last mailing lists standing about classical computer. To be specific: I saw a lot of Discord channels on retro computers but they all lack true experienced folks who actually worked on such machines. I guess the most important thing is for that special geek out there is to be aware of this distribution and make sure to keep it running Regards, Tarek Hoteit AI Consultant, PhD +1 360-838-3675 > On May 19, 2024, at 09:31, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > On 5/19/2024 11:14 AM, Tarek Hoteit via cctalk wrote: >> A friend of a friend had a birthday gathering. Everyone there was in their thirties, except for myself, my wife, and our friend. Anyway, I met a Google engineer, a Microsoft data scientist, an Amazon AWS recruiter (I think she was a recruiter), and a few others in tech who are friends with the party host. I had several conversations about computer origins, the early days of computing, its importance in what we have today, and so on. What I found disappointing and saddening at the same time is their utmost ignorance about computing history or even early computers. Except for their recall of the 3.5 floppy or early 2000’s Windows, there was absolutely nothing else that they were familiar with. That made me wonder if this is a sign that our living version of classical personal computing, in which many of us here in this group witnessed the invention of personal computing in the 70s, will stop with our generation. I assume that the most engaging folks in this newsgroup are in their fifties and beyond. (No offense to anyone. I am turning fifty myself) I sense that no other generation following this user group's generation will ever talk about Altairs, CP/M s, PDPs, S100 buses, Pascal, or anything deemed exciting in computing. Is there hope, or is this the end of the line for the most exciting era of personal computers? Thoughts? > > > I'm 73. How do you think I feel. I worked for 25 years in a Computer > Science Department of a University and not only did they not teach any > of the history. They mostly didn't know it themselves anyway. I kept > PDP-11's and Vaxen in the department for the students to see and, if > they wished, use but eventually I was told it was wasting space and > when they moved the department to the new science building there was > no space allocated for anything but the bare minimum of equipment. > > bill

1 year, 2 months

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Help request with fundraising campaign to save historic computers

by Gianluca Bonetti

Hello everyone I have been following this mailing for a long time but have never posted yet. Simply, I never had something interesting to write about, until now. Apologies for my first message being a funding request, but I trust you will agree with me about the importance of this matter for preserving computer history. I am helping Museo del Computer with this fundraising effort in order to save a large number of machines with significant historic value, including some Sperry Univac systems. Museo del Computer is a non-profit organization in northern Italy, run solely by volunteer work and donors' money since governments are still not interested in computer history. Museo del Computer is one of the largest computer history museums worldwide, with 4000 sqm between exhibition area and storage space, open to the public upon booking. This recovery expedition will go as far as 750km to load 100+ machines onto 3 lorries. The goal is to preserve these history-rich machines for all living enthusiasts and for future generations. All these hundred machines are really pieces of history, around 50 years old (I wasn't even born back then!) They need to be saved, moved carefully, and preserved in the custody of a Museum which we can all benefit from. The fundraising campaign is on Fundrazr at this link https://fundrazr.com/computermuseum Header pictures show some of the actual machines being saved: they are in great condition and probably still working. I trust you understand the importance of this activity in preserving computer history! Your contribution is greatly appreciated! Please share and spread the word! Thank you very much for any contributions! Will keep you posted, and hope to meet you at Museo del Computer any time soon! Gianluca Bonetti

1 year, 2 months

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Mylar/Sponge Keyboard Repair Kits

by Marvin Johnston

I've got a couple of keyboards where the sponge has disintegrated to the point they no longer work. The latest one is a Vector 3 keyboard and I would love to get it fixed. Can repair kits still be purchased and/or are the instructions for making those sponge/mylar pieces available? Thanks! Marvin

1 year, 2 months

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Papertape-Reader Decitek 442A9: need manual/schematics

by Michael Fritsch

I have a Decitek 442A9 papertape reader which needs repair. I have already replaced the belt, but that is not enough. The reader behaves very strangely. It starts running as soon as I apply power. And there is another problem: when I load a tape, it rattles irregular during reading. This is not a mechanical problem, it seems to react to the pulse of the feed hole, which arrives at the wrong time. I'm pretty sure, that I have to adjust the sprockets somehow relative to the stop positions of the stepper motor. It was nothing to be found online except pictures of a similar model 443A9 at RICM: https://www.ricomputermuseum.org/collections-gallery/equipment/dec-pdp-8s-4. The controller board number is 30291A Does anyone happen to have the manual and/or schematics or any other documents? Thank you, Micha

1 year, 2 months

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Re: Random items on Pascal #3

by Fred Cisin

Turbo-Pascal was quite popular. At the annnouncement of it (West Coast Computer Faire), Phillipe Kahn (Borland) was so inundated with "yeah, but what about C?" questions, that by the end of the first day, "Turbo C is coming soon"

1 year, 2 months

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ANSI-M (Mumps) and the VA

by Bill Gunshannon

With the VA dropping Vista what happens to that army of Mumps programmers they had? Can't see much call for them in the IT world today. Seems like a worse fate than COBOL Programmers. bill

1 year, 2 months

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BASIC

by Murray McCullough

Nostalgia keeps pressing ahead: It was 60 yrs. ago that BASIC came into existence. I remember very well writing in Apple Basic and GW Basic later on. As a non-compiled OS, an interpreted OS, it was just the right tool for a microcomputer with limited memory. I recall fondly taking code from popular magazines and getting them to run. It was thrilling indeed! Happy computing, Murray 🙂

1 year, 2 months

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Re: Random items on Pascal #3

by Charles

In the early '80's, I did some programming with Micro Concurrent Pascal, on embedded CDP1802 systems. It was really nice to be able to program in something other than assembly language (a cross-assembler that ran on a PDP-11 system). Regarding protections, it didn't have many. I remember spending a day tracking down a fatal bug with a logic analyzer (emulators were still a dream in this small company)... another programmer had used an array subscript out of range and the compiler didn't catch it for some reason. So in this array defined [0..20], when the typo caused a write to FOO[60] instead of FOO[20], bad things happened. Ah, the good old days ;) -Charles

1 year, 2 months

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Saga of CP/M

by Fred Cisin

PL/M (think "PL/1") was a high level programming language for microprocessors. CP/M was also briefly called "Control Program and Monitor" It was written by Gary Kildall. (May 19, 1942 - july 11, 1994) Gary taught at Navy Postgraduate School in Monterey. He took a break in 1972, to complete his PhD at University of Washington. He wrote 8008 and 8080 instruction set simulators for Intel, and they loaned him hardware. In 1973? he wrote CP/M. He offered it to Intel, but they didn't want it, although they marketed the PL/M. He and his wife started "Intergalactic Digital Research" in Pacific Grove. Later renamed "Digital Research, Inc." CP/M rapidly became a defacto standard as operating system for 8080 and later Z80 computers. In the late 1970s, when CP/M computers were available with 5.25" drives, and there were hundreds, soon thousands of different formats, I chatted with Gary, and pleaded with him ot create a "standard" format for 5.25". His response was a very polite, "The standard format for CP/M is 8 inch single sided single density." I pointed out that formats were proliferating excessively. His response was a very polite, "I understand. Sorry, but the standard format for CP/M is 8 inch single sided single density." In 1980? IBM was developing a personal computer. (y'all have heard of it) One of the IBM people had a Microsoft Softcard (Z80 plus CP/M) in his Apple. IBM went to Microsoft, to negotiate BASIC for the new machine, and CP/M. Bill Gates explained and sent them to Digital Research. When the IBM representatives arrived, Gary was flying his plane up to Oakland to visit Bill Godbout. He hadn't seen a need to be present, and assumed that Dorothy would take care of the [presumably completely routine] paperwork. While visiting Bill godbout, and delivering some software was important, it WAS something that a low level courier could have done. There was a little bit of a culture clash. The IBM people were all in identical blue suits. The DR people were in sandals, barefoot, shorts, t-shirts, braless women, with bicycles, surfboard, plants and even cats in the office, The IBM people demanded a signed non=disclosure ageement before talking. Dorothy Kildall refused. When Dorothy got Gary on the phone, it is unreliably reported that he said, "well, let them sit on the couch and wait their turn like the rest of the customers." It is also been said that DR people upstairs saw the IBM people marching up, and thought that it was a drug raid. I have stood in that bay window overlooking the front door, and can believe that. IBM chose to not do business with DR and went back to Microsoft. When billg was unable to convince them that Microsoft was not in the operating system business, Microsoft went into the operating system business. They bought an unlimited license to QDOS (Tim Paterson's work at Seattle Computer Products). They also hired Tim Paterson. DR was working on CP/M-86, but it was a ways off. Paterson had written QDOS ("Quick and Dirty Operating System") as a placeholder to be able to continue development while waiting for CP/M-86 We've mentioned before, that Tim Paterson got the idea for the directory structure from Microsoft Standalone BASIC. As Chuck pointed out, that was not a new invention, merely a choice of which way to do it. billg knew how to deal with officious managers. It is unreliably said that he told the Microsoft people, "Everybody who does not own a suit, stay home tomorrow!" IBM insisted that Micorsoft beef up security. window shades, locks on doors that normally weren't, locks on file cabinets, etc. It is unreliably said that to throw off anyboy who heard about it, that Microsoft referred to the IBm project as "Project Commodore" dr continued to sell CP/M. When the 5150/:PC was ready, IBM announced it with PC-DOS, which was a renaming of MS-DOS,renaming 86-DOS, renaming QDOS. If I recall correctly theprice was $40 (or maybe $60?) DR pointed out that NS-DOS was extremely similar to CP/M. https://www.cs.drexel.edu/~johnsojr/2012-13/fall/cs370/resources/An%20Insid… IBM didn't consider it a problem, andsimply offered to ALSO sell CP/M-86, particularly since they were already also marketing UCSD P-System. CP/M-86 was not available yet, so everybody buying a disk based PC bought PC-DOS. But, most of us assumed thata CP/M-86 would become the standard once it came out, and PC-DOS was similar and let us use the machines while waiting. CP/M-86 took a long time to come out (6 months is a LONG time in such things). When it did, the price was $240. There are disagreemnets about whether DR or IBM had set the price point. Most decided to keep using Pc-DOs until CP/M-86 had caught on. But with the price differential, and the lead, PC-DOS remained the standard. dr continued, came out with MP/M-86, and eventually came out with "Concurrent DOS", and "DR-DOS", which was based on MS-DOS. Microsoft could not fault somebody for copying them, when it was the ones that they had copied. No, Microsoft could certainly not claim trademark status for "DOS"! In fact, although Microsoft trademarkd "MS-DOS", IBM did NOT trademark PC-DOS, saying that it just meant Personal Compter Disk Operating System, which is a description, not a unique name. In 1987, I visited the Patent and Trademark Office outside of Washington, DC, and personally confirmed that in their stacks. Many people have said that blowing off IBM was the stupidest move in the history of stupid moves. Other people insist that blowing off IBM was the BRAVEST move in history. A lot of people gave Gary flack about it. eventually, he bagan drinking. On July 8, 1994, Gary fell and hit his head. It is unclear whether that was during an altercation. (A lot of people fall during bar brawls) It was at the Franklin Street biker Bar & Grill, Investigation as a potential homicide was inconclusive. About 10 years ago, I was in Pacific Grove, and visited the DR house on Lighthouse street. An extremely hospitable fellow had recently bought it in a foreclosure sale. At the time that he bought it, he was unaware of the historical significance. He let me wander through the whole place, looking out the upstairs window at the walkway, etc. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com

1 year, 2 months

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Re: DOS p-System Pascal: (Was: Saga of CP/M)

by John

On Fri, 10 May 2024 12:00:07 -0500 cctalk-request(a)classiccmp.org wrote: > The UCSD shell was atrocious. The compiler was slow. The editor was > terrible. The entire experience was reminiscent of working on a dumb > terminal connected to a mainframe, when it could've taken advantage of > the features of the personal computer. > > I hated it. > > I hate it. I've never had the pleasure, but a glance over the documentation is... enlightening. God only knows why so many people over the decades have gravitated to the "pick the thing you want to do from this list of the things which can be done" school of UI design...

1 year, 2 months

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Re: Random items on Pascal #4

by Robert Stek

After 'lunch with Draper', you almost immediately reference a 'CRUNCH' utility? Seems like more than coincidence to me, but I'm big on conspiracy theories.

1 year, 2 months

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New VCF Video bumper

by Jeffrey Brace

The Vintage Computer Federation is looking for a new bumper to add to the front and back of all their new videos. There are 7 different versions. Vote on the one that you like best! https://forms.gle/Y9Qrj26xokeFXjub6

1 year, 2 months

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VCF Southwest June 14-16, Dallas, TX - Preview livestream

by Jeffrey Brace

The organizers of VCF Southwest will talk about the upcoming show this Saturday, May 11 at 6:30PM EDT : https://youtube.com/live/Y_4wr-Bml5M?feature=share More info on the show vcfsw.org Enjoy! Jeff Brace

1 year, 2 months

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Re: Random items on Pascal #4

by Fred Cisin

At NCC - Anaheim, I bought John Draper lunch (I never exercised with him) for a quick consultation about P-system directory structure. I added some P-system formats into XenoCopy a week later.

1 year, 2 months

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GEM95 cable

by Bill Degnan

I have a cable with two heads on one end and a rj45 phone connector on the other end. On the two-headed side is a 25-pin ( serial female RS232 ?) and 9-pin (serial female RS232 ?) The 25 pin adapter has a GEM95 sticker on it. What was this cable used for? BIll

1 year, 2 months

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DOS p-System Pascal: (Was: Saga of CP/M)

by John

> Pascal never really made it on the microcomputer platform did it? > I can be convinced otherwise but it seems like microcomputing Pascal > was more of a staging environment for then upload into a production > mainframe/mini Pascal was the language of choice over at Apple in the original MacOS days, and as Mike has noted Turbo Pascal was popular enough on the PC; it was more, I think, that the UCSD-style language-environment-as-OS paradigm never caught on in the microcomputer world. Early consumer micros of course had ROM BASIC, but once you got past that to a reasonably full-featured operating system, there was no compelling reason for it to be tightly coupled to one particular language/compiler when it could just as easily treat compilers as Yet Another Program and support arbitrarily many.

1 year, 2 months

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DEC Qbus/Massbus?

by W2HX

Was there ever a massbus controller card for qbus systems? 73 Eugene W2HX My Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos

1 year, 2 months

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Re: Random items on Pascal #6

by Fred Cisin

OK This seems to be the one that the list choked on (possibly due to special quote characters? On Thu, May 9, 2024, 2:07 AM david barto via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > At Ken Bowles retirement from UCSD (Ken was the lead of the UCSD Pascal > Project) he related a story that IBM came to UCSD after being "rejected" > by DR to see if the Regents of the University would license UCSD Pascal (the > OS and the language) to IBM for release on the new hardware IBM was > developing. The UC Regents said "no" > He was quite sad that history took the very different course. well, it wasn't quite a "rejected by DR". But, the culture clash certainly did strengthen IBM's desire for CP/M alternatives. And, they DID cut a deal with Softech/UCSD-Regents to have UCSD P-system as one of the original operating systems for the 5150. The "very different course" of the market going with CP/M and MS-DOS, rather than P-System, was due to many factors. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com

1 year, 2 months

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Re: FWIW CD & DVD demagnetization [was: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks]

by D. Resor

Next they'll want silver oxygen free plated plumbing and sewage pipes in their homes. Silver plated toilet seats? Walls insulated with Palladium coated corn silk threads? Seems the subject has really gone astray?.... Lions, Tigers and Bears oh my! 😲) Don Resor -----Original Message----- From: Sellam Abraham via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2024 7:01 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Cc: Sellam Abraham <sellam.ismail(a)gmail.com> Subject: [cctalk] Re: FWIW CD & DVD demagnitizitation [was: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks] Why stop there? A truly dedicated audiophile would run new pure silver electrical wire through the walls directly to the breaker box. Then you gotta upgrade to the breaker box that was disinfected from transient spirits through an exorcism, and then special 24K solid gold-contact breakers in inert nylon housings. Sellam

1 year, 2 months

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Re: Random items on Pascal #5

by Fred Cisin

UCSD P-system could only allocate contiguous disk space. So a disk that had become "checkerboarded" by writing and deletng files had to be defragmented, using a spplied utility called "Crunch". Was that adequately protected against catastrophes caused by interruption? Softech and UCSD Regents filed trademark registration for "XenoFile", and listed it as a product, but as near as I can tell, NEVER sent out any copies. (February 1987, I went to the Patent and Trademark Office outside of Washington, Dc, and researched some trademarks, in preparation for my trademark registration) They also announced a "universal disk format" for ALL machines, but never had a clue about how to do anything compatible with FM, MFM, and GCR.

1 year, 2 months

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Re: Random items on Pascal #2

by Fred Cisin

> The SAGE II that had native Pascal (68000) was > not a popular machine. Waterloo Pascal on the SuperPet....Pascal never > really made it on the microcomputer platform did it? Bob Wallace (Microsoft's tenth employee) wrote the Micorsoft MS-DOS Pascal compiler. He told me not to use the runtime library, which was also then included with Microsoft Fortran, etc. Later, he left Microsoft when an appointment became necessary to talk to billg, and formed "Quicksoft", selling PC-Write (a significant player in "shareware")

1 year, 2 months

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Re: Random items on Pascal #1

by Fred Cisin

Did not make it to the list, so I am breaking it up and re-sending it in pieces > Without doing the research before asking, there was the UCSD p-System > Pascal for IBM PC which came out very early in the history of the IBM PC. > It was not very popular. In the original 5150 launch (August 1981), the operating systems announced were availability of PC-DOS and/or UCSD P-System, and CP/M-86 was "coming soon".

1 year, 2 months

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Altair 8800 50th birthday...

by William Sudbrink

Based on what I have read, along with a few discussions I have had with people involved in the early S-100 "scene" around now is the 50th birthday (or conception day) of the Altair 8800. Certainly, next year could properly be called its 50th birthday. Anyway, I'm thinking about "painting the show blue" with Altairs and IMSAIs for the next few vintage computer festivals. Anyone else interested? Bill S. -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com

1 year, 2 months

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Last Buy notification for Z80 (Z84C00 Product line)

by Peter Schow

In case you missed it, Zilog has issued a Last Buy notification for the Z80: https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Littelfuse_PCN_Z84C00.pdf Looks like Mouser and Digikey still have decent inventory of them.

1 year, 2 months

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Recordak Magnaprint Microfiche Printer Free

by Don

Hello all, I have a Recordak Magnaprint microfiche printer/reader. It appears to be in decent cosmetic condition but I am not sure if it works or if it is complete. This thing used photosensitized paper and some kind of developer to make positive copies of microfiche reels or sheets. https://archive.org/details/TNM_Recordak_Magnaprint_Reader_microfilm_reader… I don't have space to keep this thing, but I would like to save it from being scrapped if possible. Free for pickup near Buffalo, NY. Contact me if interested! Don

1 year, 2 months

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What to take to a vintage computer show

by brad＠techtimetraveller.com

Just reaching out to anyone who has exhibited at a vintage computing festival before. After years of only being able to watch others attend the ones that happen in the US, we are finally getting one in BC here. Super excited. I was invited both to speak and to exhibit, and they even got me two tables which is awesome. Like, how do you prepare for these things? What things that you didn't think of going into your first show do you wish you had? I have a pretty eclectic collection, and some really rare stuff (like my Mark-8s) that I'd love to bring but am hesitant about due to the risks of transportation damage and theft (from the car mostly, not the convention itself). Just trying to decide what to bring and how focused to be in terms of theme. Brad

1 year, 2 months

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Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

by Don R

Maybe I need one of these power cords for my Monroe-Litton 1830 aka Compucorp 485. It might make the calculations more precise? ;) Don Resor Sent from someone's iPhone > On May 6, 2024, at 8:55 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > On 5/6/24 20:25, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > https://www.ebay.com/itm/134706639303 >> include a basic feature for rewinding rental DVDs before returning them. > Of course, you need a pure silver AC cable for those: > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/115970049389 > > --Chuck

1 year, 2 months

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Re: Altair 8800 50th birthday...

by Smith, Wayne

"November 19, 1974" is what is written on the "Date of Publication of This Issue" line in Copyright "Form B" (for periodicals) used at the time. The form then states "The copyright law defines the 'date of publication' as '. . . the earliest date when copies . . . were placed on sale, sold or publicly distributed." The form is then signed pursuant to 17 U.S.C. sec. 506(e), which provided for a substantial fine in the event that any false representation was made on the form. There is no reason to doubt the date of publication in the notice. In fact, there is every reason to believe it is correct. In the magazine business it is a routine business practice to have actual publication occur months prior to the "cover date" the publisher places on the magazine. The reason for this is so that the magazines could remain on the newsstands for at least a few months without appearing to be stale. This is particularly the case with magazines published on a monthly cadence. Just as a check, I looked up the publication date of the January 1975 issue of Playboy. According to the copyright registration, it was November 20, 1974. > Date: Mon, 6 May 2024 01:27:28 +0000 (UTC) > From: ED SHARPE <couryhouse(a)aol.com> > Subject: [cctalk] Re: Altair 8800 50th birthday... > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Cc: Sellam Abraham <sellam.ismail(a)gmail.com> > Message-ID: <1726519925.3966543.1714958848839(a)mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Perhaps After doing the layout work in the November it was perhaps > copyrighted Immediately during layout But it did not ship Until January > Think! back in those days things did not instantly happen and we're instantly > shipped Ed# > > Sent from AOL on Android > > On Fri, May 3, 2024 at 7:09 AM, Sellam Abraham via > cctalk<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: On Fri, May 3, 2024, 1:28 AM Smith, > Wayne via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > wrote: > > > I looked up the Jan. 1975 issue of Popular Electronics in the > > Copyright Office's Periodicals Digest. It was published on Nov. 19, > > 1974 if you are looking for an actual anniversary date. > > > > The January issue was certainly not available in November of 1974. > > When did it actually get sent out and start showing up in people's mailboxes? > > Sellam >

1 year, 2 months

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Vintage Computer and Technology Swap Meet - Wall, NJ - June 22, 2024

by Jeffrey Brace

Same place as last year in the big parking lot across from Brookdale and down the street from InfoAge Science and History Museums. We have the Southern Monmouth County Firehouse museum selling food and drinks in the middle. This is a fundraiser for both museums (VCF and Firehouse museum) which are both part of InfoAge. All the info is here: https://vcfed.org/vcf-swap-meet/ Thanks! Jeff Brace VCF Mid-Atlantic Event Manager Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity

1 year, 2 months

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Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

by Bill Gunshannon

On 5/6/2024 2:28 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote: > You do need a very strong magnet. I’ve put 3.5 floppies on top of > a mag tape demagnitizer ( not technically called that, but you know > what i mean) and it had no effect at all. I could still read them fine > in my pc. I surmised that the magnetic field generated was not strong > enough to get through the plastic disk shield. Gave up after that. And yet, I have a cheap Radio Shack tape degauzer and it erases 3.5" disks just fine. I do it all the time whenever I have one that refuses to reformat. Quick pass over the degauzer and they usually work fine. If not, time to toss them. As for 720K disks I bought a box of new ones (12 boxes actually) several years ago on eBay and expect they will out last me. Especially now that I am moving everything to Goteks. bill

1 year, 2 months

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Netflix Series: American Conspiracy/Octopus Murders

by Jonathan Katz

Hey everyone, My better half recently turned this on and also a podcast with the creator/director. They mentioned they visited "someone" with a working VAX 11/780 to get b-roll footage for the movie. Which one of us was it? :D In all seriousness, it would be fun to try and get a vintage copy of the PROMIS software running on something (I assume it was VAX/VMS in its original incarnation, but many other screenshots show SNA/greenscreen implementations.) Cheers, all! -- -Jon +44 7792 149029

1 year, 2 months

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Re: Altair 8800 50th birthday...

by Smith, Wayne

I looked up the Jan. 1975 issue of Popular Electronics in the Copyright Office's Periodicals Digest. It was published on Nov. 19, 1974 if you are looking for an actual anniversary date. -W > On Saturday, April 27th, 2024 at 07:14, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > Magazine cover january, and into 1975 the revolution. So I'd say > > > all > > > > I had that magazine. Wish I hadn't thrown it away oh so many years > > ago. > > This one? > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://archive.org/details/197511PopularE > lectronics__;!!AQdq3sQhfUj4q8uUguY!jsVD6bkUUnjpF4d8AeRUKyiCW6qk8LAqFsj > dYW5cjAK-kOsMp32O4FfrPI5l1lqnTNp6sXQsHpX35FsPAzYDMIHhl-uy-NSC5w$ > > The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415/510] > WWW: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://drwho.virtadpt.net/__;!!AQdq3sQhfU > j4q8uUguY!jsVD6bkUUnjpF4d8AeRUKyiCW6qk8LAqFsjdYW5cjAK-kOsMp32O4FfrPI5l > 1lqnTNp6sXQsHpX35FsPAzYDMIHhl-u9z1M8kw$ > Don't be mean. You don't have to be mean > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://vintagecomputer.net/altair-poptronics.c… (Jan and Feb)

1 year, 2 months

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Re: 5,34 Petaflop System Cheyenne

by Ali

>Fairly sure you could find something to run Doom >that uses less than 1.7MWBut what's the point of buying this monstrosity if not to play Doom? It is like SEVEN years old. ;)

1 year, 3 months

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CP/M

by Murray McCullough

I came across an article that said CP/M came out in April 1974. I remember using this OS in the microcomputer world in the late 70’s; early 80’s. It came from PL/M, (Programming Language for Microcomputers) later renamed CP/M(Control Program for Microcomputers). I’m not sure what its legacy is though as far as I can recall it was wrapped up in litigation for quite some time. It was used in the 8-bit world but not sure what it's role was in the early PC world! Happy computing, Murray 🙂

1 year, 3 months

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IBM 360

by Murray McCullough

I had not realized the IBM 360 was 60 yrs. old this month. I worked on such a computer in the late 60s in Toronto. What one could do with 8 Kbytes of ram was remarkable! Happy computing Murray 🙂

1 year, 3 months

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Diablo Model 40 Series - Disturbed head positioning

by Dominique Carlier

Hello everyone I need your help to identify an issue on my Diablo Model 40 Series. I don't know where to look, it's so vast ! Here's the problem: When RUN is activated, the drive begins its spin up and simultaneously deploys the heads (normal) but instead of stabilizing them, the Head Positioner receives a burst of reverse/forward micro signals. The heads "vibrate", this creates an audible frequency "BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR", and it is infinite, the heads are never loaded and the drive never reaches READY. At first I thought that perhaps the track zero sensor was defective or something of the same order but when I disengage RUN mode, the drive unloads the heads and they should be in a fixed position, here they continue to reverse/forward but more slowly than in RUN mode. Because the heads continues to mess around even in unload mode, this a priori excludes alignment problems. Here is a video of that issue: https://youtu.be/HzzxLnSdEOg Other information, if I cut the power while the drive is in RUN mode, it does not do an emergency retraction of the heads, related problem? I was hoping for a power supply problem but all the voltages and even on the main board cage seem ok (with a multimeter). If one of you had already encountered this problem of lack of head stabilization and continuous reverse/forward on this type of drive? Thanks ! Dominique

1 year, 3 months

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MS-DOS source code

by wrcooke＠wrcooke.net

Some may find this interesting. Microsoft has released the source for MS-DOS versions 1.25, 2, and 4. https://github.com/microsoft/MS-DOS Will Grownups never understand anything by themselves and it is tiresome for children to be always and forever explaining things to them, Antoine de Saint-Exupery in The Little Prince

1 year, 3 months

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Re: Diablo Model 40 Series - Disturbed head positioning

by Dominique Carlier

Hi Don ! Good suggestion, these microswitches are used to indicate that the heads are completely retracted. Unfortunately, that would have been too simple, both microswitches work perfectly :-/ On 30/04/2024 19:43, D. Resor wrote: > What is the purpose of the two microswitches seen in the upper right > of the video view? > > Could one or both of those be intermittent? Have they been tested for > continuity/intermittence with an analog VOM? > > Don Resor > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dominique Carlier via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2024 8:47 AM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Cc: Dominique Carlier <dce(a)skynet.be> > Subject: [cctalk] Diablo Model 40 Series - Disturbed head positioning > > Hello everyone > > I need your help to identify an issue on my Diablo Model 40 Series. I > don't know where to look, it's so vast ! > > Here's the problem: > When RUN is activated, the drive begins its spin up and simultaneously > deploys the heads (normal) but instead of stabilizing them, the Head > Positioner receives a burst of reverse/forward micro signals. The > heads "vibrate", this creates an audible frequency > "BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR", and it is infinite, the heads are never loaded > and the drive never reaches READY. > > At first I thought that perhaps the track zero sensor was defective or > something of the same order but when I disengage RUN mode, the drive > unloads the heads and they should be in a fixed position, here they > continue to reverse/forward but more slowly than in RUN mode. > Because the heads continues to mess around even in unload mode, this a > priori excludes alignment problems. > > Here is a video of that issue: > > https://youtu.be/HzzxLnSdEOg > > Other information, if I cut the power while the drive is in RUN mode, > it does not do an emergency retraction of the heads, related problem? > I was hoping for a power supply problem but all the voltages and even > on the main board cage seem ok (with a multimeter). > > If one of you had already encountered this problem of lack of head > stabilization and continuous reverse/forward on this type of drive? > > Thanks ! > > Dominique >

1 year, 3 months

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Looking for Lomas board manual

by Richard Cini

All — I mostly lurk on the list now, but I am looking for a manual for the Lomas LightningOne 8086 CPU board. There doesn’t seem to be a good archive of manuals for the Lomas boards (and what’s out there is only partial). I have a project I’m working on with Lomas boards so looking to collect info, etc. Thanks! Rich -- Rich Cini http://cini.classiccmp.org

1 year, 3 months

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Looking for Lomas docs

by Richard Cini

All — I lurk mostly on the list now, but I’m looking for a copy of the manual for the Lomas LightningOne 8086 CPU card and schematics. It doesn’t seem to be anywhere on-line so if someone has a copy they’d be willing to scan, it’d be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Rich -- Rich Cini http://cini.classiccmp.org

1 year, 3 months

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CDC and IBM Schoonschip

by James Liu

Hi, As some of you may recall, a few years ago I asked for assistance reading a 9 track tape containing IBM S/360 source for Martinus Veltman's computer algebra program, Schoonschip (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schoonschip). With Chuck's assistance, we recovered all the code from the tape. After working with the principals involved, I am pleased to announce that the source code is now publicly available at: https://vsys.physics.lsa.umich.edu/ Actually, I was always more interested in the original CDC 6600 source code, as that is the more historically significant code. While that was not contained on the 9 track tape, I did receive a copy from the Veltman family, and that is also available from the above website. I have limited experience with big iron, but I had very good success getting Schoonschip compiled and running on dtCyber. Veltman also provided example Schoonschip programs (YNGLING), and as far as I can tell they run perfectly in CDC Schoonschip on dtCyber. However, I have not been fully successful in getting IBM Schoonschip to run on hercules under OS/360 MVT. The main issue I had was that the Fortran part of Schoonschip uses REAL*16, which apparently requires the H extended Fortran compiler that does not seem to be freely available. I did patch the Fortran code to avoid extended precision and managed to get Schoonschip running, but it would sometimes crash on some input files. I do not know if that is a problem with my patches or an actual bug in the original code (as the IBM version of Schoonschip was still a work in progress at the time development stopped). In any case, anyone who is interested is welcome to have their own go at the code. The third evolution of Schoonschip (m68k code, which was written after Veltman came to the University of Michigan) is also available at the same website. - jim -- James T. Liu, Professor of Physics 3409 Randall Laboratory, 450 Church Street, Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1040 Tel: 734 763-4314 Fax: 734 763-2213 Email: jimliu(a)umich.edu

1 year, 3 months

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Charles Stross, replay the bubble of 1995, alt history plus retrocomp

by Tomasz Rola

Well, if you are into this kind of stuff (I am)... Stross is an s-f author, formerly a programmer (ages ago but I think it still shows - perhaps he secretly writes his own tools in Perl) and he has a blog. This time, he explores the idea that internet "bub" delivered on its promises, rather than sucking investors up. http www.antipope.org charlie/blog-static/2024/04/the-radiant-future-of-1995.html Of course, readers make comments, so it gets a bit more interesting. -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home ** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_rola@bigfoot.com **

1 year, 3 months

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Re: Z80 vs other microprocessors of the time.

by Robert Feldman

The Otrona Attache 8:16 had a Z80A and an 8086 on a daughter card. Bob

1 year, 3 months

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Fwd: CG14 and 16bit colour

by David Brownlee

In case anyone is interested in poking their cg14/sx in new and exciting ways :-p ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Michael <macallan1888(a)gmail.com> Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2024 at 07:55 Subject: CG14 and 16bit colour To: <port-sparc(a)netbsd.org> Hello, I did a lot of work on the cgfourteen, sx and xf86-video-suncg14 drivers, one thing I didn't expect was people asking for 8bit acceleration in X, mostly because with a 4MB cg14 you're limited to 1152x900 in 24bit colour, in 8bit you could go all the way to 1920x1200. So I wrote code for that. Looking at the headers files, it looks like at least the DAC supports 16bit colour as well, which would allow 1600x1200 in more than 8bit colour. Getting SX to deal with 16bit quantities is not difficult, at least for basic stuff like copy, fill and ROP operations. Xrender would be more difficult since there is no easy way to separate / re-unite the colour channels of a 16bit pixel. For 32bit it's trivial, SX has instructions to split 32bit accesses to four registers, even lets you pick which byte to take. So we wouldn't get xrender acceleration. Then again, we don't have that in 8bit either. The DAC is an Analog Devices ADV7152, and I just found the datasheet - in 16bit mode we get R5G5B5, nothing unusual here. That said, cg14 seems to use the DAC only for gamma correction, we don't mess with it at all even when switching to 8bit, so who knows what exactly cg14 feeds it when we set pixel mode to 16bit. Shouldn't be difficult to figure out though. I guess what I'm getting at is - does anyone particularly care about this? I don't mind doing this as yet another Just Because I Can(tm) project but if anyone cares I'd welcome their input. have fun Michael

1 year, 3 months

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PDP 8 / 11 via Raspberry Pi

by Tarek Hoteit

Mike, any tips or guidelines for running an emulated PDP on a Raspberry Pi ? Regards, Tarek Hoteit > On Apr 21, 2024, at 08:08, Mike Katz via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > Well my PDP-8 was built in 1974 and is still running (with careful maintenance). My PiDP-8/I has been up and running continuously with a Raspberry PI 3B running it for about 5 years now. My PiDP-11 has been up and running with a PI-4B for more than 4 years continuously. > > Though I agree with your comment that the PDP-8 was built to last (just ignore the disintegrated foam used between the motherboard and the case or on the case top) I have PCs that are more than 10 years old that are still running. > > As for the RP2040 being cheap crap, I beg to differ with you. It is a solid chip, produced in 10s of millions at least. And, I would bet, a better quality chip than your Z-80, if due only to improved IC manufacturing technologies. > > Just because it's old doesn't make it good. I worked on a 32KHz 4 Bit CPU (about 20 years ago) where the development hardware was very unstable and the tool chain not a whole lot better. > > Early Microsoft and Lattice C compilers for the PC were buggy as hell. If you want I can list a few bugs from each of them in another thread. > > One of the biggest features of the Z-80, the extra register set, was rarely used in open source software in order to maintain compatibility with the 8080. > > Some of the early Z-80 CP/M tools did not work because they were derived from 8080 tools. After time the tools got better. That is the case with any piece of software. If it doesn't become obsolete and if maintained it will get better over time. > > > >> On 4/21/2024 1:09 AM, ben via cctalk wrote: >>> On 2024-04-20 8:33 p.m., Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: >>> For anything more sophisticated than your coffee pot the RP2040 from Raspberry Pie is a fantastic little chip, dual core 133 MHz Cortex M0+ with 8 PIO engines, 264K of RAM, ADC, UART, SPI, I2C all for under a dollar. I designed a fully functional RP2040 with 16 Mb flash for under $2.00. In large enough quantities that's encroaching on 8 bit PIC territory at over 1000 times the memory and CPU power. >> >> I am wishing for a Quality Product, cheap crap is not always better. >> USB comes to mind. >> 256Kb ram is only 32K 64 bit words. Cache memory never works. >> My $5 internet toaster, just exploded after 3 days. >> So what? Just buy the new model that works with windows 12. >> Download a buggy new tool chain. The Z80 tools worked. >> >> >> The PDP8 was built to last. 50+ years and going strong. >> NOT the crappy PI PDP-8 or PDP-10. I give it 2 years max. >> Now a PI style computer with compact FLASH x 2, NO USB >> and 2 MEG ram , real serial and printer ports that will work >> in a noisy industrial setting, would be quite usefull. >> I'd pay even $3 for it. :) >> >> >> >> >

1 year, 3 months

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Apple II

by Adam Thornton

Mostly to Bill, but also anyone else hanging out here who's got a surfeit of 8-bit Apple stuff: If you're planning on selling the Apple II, and it's not a ][+, I'd be interested in buying. Not, perhaps, at optimistic eBay prices, but I have a lot of ][+s and //es, most of them in working shape, some of which are parts machines; however, I don't have either a II or a //c . Also happy to trade if I've got things you want. I don't have anything super-exotic, but feel free to HMU and ask. Adam

1 year, 3 months

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