- cctalk - classiccmp.org

by Christian Liendo

I'm sorry if this has been asked before. How can I send PDFs to Bitsavers? I know I cannot just FTP and create a directory. I am looking on the website but I am probably not reading what is right in front of me. Any help would be appreciated.

2 months, 3 weeks

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Wang TTL BASIC

by Steve Lewis

Is anyone out there familiar with the Wang 2200 BASIC? Of about 1973/1974 C. Corti, I think you still have one of these complete and runnable? My question is, was its basically really "built" using TTL logic/chips? The system didn't really have a microprocessor (neither did the early Alto, right?) I recall that system had many boards, the whole "CPU" box was external to the monitor (and in the earliest versions, the power supply was also a large external box). I can't really fathom creating a BASIC out of raw TTL, or maybe I'm misunderstanding the approach. -Steve

2 months, 3 weeks

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Wang TTL BASIC

by Bob Yates

Schematics for your viewing pleasure. More detailed information can be found in other parts of the website. https://www.wang2200.org/schematics.html

2 months, 4 weeks

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PDP-11 hardware clock

by Peter Ekstrom

Hello PDP-11 Gurus, I am looking for a better time-keeping alternative than the LTC in my PDP-11/23-PLUS. Is the KWV11-C card the best option for that or are there other options? I have looked around a bit and have seen some other RTC boards but don't know if they would work. -Peter

2 months, 4 weeks

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Re: Looking for an IF-20 interface for an Brother AX-45 typewriter

by Stefaan Ponnet

I'm attempting to interface with the 15-pin connector on the AX-45. I'm assuming it uses a similar protocol as the IF-50 / IF-30 interface which has been described in other forums https://forum.classic-computing.de/forum/index.php?thread/29023-panasonic-r… and has a working interface emulation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UJ5cyvNC_M I opened up the typewriter and traced the pins of the 15-pin centronics connector. So far I came up with this pin 1 : GND pin 2 : connected to the IC + has a pulldown resistor pin 3 : GND pin 4 : connected to the IC + has a pulldown resistor pin 5 : GND pin 6 : connected to the IC + has a pulldown resistor pin 7 : GND pin 8 : N/C pin 9 : N/C pin 10 : connected, but haven't been able to trace yet pin 11 : connected, but haven't been able to trace yet pin 12 : connected, but haven't been able to trace yet pin 13: N/C pin 14: N/C pin 15: N/C Probably these pins map to DATA CS CLK and ACK But this is still a work in progress - If we can figure out how to get the typewriter to listen to our commands we're one step closer to getting it to print.

2 months, 4 weeks

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Re: Wang TTL BASIC

by cclist＠sydex.com

The Packard-Bell PB440 (1963) was microprogrammable: https://bitsavers.org/pdf/packardBell/PB-440/SP-149A_PB-440_microprogrammin… Various earlier systems used microprogram-like techniques, but I don't know how many were earlier than PB in their use of the word. Was the PB-250's floating point microprogrammed? --Chuck

2 months, 4 weeks

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Mac SE disk cleaning

by Brian Knittel

Passing on a request: anyone know of a way to erase user data off a Mac SE hard disk that will leave the disk and Mac OS intact? The machine works and could go to a new home but has privileged medical data on it so just deleting files isn’t sufficient — the free space has to be overwritten. Are there any utilities available on floppy disk that could do it? Plan B is taking a sledgehammer to the drive, but seems a waste to go right to euthanasia if there’s another option.

2 months, 4 weeks

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QRAM-2 SAB-1 manual?

by Peter Ekstrom

So I have one of these boards, but I haven't been able to locate a manual for this specific one. Does anyone have the manual for this specific board? - Peter

3 months

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kennett classic surplus sale open, NeXT cube for sale, more.

by Bill Degnan

https://www.kennettclassic.com/surplus/ Lots of items remain. Priced cheap for pick-up only Also have a complete NeXT cube with display, mouse, keyboard. SCSI2SD card harddrive installed. Works $2700. Will consider shipping this. Contact me privately with questions. Bill

3 months

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Compute's Gazette returning

by wrcooke＠wrcooke.net

I saw on the BASIC Programming group on FaceBook that a new venture is going to start publishing Compute's Gazette again. https://www.computesgazette.com/ Perhaps interesting to some of you. Will You just can't beat the person who never gives up. Babe Ruth

3 months

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2.5" PATA drives

by Van Snyder

I have some working 2.5" PATA drives 30GB - 1 40GB - 3 60GB - 2 80GB - 2 100GB - 1 They're yours for a PDF of a shipping label.

3 months

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decuslib.com

by Henry Bent

Hi all, Is anyone else having trouble with decuslib.com? I can connect but I never get a response from the server. -Henry

3 months

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VCF MW talk open

by Steve Lewis

This past Saturday at a local retro meetup, it was announced there was still at least 1 open spot for a speaker/presentation at VCF SW (Dallas) this June. Just passing the word, if anyone is in the area at that time and interested to speak on a topic vintage-computing related. There should be a signup at the VCF SW page.

3 months

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VCF Swap Meet June 7, 2025 in Wall, NJ

by Jeffrey Brace

https://vcfed.org/vcf-swap-meet/ Jeff Brace

3 months

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Re: Digital Intelligence UltraBlock-SCSI bridge to USB/FW

by John Foust

At 11:34 PM 4/24/2025, Travis Pierce via cctalk wrote: >I just now used one tonight to image a JAZ disk that I found. I used DD on >a modern Linux box. These little bridges do come in handy and are pretty >convenient. I really like mine quite a bit. I was hoping they just present the SCSI drive as a block device to the operating system, did not require proprietary software, and that they'd work under modern Windows as well. >My only criticism is that >once you have it all connected (USB, Power, SCSI Drive) there are >literally wires everywhere, but that's just how SCSI was. And then there's the blood sacrifice. Fortunately I have bales of cables. At 10:19 PM 4/24/2025, Henry Bent wrote: >Oh, one more click and I would have gotten there...Â <https://web.archive.org/web/20060831144110/http://www.digitalintelligence.c…>https://web.archive.org/web/20060831144110/http://www.digitalintelligence.c… That is the bridge for forensically reading USB devices. Mine is for SCSI devices, like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/387890903599 or https://web.archive.org/web/20060421102553/http://www.digitalintelligence.c… I looked at https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.digitalintelligence.com/files/* but did not see the UltraBlock model "T4" manual. - John

3 months

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GRiD archive anywhere?

by Steve Lewis

Been messing around with a GRiD system recently - I'm not seeing a solid archive of things like PDFs and ROMs for that system. And I've heard a rumor there used to be one, but it went offline a few years back? Mostly I'm looking for GPIB related info, and maybe either native GRiD drivers or some compatible MS-DOS drivers to use the GPIB port on that system. Here some images and reference info of what I've learned so far about a late-model (but before Tandy) GRiD system... https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?forums/grid-systems.82/ I'm also hunting around for one of those GRiD disk drives, if there is any spare standalone one not bundled with another existing system. -Steve

3 months

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Re: Digital Intelligence UltraBlock-SCSI bridge to USB/FW

by John Foust

I found the manual: https://web.archive.org/web/20100215085042/http://www.digitalintelligence.c… As it was sold as part of a kit of three. - John

3 months, 1 week

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Digital Intelligence UltraBlock-SCSI bridge to USB/FW

by John Foust

I was curious and had a spare benjamin for one of these from eBay, thinking it would be a handy USB to SCSI adapter for convenient imaging of old drives, as it was mentioned as one a month or two ago on the Reddits. I'd like to find a manual and hear anecdotes. Mine is a model T4, has USB 2.0 and Firewire 800, circa 2005. I was surprised to see they were made in New Berlin, WI. I don't see any mention of this model on their web site https://digitalintelligence.com/ nor any mention of "ultrablock" in my CCtalk archives. - John

3 months, 1 week

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Converting raw images to floppy images

by Bill Gunshannon

Can anyone here tell me what tool I can use to create DSK, DMK or IMD files from files with the extensions "raw" and VOL? I am once again trying to get the CPM Adaptable System for UCSD Pascal to work on an emulator. I would also like to try and get the PDP-11 version of UCSD Pascal running again and that requires the same ability. bill

3 months, 1 week

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2.5" disk drives

by Van Snyder

I have several 2.5" disk drives, some PATA, some SATA, ranging from 9GB to 130 GB. Do you need any? Send a PDF for a shipping label.

3 months, 1 week

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3.5" mounting brackets

by Van Snyder

I have mounting brackets for 3.5" disk drives in an Antec Sonata III 500 case. They're nice metal trays with mounting holes on the bottom and spring metal clips on the sides to hold them into the panel inside the case. For some reason, I have six of them, but the case has only four slots. Does anybody need them? https://archive.org/details/manualzilla-id-7235982

3 months, 1 week

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Paul Anderson?

by Tom Hunter

I have been talking with Paul Anderson about some PDP-11/05 parts. End of January Paul wrote about medical problems and possible surgery. I have not been able to get in touch with him since and hope he is OK. Has anyone here heard anything about Paul since January? Thanks Tom

3 months, 1 week

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RS232 Spec

by Steve Lewis

Hey gang, a few months ago I had found the 1968/1969 document spec of RS-232. But now, I'm unable to find it again ! At Internet Archive, there is one link/reference to it, but it appears to just be the cover page (which does have the date of August 1969). I see the EIA RS-232-C spec dated from 1991 (but I think that date is just marking when EIA took over stewardship of the standard, but the spec should reflect/match the original 1969 one). In the manual for the DataSet 103C (from a few years earlier than 1969), it outlines signal lines all labeled like RS-232. But I wouldn't call it an RS-232 spec. Like most standards, it takes a number of years for a community/critical mass of products to understand it and adopt it correctly. Even ASCII wasn't globally recognized and adopted until maybe 15 years after it was introduced? So I was trying to track down the "earliest mention" of RS-232, to pinpoint it really being from 1962. Technically it appears the EIA "guards" that spec, and makes it expensive to officially download it. Maybe they took an initiative to try to scrub earlier editions from the public web, maybe that's why it's harder to find now? But I was pretty sure I found a scanned copy of it at some point (the Aug 1969 one). If anyone happens to have a printer version (of a 1969 or earlier RS-232 spec) - it would at least be nice to know that exists somewhere. I'm pretty sure that "original spec" called out +/- 3 to 25V, later ones maybe used 20V or 15V. -Steve

3 months, 1 week

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PDP-8 and PDP-12 Paper Tape Images Posted (Re: Paper Tape Reader Needed)

by Jay Jaeger

I have posted my PDP8 and PDP12 paper tape images onto my Google Drive (where they are also available to CHM/Al Kossow for their "bits" collection. https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2v4WRwISEQRWWFFdVpCZWFTZEU&resourcekey=0… Look in bits/DEC/pdp8 and bits/DEC/pdp12 for folders "From_JayJaeger". There is a PDF of the contents of BOTH directories in each one (it is the same PDF in each case). JRJ

3 months, 1 week

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Re: RS232 Spec

by donald donaldwhittemore.com

FWIW, both Grok and ChatGPT say the same thing. The RS-232 standard was first described in 1960 by the Electronic Industries Association (EIA). Its full original designation was EIA RS-232, where “RS” stands for Recommended Standard.

3 months, 1 week

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Looking for Tiny BASIC Extended source code

by Eric Scharff

Many years ago (March 2007 to be precise), I posted to this mailing list because I had typed in (by hand) the octal listing of TBX (Tiny BASIC Extended) from Dr Dobbs Vol. 1 No. 1, pp 16-17( It turns out that this 8080 code basically worked and I was able to verify it in a Z-80 simulator. Fast forward to 2025, and I have rediscovered this code and posted it to GitHub. I have also included an 8080 emulator in JavaScript so you can run TBX in your browser: https://github.com/ericscharff/tinybasic While keying in two pages of octal listings was an interesting exercise, I’m less keen to type in the source code for TBX, which appeared in Vol 1 No 2, pp 13-31. I’d like to preserve this source code alongside the octal dump in my github repository. Does anyone happen to have a listing of this source code in ASCII, or perhaps access to high quality OCR software that could perhaps automate the job? The closest I can find is on Whipple’s own web site athttps://whippleway.com/Source_Code/TBX.asm Which seems quite close, but is missing things from the first TBX (e.g., FOR / NXT loops) Many thanks, -Eric

3 months, 1 week

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SLIP TCP/IP stack for PRO/VENIX

by Cameron Kaiser

Way back when, I asked on the list about null modems for the DEC Pro which I planned to use for experiments with SLIP. PRO/VENIX doesn't have any network capability other than UUCP, and it doesn't seem like anything else supports the Ethernet CTI card other than P/OS (of course) and the unofficial 2.9BSD, but I like PRO/VENIX V2.0 better because it's a real System V. Anyway, here's a simple implementation with four clients (ping, DNS, NTP and command-reply TCP) which runs over the printer port at the standard 4800bps. That keeps the main serial port free as a second terminal and for Kermit. Getting it to work with both the PRO/VENIX Rev. 2.0 and V2.0 compilers (i.e., older-than-V7 and System V respectively) was interesting. Unfortunately Xhomer's serial port emulation isn't good enough for this yet; many dropped bytes. It works fine with my real DEC Pro 380. https://oldvcr.blogspot.com/2025/04/lets-give-provenix-barely-adequate-pre.… https://github.com/classilla/bass -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser(a)floodgap.com -- God made the integers; all else is the work of Man. -- Kronecker -----------

3 months, 1 week

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VCF East 2025 Survey Results

by Jeffrey Brace

VCF East 2025 Survey results: https://www.surveymonkey.com/stories/SM-chUD9AoxbzNkIk230AwghQ_3D_3D/ Jeff Brace VCF East Showrunner

3 months, 1 week

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System Source Swap Meet April 26 & 27, 2025 (Hunt Valley, MD)

by Jeffrey Brace

More info here: https://ca.syssrc.com/wp/?page_id=105&civiwp=CiviCRM&q=civicrm%2Fevent%2Fin…

3 months, 2 weeks

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VCF East photo gallery

by William Sudbrink

Commodore Z has put up a very nice gallery of photos of VCF East 2025: https://www.commodorez.com/VCFEXX/index.html Bill S. -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com

3 months, 2 weeks

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RK11-D register address assignment

by Jos Fries

The "RK11-D and RK11-E moving head disk drive controller manual" (EK-RK11D-MM-002) states in par. 2.5 (Installation Procedure) that the register and vector addresses of a RK11-D can be configured by "seven interrupt vector address jumpers and eight address selection jumpers of the M7257". The manual however doesn't state the address range that can be configured by these jumpers and refers to engineering drawing D-CS-M7257-0-1 for that information. I found these drawings in the RK11-D Engineering Drawings but cannot find information in them on the valid address ranges. Therefore my question: what is the address range a RK11 controller can be configured for?

3 months, 2 weeks

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Looking for VAX/VMS v4.x Software

by Christian Gauger-Cosgrove

Greetings, Long story short, as the subject line says, I'm looking for some VAX/VMS v4 era software. I've been working on putting together a "turnkey" VMS v4.7 system — I've mentioned it over on the SIMH mailing list once or twice, and if anyone is on the ClassicCMP Discord server, Mainframe Enthusiasts Discord Server, or DEC Discord¹, you've likely seen me mention it multiple times — and I'm currently trying to copies of some of layered products. To the crux of the issue, does anyone here have — as an image, or media that they are are willing to image/have imaged — the installation media for the following software for VAX/VMS v4.x? • VAX NOTES • VAX P.S.I. • VAXset/DECset — specifically the Language Sensitive Editor • CGRAF and CIMI And just because I have a deep loathing for myself: • Eunice I'm also always open to any other software for VMS v4.x if anyone has any they want to share. Best regards, Christian ¹: "The Digital Equipment Corporation Fan Spot", as it's named properly. -- Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove STCKON08DS0 Contact information available upon request.

3 months, 2 weeks

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ThornEMI Datatech 9800 9-track tape drive

by Lothar Schröder

G'day, I have a ThornEMI Datatech 9800 9-track tape drive. Has anyone a user- or service-manual or a description how to load a tape? This drive can load the 7" 9-track tape reels and has an industrial interface with edge-connectors P1 and P2. Thanks in advance Lothar

3 months, 2 weeks

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VCF West 2025, Exhibit Registration Open - August 1-2 - Computer History Museum

by Jeffrey Brace

VCF West 2025 Exhibit Registration Now Open!!! VCF West is August 1-2 at the Computer History Museum Register an exhibit here: https://forms.gle/vQj4PUJCidjFt9GF8

3 months, 2 weeks

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Is the mailing list down?

by Tom Hunter

I have received no messages for a while. Is the list down? Thanks Tom

3 months, 2 weeks

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classiccmp test mail

by P Gebhardt

Hi list, since I am not getting any emails from our classiccmp mailing list anymore since mid of March, I would like to send this test email and see if it arrives and gets back to me. Appologies for the noise created. Pierre ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.digitalheritage.de

3 months, 2 weeks

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Re: Paper Tape Reader Needed

by Anders Nelson

Oh right, that's an important piece haha. I imagine fusing that Arduino project mentioned earlier in the thread with an SPI RAM chip and little extra firmware should be able to grab any length of tape one may have. -- Anders Nelson On Sun, Apr 13, 2025, 4:59 PM Mike Katz <bitwiz(a)12bitsbest.com> wrote: > Plus the circuit and software to operate it and convert the data to serial > or USB CID. > > On Apr 13, 2025 3:10 PM, Anders Nelson via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > wrote: > > Here's a super cheap reader assembly you could bolt to a board, then hang > your supply reel from a bolt stuck in it if you're looking for the lowest > cost option: > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/224491588288 > -- > Anders Nelson > > On Sun, Apr 13, 2025, 6:49 AM Martin Bishop via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > The Sanyo Denki readers I have known use sprocket wheel feed, an > > additional means of damaging tapes. > > > > The Fanuc readers use a friction pinch, "rubber on steel", so they can't > > "saw" the tapes. > > > > Perhaps a consideration - if one has a choice > > > > Martin > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Chuck Guzis via cctalk [mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org] > > Sent: 13 April 2025 02:18 > > To: Ethan Dicks via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > > Cc: Chuck Guzis <cclist(a)sydex.com> > > Subject: [cctalk] Re: Paper Tape Reader Needed > > > > My PT reader is a Sanyo Denki, from a piece of CNC gear. (Bitsavers has > > some docs on those), Added a +5/+24 power suppy and a STM32 "Blue Pill" > > MCU interfacing as a USB communications device. > > > > Easy peasy and woks a treat. > > > > --Chuck > > > > >

3 months, 2 weeks

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Re: Selling Off My Q-Bus Collection

by donald donaldwhittemore.com

You may want to contact Dave. I believe he is doing things with this stuff. Ex-Microsoft software engineer. On X he is <https://x.com/davepl1968/status/1683904668127358976?s=58> Dave W Plummer<https://x.com/davepl1968?s=58> ⁦‪@davepl1968‬⁩<https://x.com/davepl1968?s=58>

3 months, 2 weeks

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VCF East 2025 is on The Verge!

by Jeffrey Brace

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BTxddKZbhA VCF East was a great success with great speakers, exhibitors, classes, consignment and attendees! Thanks to all the volunteers who helped make this show happen. I couldn't have done it without you! Also check out other videos from VCF East: https://vcfed.org/vcf-east-2025-videos/ and articles on the show: https://vcfed.org/vcf-east-2025-articles/ Jeff Brace VCF East Showrunner

3 months, 3 weeks

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Re: Paper Tape Reader Needed

by Martin Bishop

Folks The jpg I posted previously https://www.emeritus-solutions.com/papertape/fanuc/Pic16F13145FanucInterfac… says it all cryptically To unpack the approach: - ex CNC machine paper tape readers are available, the Fanuc ones are both common and susceptable to house training - so 1) is buy a fanuc PTR + interface : part nos and current picks below - the required supplies are 200 V 50/60 Hz ~23W, 24V DC at ~1A2, 5V DC ~325 mA - the Fanuc interface board is https://www.emeritus-solutions.com/papertape/fanuc/A20B-0007-075D_Ptr_Inter… series 74 TTL IO - my interface bodgit uses a PIC16F13145 EVB as it has 5V IO (which is just the thing for series 74) and some CLBs (a joke, but you have to walk the ground) - so 2) you need a https://www.microchip.com/en-us/development-tool/ev06m52a to convert parallel octets into serial output - the interconnect board is connectors and wiring, the one illustrated is built for ease rather than compactness - so 3) DIY time, [DrB] the wire list for marrying PTR and PIC[DrB] is in the .zip - a project archive for the PIC containing sources and binary is available for download https://www.emeritus-solutions.com/papertape/fanuc/FanucInterFace1.zip should contain working code for MPLAB/X - my Fanuc zoo https://www.emeritus-solutions.com/papertape/fanuc/visualise.php depicts the interconnect board https://www.emeritus-solutions.com/papertape/fanuc/Pic16F13145FanucInterfac… https://www.emeritus-solutions.com/papertape/fanuc/Pic16F13145FanucInterfac… FWIW I usually use a Zynq to interface PTRs, this design was an exploration of the 16F13145's capabilities, serendipitously providing a "uart" on an EVB solution The PTRs run the capstan continuously, the pinch roller is engaged by the centre off switch on the front panel: Manual - feeds tape, but does not assert DataValid; Auto - feeds tape and asserts DataValid. The PIC outputs octets when DataValid is asserted. The pinch roller is engaged when Auto or Manual is selected. The Brake Clamp is engaged when the NO foot pedal is closed. The PT feed is friction, the reader is opto with LED illumination. The A02B-0047-C061 is compact https://www.emeritus-solutions.com/papertape/fanuc/A02B-0047-C061_Ptr_Front…, but may not come with a Fanuc interface card A20B-007-075D https://www.emeritus-solutions.com/papertape/fanuc/A20B-0007-075D_Ptr_Inter… (which you will need). The A13B-0070-B001 is a 6U 19" rack panel https://www.emeritus-solutions.com/papertape/fanuc/A13B-0070-B001_Ptr_Bin_F… typically the interface card is attached to this panel So, picks from eBay.com are: https://www.ebay.com/itm/126851010269 https://www.ebay.com/itm/393980423195 although I have no idea if the PSU is any more than an ornament https://www.ebay.com/itm/233194641467 or https://www.ebay.com/itm/304005388602 plus https://www.ebay.com/itm/184870581852 or https://www.ebay.com/itm/293557099779 or with a diy panel https://www.ebay.com/itm/224491588288 etc etc More than one set of bits may be required to eliminate squeaks, but the simple PTRs usu seem to work Also, https://www.ebay.com/itm/150974081687 is RtR and uses the same IO interface card as its lesser siblings - I'm (still) reverse engineering the push button and remote logic which is for CNC Gcode use cases https://www.ebay.com/itm/167311496458 is 2nd generation RtR and I have yet to make mine work ...; item zero is stw a (mechanically damaged) AC PSU ... HtH, Fanuc also made a PPR Punch Printer Reader with a serial (usu 4800) baud interface https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/405256535393 This cookery makes serviceable PTRs out of inexpensive pre used readers - ten times cheaper than a PPR ? And of course my wiring sheet tells you how to hook up to your favorite hardware - game on ? Martin -----Original Message----- From: Mike Katz [mailto:bitwiz@12bitsbest.com] Sent: 11 April 2025 15:59 To: Martin Bishop <mjd.bishop(a)emeritus-solutions.com> Subject: Re: [cctalk] Paper Tape Reader Needed I'm intrigued... On 4/11/2025 5:54 AM, Martin Bishop wrote: > Mike > > If a clone of https://www.emeritus-solutions.com/papertape/fanuc/Pic16F13145FanucInterfac… would solve your problem I'm happy to share the cookery. > > With 60 Hz AC 300cps to a serial port (USB C); the 1/4" jack is for a foot pedal "hold". > > For US sources of readers see eg : https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=fanuc+tape+reader - $50 to $3000 for the same thing ... > > Martin > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Katz via cctalk [mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org] > Sent: 10 April 2025 17:10 > To: Tony Duell via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Cc: Mike Katz <bitwiz(a)12bitsbest.com> > Subject: [cctalk] Paper Tape Reader Needed > > I have acquired a bunch of PDP-8 and PDP-12 paper tapes and I need a reader so that I can archive them. > > Does anyone have a serial (RS-232) or USB reader or reader/punch that needs a good home or can be purchased for a reasonable price? > > Thank you, > > Mike > bitwiz(a)12bitsbest.com

3 months, 3 weeks

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Re: Why I am not worried about AI taking over the world!

by John Foust

At 12:39 PM 4/9/2025, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: >I'll continue to play with it but my initial reactions still stand. >No sign of intelligence and not ready for prime-time. What did you ask it to do? Exactly, I mean? When it didn't give you the answer you wanted, what did you say next? It would not surprise me if comp-sci departments now offer a major in writing GPT queries. Today's AI wranglers might be writing queries that range from a few words to a many pages of text. They're also having a conversation with it to refine their query. It's more than google.com circa 2005. Many of us spent years learning how to get better results from Google more often, after all. I don't have a problem with skepticism about it. Call it a parlor trick all day long, tell me it's not *truly* intelligent, but you should also examine it enough to get to the point where you'll say "that's truly an amazing and perhaps sometimes very useful parlor trick." - John

3 months, 3 weeks

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VCF East 2025 Post Event Survey

by Jeffrey Brace

Please take a few minutes to complete this anonymous survey about VCF East 2025. Your feedback is important and helps us in planning the next event. https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/YFLSKSW Thanks! Jeff Brace VCF East Showrunner

3 months, 3 weeks

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Altair BASIC Source Code released

by Murray McCullough

I wonder if this helped start the microcomputer revolution, OS-side, or was this a re-hash of what already was available? It's a historical event as per se but much more than that I'm not sure! Happy computing! Murray 🙂

3 months, 3 weeks

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Teletype in Cleveland

by Henry Bent

Not my listing, but I thought I would pass it on in case others were interested. https://nextdoor.com/for_sale_and_free/954bf8cc-66d6-4f41-a447-9c6aaae42ea3… -Henry

3 months, 3 weeks

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Why I am not worried about AI taking over the world!

by Bill Gunshannon

So, I am working on another fun project on my trusty old TRS-80's. I need the ability to do multi-line functions which TRS-80 BASIC does not support. But in hopes of finding something where someone added that capability in the distant past (there were lots of features added by various people over time) I decided to just try a Google Search. As we all know Google now begins results with an AI generated answer to your question. This is what I got: -------------------------------------------------------------------------- In TRS-80 BASIC, you can create multi-line functions (subroutines) using the DEF FN statement, allowing you to define a function that can perform a specific task and be called from different parts of your program. Here's how it works: DEF FN Statement: You use the DEF FN statement to define a function, followed by the function name (e.g., FNMyFunction), a set of parentheses for any arguments, and then the code that the function will execute. Example: 10 DEF FNC(X,Y) = X*X + Y*Y defines a function named FNC that takes two arguments (X and Y) and returns the sum of their squares. Function Call: To use the function, you simply call it by its name, passing in the necessary arguments. Example: 20 PRINT FNC(3,4) would print the value returned by the FNC function when called with arguments 3 and 4, which is 25. Multi-line Functions: You can extend the DEF FN statement to span multiple lines, allowing for more complex logic within the function. Example: Code 10 DEF FNC(X,Y) 20 LET TEMP = X * X 30 LET TEMP = TEMP + Y * Y 40 DEF FN END 50 PRINT FNC(3,4) This example defines a function that calculates the sum of squares of two numbers, but the calculation is broken down into multiple lines for readability. Key Points: Line Numbers: TRS-80 BASIC relies on line numbers, so make sure to use them appropriately when defining multi-line functions. Function Name: Function names must start with FN followed by a valid identifier (e.g., FNC, FNMyFunction). DEF FN END: You need to use DEF FN END to mark the end of the function definition, especially when using multi-line functions. Scope: Functions are defined within the scope of the program and are accessible from anywhere in the program. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Which is both wrong and totally absurd. And I see things all the time about letting AI write your code for you. Does anyone actually trust AI to write code? bill

3 months, 3 weeks

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Re: Philips P3800 key lock swtch

by donald donaldwhittemore.com

Lishi tools can decode the bitting. Surprised the locksmith did not use them. Just need to identify the keyway style. https://covertinstruments.com/collections/lishi-tools

3 months, 3 weeks

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Re: Altair BASIC Source Code released

by Alan Frisbie

Bob Grabau <rgrabau1(a)verizon.net> write: > As my memory serves, there was a class given by the Southern > California Computer Society (SCCS) in which the disassembled the > Altair Basic (not sure if it was the 4k or 8k version) and used the > output of that disassembly for the class. There was a guy who had the > complete annotated (by the class) of the source as printed out copies > in his trunk, which he just handed out to anyone that asked for it. > This was somewhere between 1975-1978 (76-77 most likely) when I was a > member of SCCS. I was part of that disassembly effort and remember it well! I'm pretty sure I still have my copy of it stashed away here. It was a lot of fun. I had been a very early (1974) user of the 8080 at NCR, and this gave me a chance to contribute to the knowledge base. One thing I intend to do with this listing is find a piece of code I worked to disassemble, and read the comments. As I recall, it was part of some error handling. It consisted of a string of three-byte instructions that did nothing important, but if you jumped into the second byte of one, it would (as I recall) act as a two-byte instruction and load a register with an error code. After executing that 2/3 instruction, it fell into the remaining string of three-byte instructions which did nothing of interest. At the end, it would take the value that had been loaded earlier and use it. I was simultaneously impressed and appalled by this space-saving coding technique. I'm disappointed that two printer pages are combined into a single PDF page, as it makes it a bit difficult to read. Still, it is a great window into the minds of Bill, Paul, and Monte. Alan Frisbie

3 months, 4 weeks

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Re: Why I am not worried about AI taking over the world!

by John Foust

"Ancient BASIC dialects" seems like a rather small obscure domain and as they say, they're not making any more of them. I'd think that if you trained an AI on enough examples, they'd do much better. The BASIC language isn't that complex compared to modern languages where people are finding AI as a useful assistant, like it or not. Think of it like old-school "pair programming" that gives you a friend in your cube to talk to. - John

4 months

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DCK11 doc

by dstalkowski＠ody.ca

I have a scan of the following: LSI-11 BUS INTERFAE CHIPKIT/PROGRAM CONTROL DCK11-AA,-AC October, 1977 Phil Champaigne Logic Products MR2-2/X6645 If someone is interested in a copy, preferably someone who can host it, please contact me. don

4 months

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Re: DEC Unibus variants

by shadoooo

The why not use a UniBone comment has merit, what will your (FPGA) > implementation add ? > Well, I know the Unibone! Surely is a very capable system for emulation of older hardware and interfaces. Also performances are good as far as I understand (I don't have one). I have the idea of extending the concept of Unibone. The new design shall be modular, composed by: - a main board hosting the SoM and common interfaces (Ethernet, SD, USB, console) - a bus module for specific bus / machine: support could be added for DEC / Data General / other? - an interchangeable interface module for an hardware device (SMD, Pertec, floppy, RX1/2, RL01/02, other). Any kind of interface could be supported, also for example ADC, DAC, maybe video to some limits...) If you have main module and bus module, you have a similar solution to Unibone / Qbone. However if you need to change bus type, you need to swap only the bus adapter (cheaper). If you have main and interfaces modules, you can control physical devices directly, and do anything with it. For example, you can dump / restore the content of a SMD disk at bit level, no need to know the controller format, etc. Similar to Kyroflux for floppy, but MUCH faster! Alternatively, you could also emulate the device at low level (for example a generic SMD disk). If you have a set of main, bus and interface modules, you can do anything as above, plus you can emulate a controller for a specific machine for a specific device. That said, implementing "anything" would be an infinite effort, but the platform is flexible, so support could be added step-by-step. So why an FPGA? A programmable logic can implement a true digital circuit, where the PRUs in the BeagleBone are processors. This means that in an FPGA the time is always precisely determined by a clock, in PRUs it is affected by the software execution. This means that a PRU can work quite well on an asynchronous bus, provided that sample rate is sufficient, even if not constant. But for a fast synchronous interface, i.e. when time is determined by an external clock, often embedded with data, no software approach can work steadily in my opinion. One thing is true: programming an FPGA is designing a netlist, not developing a software. It can be very hard to debug sometimes, because the approach is more similar to repairing an old board with a Logic Analyzer than perform debugging in software: it's a circuit in a chip, there no step-by-step execution! Nevertheless: I'm a quite good electronic engineer, highly experienced with digital logic and FPGA, so the hardware design wouldn't be a problem. Just a matter of time. Nowadays a SoM with a smaller AMD Zynq7010/7020 (a system-on-chip including an FPGA, plus dual core CPU, lot of peripherals) doesn't cost a lot, and have a great usage flexibility. Also brute computing power is superior to older BB. Why not try? I'm open to your comments. As for the UNIBUS unobtainable transceivers: I think the best solution is to use AM26S10 for drivers, and an LVC logic powered at 3.3v for receivers. Both are active parts costing nuts. I would try this approach. Andrea

4 months

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DEC Unibus variants

by shadoooo

Hello, I'm searching information about all existing variants of DEC Unibus in Dual/Quad/Hex flavors. I read the "UnibusSpec1979.pdf" on bitsavers, which reports a "Standard Unibus" pinout in the last pages. However in several backplanes "Small Peripheral Controller", "Modified Unibus Device" and "Extended Unibus" are supported. Maybe also other unlisted Unibus variants do exist (e.g VAX 11/730)? I also found the gunkies.org WIKI very helpful, however it is still quite difficult to compare the pinout differences (dummy proof). Where could I find a specific DEC documentation about the more recent variants, similar to the 1979 specs, but referred to SPC, MUD, EUB, ect? Big doubts: - why DEC, having defined the dual Standard pinout, had then to implement the quad SPC backplanes? - why DEC, having defined quad backplanes, had then to implement the hex (standard + SPC) or (MUD + SPC) or EUB? I mean: given that in AB all Unibus signals are present (from specifications), what is the need for CDEF? Provided that several signals are duplicated in hex pinout, the backplane will connect homologue signals together, or AB bus will always be separated from CDEF bus? My aim is to design a reprogrammable digital logic board which could be employed in any system, using 18bits address or also 22bits (i.e. for 11/24). Thanks Andrea

4 months

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Re: Wanted : Philips PSU-B3 (or -B4?) power supply for the P3800

by Fred Jan Kraan

Tony Duell wrote: > I am working on a Philips P3800 computer, about 40 years old. It's a > multiprocessor Turbodos machine, a mix of Z80's and 80186's There is some P3500/3800 documentation online, including power supplies (Netzteile) at: https://electrickery.nl/comp/divcomp/doc/index.html Not exactly what you asked for, but related. Fred Jan

4 months

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Wanted : Philips PSU-B3 (or -B4?) power supply for the P3800

by Tony Duell

I am working on a Philips P3800 computer, about 40 years old. It's a multiprocessor Turbodos machine, a mix of Z80's and 80186's The main problem is that I only have half the power supply. I have the PSU-M3 battery-backed memory supply, but not the logic supply. This I believe to be a PSU-B3 module, although from the circuit diagrams I have, I think a PSU-B4 would work. Outputs are +5V, +12V, -12V, +24V and maybe -5V. There's also remote on/off control, so it's not trivial to use a different power supply The base board is a 233*160mm double eurocard wth a 96 pin 0.1" pitch DIN41612 connector for the outputs and a 32 pin 0.2" pitch DIN41612 connector for the mains input. There is probably another board stacked on top of it (connected only to the baseboard, not to the backplane) and there may be a metal plate on top of the lot. Please let me know if you have any idea where to find one. -tony

4 months

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KZCCA scsi/ethernet card - VMS driver needed

by Jim Bender

Help needed! Nemonix NXETHER41/NXSCSI41 Intraserver KZCCA DEC/Compaq KZCCA All the same board, sold under multiple brands, the most prominent listed here. Differences are mostly labeling and branding. Looking for what is turning out to be an unicorn... I have a Microvax 3100-90 with the Nemonix NXETHER41 version of the card in it. This is the "ethernet only" version of this option card. It was also available with a SCSI adapter on it. As was the case with many hardware options back in this era, this card, no matter which flavor you have needs a driver installed in VMS in order for it to function. The driver was distributed as a vmsinstal package called "VAX_SCSI" and despite the name it included the drivers for the ethernet side of the board as well as the SCSI. It appears to have had multiple versions, 1.4, 1.5 and 1.6. 1.6 is the latest I have been able to find evidence for. What I have not been able to find evidence of is the files themselves. Despite the Nemonix website still being up, it appears to be a ghost town and none of the phone numbers or email addresses work. The web archive shows some Intraserver pages from the early 2000s with links to download the files but the files themselves were not archived. And unfortunately, DEC/Compaq did not see fit to include this on the CONDIST CDs. So my plea to the community here is... does anyone have the drivers for this card or any leads to where it could be found? Thanks! Jim

4 months

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Consignment at VCF East 2025 - April 4-6 - Wall, NJ

by Jeffrey Brace

Just a few days left to get your consignment entered into NexoPOS for VCF East 2025! https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-east/vcf-east-consignmen… Get your tickets here: https://events.humanitix.com/vintage-computer-festival-east-2025 Info: https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-east/

4 months

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InversePhase @ VCF East - April 5 - Wall, NJ

by Jeffrey Brace

Want to know what a chiptune is? How about what a chiptune is not? You can learn a little bit about the technology, its history, how it makes sounds, how it is implemented, and the culture surrounding it at this panel. All ages and experience levels are welcome! And ... After his talk, make your own chiptunes! What’s the deal with all these 8-bit whipper-snappers and their beeps, boops, and farty bass?Want to know what a chiptune is? How about what a chiptune is not? You can learn a little bit about the technology, its history, how it makes sounds, how it is implemented, and the culture surrounding it at this panel. All ages and experience levels are welcome! @inversephase is a real human person (not a robot, as you might have heard) who writes game soundtracks and chiptune tributes for a living, runs Bloop Museum, eats pizza, and even occasionally writes Bios. INFO: https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-east/ TICKETS: https://vcfed.org/2025/03/16/non-member-ticket-pricing-vcf-east/ VCF East is April 4-6 2201 Marconi Road Wall, NJ 07719

4 months

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IBM 1410 FPGA Implementation Update

by Jay Jaeger

I have made some progress on my IBM 1410 FPGA implementation: - Communication between the FPGA and PC Support Program is now over UDP instead of USB/Serial - Tapes can now read/write reliably in non-overlapped mode - Diagnostics can be loaded and run from tape - Some tape issues still remain See https://www.computercollection.net/index.php/ibm-1410-fpga-implementation/ (especially the last three entries in the list.) JRJ

4 months, 1 week

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Amiga Roundtables at VCF East April 5 & 6 - Wall, NJ

by Jeffrey Brace

VCF East 2025 is April 4-6. Amiga Roundtables at VCF East Moderated by Dave McMurtrie and Dan Wood. *Saturday roundtable* includes: RJ Mical Dale Luck Ron Nicholson Glenn Keller Andy Finkel Jeff Porter Randell Jesup Peter Cherna *Sunday Roundtable* includes: RJ Mical Dave Haynie David John Pleasance Robert Miranda Hedley Davis Jeff Bruette Don Gilbreath Tickets here: https://vcfed.org/2025/03/16/non-member-ticket-pricing-vcf-east/ Info here: https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-east/

4 months, 1 week

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Pacific Data Systems - PDS 1020

by Martin.Hepperle＠dlr.de

Many moons ago, I was working at a wind tunnel for aeronautic research. In the first week, when I started on my job, my future colleagues threw a lot of outdated computer stuff into a large dumpster. Only many years later, after I became more aware of old computing technology, I realized what that trash was. Duh! I recently dug through our library and loaned some reports describing the equipment and the software at the time. Besides several HP 2116, ASR-33, Tektronix 40xx, x-y plotters and more, I also read about their first (pre HP) computer, which was used to control data acquisition and postprocessing. It was installed in 1966 and replaced by a HP 2116C in 1972. This was a Pacific Data Systems PDS 1020. It was built into a table and featured an IBM typewriter for printed output and a reader and a punch for papertapes. One report also contained the "listing" of the program, which is a 4-character hexadecimal dump (with unusual hex digits). To give you a "feeling" for the code, here is an example subroutine: 0256 L0LS 5001 0258 525S- L0LS M029 CS7D 2260 L0LA M029 CS7D 0260 L011 3002 L0C3- A26M- CS81 3S5A- 7262- 227C 0268 0000 4500 2000 0500- 3000- 4000- 5500- On bitsavers I found scans of some manuals with the instruction set and encoding. However, these lack complete programs. Therefore, I have scanned and re-typed the original programs from my report in their original form. Now I am thinking about writing a simple simulator to read and execute these programs. The PDS 1020 seems to have been a relatively low cost and hence successful computer, but searching the internet I can find only two machines which seem to be in museums. Maybe a few more have survived in personal collections. #1: https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102686768 #2: https://collections.museumsvictoria.com.au/items/397741 Are there more? Are some of them in working order? Is there already a simulator available? Martin

4 months, 1 week

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Re: FD-55B head loose

by Gregory Beat

TEAC FD-55F floppy drives https://retrocmp.de/fdd/teac/fd55f.htm The TEAC FD-55F never appeared in the world of IBM compatible computers. Why is that? Because it was simply superfluous in the DOS world. The TEAC FD-55F is a double-sided 5.25 inch drive that can write 96 tracks per inch (TPI) with 9 sectors per track. In other words, the capacity of a floppy disk is 720 KByte. There were Radio Shack and other computers (NCR, etc.) that used this format (DSQD). This corresponds to the capacity of the standard 3.5-inch double-density (DD) drive. The 3.5-inch floppy disk format was supported since DOS version 3.2. Introduction of 3.5” drives and disks by IBM (mid-1980s) was one reason why the 5.25 inch drives with 720 KByte storage did not find their way into the IBM world. == Further in the above web link: Changing a Teac FD-55GFR drive to a FD-55F drive ... or, How do I get my drive to spin at 300 RPM instead of 360 RPM ? gb

4 months, 1 week

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Re: FD-55B head loose

by Gregory Beat

Vogons Wiki has summary from Teac Manuals. TEAC FD-55 Series Floppy Drives http://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/Teac_FD-55_series TEAC FD-55 Product Brochure (PDF, 6 pages), 1985 printing https://minuszerodegrees.net/manuals/TEAC/TEAC%20FD-55%20Series.pdf greg, w9gb

4 months, 1 week

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Westhead acosiates

by Adrian Stoness

Curious if there's anything in the community on them They made a cpm based system that was used in HMI control room settings in the 80's I've got the manuals for their pdm 800 series along with backup of the software on 8in floppy from the mclelan mine in Lynn lake mb. Love to find a system the one that went with my stuff got bulldozed into the ground in 2009

4 months, 1 week

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FD-55B head loose

by Jim Brain

I was wondering if anyone here has experience with the FD55-B with head load solenoid. I have a few working ones, but this one is not, and when I look at it, it differs from the others in that the head "wiggles" up and done on the side nearest the solenoid. I can see it is tight on the rail oppose the solenoid, but on the side nearest, the back of the head does not connect with the rail on the back (which seems correct, as there is a piece of that extends out and looks to slot into a sensor. But, I'd assume the front mount would hug the rail, but it only does on the top. By pushing the head close to the disk in use, I can get it to work, so I think this loose head issue is the only one. I guess: * Anyone seen something like this? * Is this a broken rail mount on the head, or something else? * If its broken and probably can't be fixed, anyone have a parts FD55-B? * Can one replace the head on these (it looks like you can, but I admit I have never changed parts in a drive mech. Jim -- Jim Brain brain(a)jbrain.com www.jbrain.com

4 months, 1 week

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Food Truck at VCF East 2025

by Jeffrey Brace

VCF East has a food truck this year! Boardwalk Bites agreed to have a truck there. Besides the long lines at Consignment, on-campus food had the biggest complaints from last year's survey. We hope that this solves this problem. MENU: BREAKFAST (Served from 7:30 am) Pork, Egg and Cheese Roll Egg, Bacon and Cheese Burrito Bagels and Pastries Coffee & Tea LUNCH (Served from 11:30 am – 2:00 pm) Cheeseburger Sausage & Peppers Sandwich Vegetarian Sandwich Cheesesteak Seasoned Fries Fresh Fruit BEVERAGES Water, Soda Show info: https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-east/ Tickets: https://vcfed.org/vcf-east-tickets/

4 months, 2 weeks

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Brian Kernighan @ VCF East April 5 at 5PM

by Jeffrey Brace

Brian Kernighan will be interviewed by Stephen Edwards about his 2019 book: UNIX: A History and a Memoir. He will be there Saturday, April 5 at 5PM. Brian Kernighan worked at Bell Labs and co-wrote the first book on C Programming (in 1978) with Dennis Ritchie: "The C Programming Language" VCF East 2025 will be in Wall, NJ from April 4-6. More information: https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-east/ Tickets: https://vcfed.org/vcf-east-tickets/ Take care! Jeff Brace VCF East Showrunner

4 months, 2 weeks

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Need PATA drives?

by Van Snyder

I have some 3.5" PATA drives. One WD2500 250 GB drive and two Maxtor Max Line II 320 GB drives. All three passed SMART long tests. If you need any, they're yours for the price of a PDF shipping label.

4 months, 2 weeks

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Selling Off My Q-Bus Collection (revision based on suggestions)

by Joe

Hi, located in Eastern MA, I already have a couple of interests, but I'll see what comes in. Multiple q-bus boards that can easily ship, a VT103, a BA chassis 9x4 I think and two RX02 units.

4 months, 2 weeks

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Selling Off My Q-Bus Collection

by Joe

Hi Everyone, I'm new to this list so please let me know if I am doing something incorrect. Anyway, I have a bunch of Qbus stuff (RXV21s, RX02s, memory boards, 11/23s, etc) and I am getting to the point in my life that it all needs to go to a new home. I would like to know if anybody has thoughts on where I should post the list or sell it. I could always do Epay, but I'm not sure that is the best place. I thought here or Vintage would be better but I'd like to hear thoughts from somebody that has already been there. thanks in advance Joe Heck

4 months, 2 weeks

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VCF West 2025 Survey - Final Days - Mountain View, California

by Jeffrey Brace

There are only 5 days left to fill out this survey! Help us make a great show for VCF West 2025, please fill out this survey: https://forms.gle/R1kSCsVqEyZfgQ4Q8

4 months, 2 weeks

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VCF EAST CONSIGNMENT HAS A BIGGER SPACE! - April 4-6, 2025 - Wall, NJ

by Jeffrey Brace

VCF EAST 2025 CONSIGNMENT HAS A BIGGER SPACE! VCF now has a 7000 square foot space for consignment! Plenty of space for everyone's items and less waiting time to get in! Information about consignment is here: https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-east/vcf-east-consignmen… Register and enter your new items into consignment here: https://nexopos.vcfed.org/ The show is April 4-6 in Wall, NJ. More info here: https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-east/ Tickets here: https://vcfed.org/vcf-east-tickets/ Jeff Brace VCF East Showrunner

4 months, 2 weeks

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Indius Java components

by silcreval

A very left field question, but many moons ago I wrote some software using Nescape IFC. For those with long memories that was an early GUI library for Java that predates Swing. For no reason at all I'd like to get this software running again, but noticed that I probably need a 3rd party library that was produced by Indius. These IFC add ons provided a fantastic grid and tree component. The software was I believe finally released with a GNU license in the 00s but despite searching on archive etc I've not been able to find it. Does anyone by any chance have an archived copy ? Netscape IFC was quite a big thing when it was released by the way, and many books were written about it. It was also bundled with Netscapes browsers in the day, so available wherever they were installed. I believe the team that created IFC went on to make Swing, which is in many ways similar, but added a lot of bulk which at least in the early 00s made things slow. Thanks Ian

4 months, 2 weeks

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IDT 49C402BG84 Pinout?

by Holm Tiffe

Hi all, I'm dreaming to build sometimes my own Bit Slice CPU (when I have spare time) and I have collected several IC's in the last years for this purpose. Today a small antistatic bag with 4x IDT49C402BG84 and two IDT 49C410J fell in my hands while I was sorting some stuff. I know what they are and what they could do, they are able to help me to build a Bit Slice CPU w/o very large PCB's connecting hordes of 2901 etc. Besides of that they are CMOS and should draw much less power. But I have a problem with the 49C402: All datasheets that I could find until now, don't have the pinput auf that nice PGA84 package, there are DIP68, LCC/PLCC68 G68 or PG68 and QE68 "Cerquad" pinouts listet in every datasheet, but I have 4 chips in a PGA84 housing... This ebay page has pictures: https://www.ebay.com/p/10020043211 I don't have anything todo with the seller. Can anyone help finding the pinout? The chips itself don't seem to that seldom... Kind Regards, Holm -- Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, Goethestrasse 15, 09569 Oederan, USt-Id: DE253710583 info(a)tsht.de Tel +49 37292 709778 Mobil: 0172 8790 741

4 months, 2 weeks

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DEC CP11-U (M7824) Documentation?

by Christian Gauger-Cosgrove

Hello all, I'm curious, does anyone have any documentation on the CP11 card punch option? From the '91 Edited Option Module List and various iterations of the "Field Guide to QBUS and UNIBUS Modules" that it's: 1. A card punch, 2. A UNIBUS device, and; 3. It uses the M7824 board. I'm most particularly interested in if anyone has any programming information on it. Best regards, Christian -- Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove STCKON08DS0 Contact information available upon request.

4 months, 3 weeks

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VCF West 2025 Survey - Mountain View, California

by Jeffrey Brace

SAVE THE DATE! VCF West is back on August 1 & 2, 2025 at the Computer History Museum in Mountain View, California. Please fill out this survey to help us with planning: https://forms.gle/R1kSCsVqEyZfgQ4Q8 This survey is for everyone! We have started plans to make VCF West a bigger, better, and more unique show than we ever have before! We're partnering with the Sacramento Amiga Computer Club and AmiWest to celebrate the 40th anniversary of the Amiga and other special guests. We will have quality speakers, a large consignment area, exhibits galore and our Friday Night Social. Exhibit space will, however, be limited so we are going to be selective in the process. There is still room for talks so if you're interested or know someone who is, please let us know at vcfwest(a)vcfed.org We're looking forward to seeing you there! Take care! Jeff Brace VCF National Board Member Chairman & Vice President VCF East Showrunner MARCH Fundraising Manager Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity https://vcfed.org/ <http://www.vcfed.org/>

4 months, 3 weeks

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Re: ROM to Flash Adapter for HP Portable PC ROM Drawer help

by Martin.Hepperle＠dlr.de

Mike, you might also want to have a look at https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-15356.html For testing , I have used a regular EPROM mounted on an external PCB and connected it with a ribbon cable to the ROM drawer. There are ribbon cable - DIP connectors with thin pins, which can be used without destroying the sockets inside the ROM drawer. You should not use normal pin headers as these pins are too thick and will damage the sockets. Unfortunately, many replacement solutions use such headers. You can buy individual, thin pins, but these are relatively expensive (e.g. at Mouser). The height of a replacement should be similar to a normal EPROM, so a thin PCB with a flat SMC Flash RAM might be a viable solution. This will also require a programming adapter. On the other hand, 128 KB capacity is still rather limited - e.g. Turbo-C header files are too large to fit into one EPROM, even if compressed by removing comments and whitespace. However, it should be possible to link software over two 128K modules, as was obviously done with Word Perfect in the days (see the Portable Paper). This linking requires some modification of the FAT entries in the image files, which I have not yet tried. Martin

4 months, 3 weeks

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Need a dot-matrix impact printer?

by Van Snyder

Do you need to print on multi-part carbon or NCR forms? Do you need a dot-matrix impact printer? I have a Star Micronics SB-10 dot-matrix impact printer. It has a parallel interface. My late brother was using it so I assume it still works. None of my computers have a parallel port so I can't test it. Printer, cable, manual, spare ribbon, original shipping packaging. If you want it, it's yours for the price of a PDF shipping label, 20" x 20" x 10" 30 pounds.

4 months, 3 weeks

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Vendor for data recovery from TK50 and TK25 tapes?

by dbrock＠computerhistory.org

Hello everyone! I'm new to the list, but am posting here on the suggestion of Chuck Guzis. I'm a curator at the Computer History Museum, and am trying to identify a vendor who could potentially work with us to recover data from a set of TK50 and TK25 tapes that came to us in an archival collection. Any pointers would be much appreciated. I can be reached directly at dbrock(a)computerhistory.org Thanks in advance for your time, David

4 months, 4 weeks

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networking on CTOS

by r.stricklin

Trying to experiment with TCP/IP (and, to a lesser extent, OSI and BNet cluster) networking on a Convergent/Unisys CTOS system (SuperGen SG3600). Am experiencing several anomalous results and would love to have a chat with someone who has real experience with this… if some such person is on the list. Thanks! ok bear.

5 months

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VCF East 2025 tickets now on sale!

by Jeffrey Brace

https://events.humanitix.com/vintage-computer-festival-east-2025 Jeff Brace VCF East Showrunner Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity

5 months

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NeXT computer system...

by John Robertson

I'm just starting to clean up a NeXT system that a friend has had in storage for decades... I assume the thing has a battery somewhere - I just hope it isn't Ni-Cad! This is the original cube, monitor, keyboard (& mouse?), printer, assorted cables, and a SCSI secondary hard drive box. So far the manuals haven't shown up, but that is all online AFAICT. My plan is to give them all a good cleaning, then open up and inspect capacitors, look for batteries and any other perishable items, and then do diode checks prior to considering powering up. The remembered background story was a nearby lightning strike may have taken out the (1200 baud?) external modem, so will be paying extra attention to the serial ports! Sniff test may still be useful even after 20ish years. Any suggestions on what else to watch for on this setup prior to first power? I also will be using the Dim-Bulb setup once it seems safe to turn on. Anyone seen a common problem in power supplies for these components for example? Planned destination is auction... Thanks! John :-#)#

5 months

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VCF Montréal Survey

by Jeffrey Brace

This survey is in its final days. You are invited to add your anonymous input by clicking here https://bit.ly/vcfm2026pre-en Ce sondage entre dans ses derniers jours. Vous êtes invité à ajouter vos commentaires anonymes en cliquant ici https://bit.ly/vcfm2026pre-fr DATE: January 25 & 26, 2026. LOCATION: Montréal, QC, Canada Jeff Brace VCF National Board Member Chairman & Vice President

5 months

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FYI: The ongoing, 40 years long search for Aleph Null

by Tomasz Rola

Howdy, The subject of Aleph Null's real identity appeared on HN... :: Who was Aleph Null? Posted on 2 September 2013 by Brian Hayes http://bit-player.org/2013/who-was-aleph-null :: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43195308 Intriguing. He must have been known by somebody, back in the day. -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home ** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_rola@bigfoot.com **

5 months

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Anybody need a dot matrix impact printer?

by Van Snyder

Anybody need a dot matrix impact printer? Do you need to print multi- part forms with carbon paper or NCR paper? I have a Star Micronics SB-10 dot matrix impact printer. It has a parallel port interface. I have the cable, manual, and a spare ribbon. None of my computers have a parallel port so I haven't tried to use it. I put it on EBay, but mostly I don't want to throw it in the E-waste bin. It's yours for pickup or shipping, but I won't complain if you offer me something for it. 30lb. 20x20x10 inch box.

5 months

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Thousands of new Data General documents added to the on-line archives...

by Bruce Ray

Thousands of new documents have been added to the DG legacy preservation web site [www.NovasAreForever.org], including new sections for the Nova, SuperNova, Nova 2, Nova 3, microNova, MPT, Eclipse S/130, Eclipse S/140, Eclipse S/230, Eclipse C/330, Eclipse S/280, and Desktop Generation computers.(!) Separate areas also now exist for DG disks, tapes and other peripherals. New archives for 3rd-party, DG-compatible hardware vendors have been started with this release, including those for Keronix, DCC, Bytronix and ROLM. This update reflects Wild Hare's continuing dedication [obsession?] to preserve Data General's significant part of computer history, and to help museums, universities and "restorationists" preserve DG systems worldwide. Bruce Ray www.NovasAreForever.org -- Bruce Ray, President Wild Hare Computer Systems, Inc. Denver, Colorado USA bkr(a)WildHareComputers.com ...preserving the Data General legacy: www.NovasAreForever.org

5 months

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Might be antique computer parts

by Van Snyder

I have two SPST time delay 12-volt relays packaged like vacuum tubes with octal bases, Amperite models 12N010 (ten seconds) and 12C5 (five seconds). They're in their original boxes. I have no idea what devices used them. It seems a shame to throw them in a recycle bin. Does anybody want them? Van Snyder

5 months, 1 week

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Rainbow 100A Video Fault (also posted on VCF)

by Rob Jarratt

I have been trying to diagnose a video fault on my Rainbow 100A for some time now. The monitor shows an error message and some of the attributes displayed are wrong and displayed incorrectly on every line down the screen. However, the attributes being presented to the DC012 appear to be correct and the DC012 is good (I have replaced it with a spare and with a known good one, all have the same behaviour), and yet the display is wrong. I have posted this on VCF, but would like to reach a wider audience as I am really at a loss now as to what the problem could be. Picture of the problem here: https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/video-ram-fault-on-a-rainbow-100a. 1250713/post-1418966 Description of what I have found here: https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/video-ram-fault-on-a-rainbow-100a. 1250713/post-1433618 Thanks Rob

5 months, 1 week

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Elliott Algol

by Frank Leonhardt

As those of us with a few years will know, Tony Hoare (and Jill's) implementation of Algol 60 on the Elliott 803 was a highly significant event in the history of computer languages. It was the first practical commercial Algol compiler, launched block structures languages, and played a part in Elliott selling nearly 300 803B computers at a time when 300 computers was a big number. Obviously the US preferred Fortran and COBOL for commercial use, and there were other Algol compilers in some shape or other knocking about in universities. But I'd say this implementation put block structured programming into the mainstream. (And it was the first high level language I used, but that's beside the point). Now some kid on Wikipedia thinks it's not notable and is trying to delete it because he can't find much on it doing a Google search. Wikipedia may be sinking under activists and egos, but I think we need to put this misapprehension straight. Unfortunately we may be arguing with an idiot. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliott_ALGOL If course, if anyone thinks it wasn't significant, that's an opinion too, but I'd like to hear why. Thanks, Frank.

5 months, 1 week

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Re: Classic computers with more than one stack pointer, but not FORTH machines.

by John

On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 12:00:07 -0600 Paul Koning <paulkoning(a)comcast.net> wrote: > > What is the problem with ISRs running in a user stack? The ISR > > runs, exits, the stack is cut back, and net effect on the user's > > stack is zero. > > A stack access fault in user mode kills the process, in kernel mode > (certainly in an ISR) it kills the whole system. You can't leave the > integrity of the OS at the mercy of the application having a valid > stack. Additionally, the ISR could leave potentially sensitive information in user memory, depending on exactly how the stack and memory protection are implemented. Consider an architecture where the stack pointer is a normal address register (as on the -11, the 68k, etc.) and protection is on a per-page basis with no bounds checking (i.e. there's no special address space for the stack, just a particular chunk mapped into normal user memory.) It'd be trivial for a user program to sit and "scrape" the stack for stray bits left by passing ISRs - say, waiting to see if the UART service routine happens to jot down something that looks like an admin password coming off one of the terminals.

5 months, 1 week

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Re: Elliott Algol

by Paul McJones

> On19 Feb 2025 18:39:08 -0500, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > >>> >>>> One of most ingenious coding tricks to me was the problem of saving and >>>> restoring all registers without resorting to an exchange jump. We used >>>> that one as a test for applicants. >>> >>> Argh... I know I've seen this trick, but it's been too many years. How >>> about a hint? >> >> It uses the RJ instruction to record register content, bit-by-bit. >> Think about it--RJ is about the only instruction that can modify memory >> without fiddling with the A6 and A7 registers. >> > > Of course... I vaguely recalled there was a bit-by-bit save, but didn't > think of the RJ. Thanks. A full example of this code is in the DEBUG package of CAL SNOBOL <https://mcjones.org/CAL_SNOBOL/>, starting at label SAVEREG: Original version: https://mcjones.org/CAL_SNOBOL/UArizona/SNOBOL.MAC.html Revised version: https://mcjones.org/CAL_SNOBOL/UTexas/DEBUG.html

5 months, 1 week

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IBM 4506 (old message)

by Tommy Chang

I saw an email posted to the predecessor mail list asking if anyone had a picture of an IBM 4506 terminal. I was looking through the September 1973 issue Modern Data and saw an article on page 70 about the New York Times’s indexing efforts. It said that they were using IBM 4506 terminals and it has a picture of a large workroom (identified as “The Times index room”) with a bunch of terminals which I assume must be 4506’s (although the caption does not explicitly state that). The magazine is available on BitSavers. Look for the issue with file name Modern_Data_1973_07.pdf. Tommy Chang

5 months, 1 week

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Classic computers with more than one stack pointer, but not FORTH machines.

by ben

Did any classic computers have a subroutine call as (S++)=PC, PC=(EFA) as well as the standard call (--S)=PC,PC=(EFA) ? One could have a virtual stack machine, using helper functions without having to deal with return addresses on the stack. Ben.

5 months, 1 week

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Re: Classic computers with more than one stack pointer, but not FORTH machines.

by John

On Tue, 18 Feb 2025 12:00:10 -0600 cctalk-request(a)classiccmp.org wrote: > On the more than "one stack pointer" in the subject, it was a bit > arbitrary on the PDP-11 (or VAX) as the pre/post indexed indirect > addressing made every register a stack pointer. But this is where I > get hazy between DEC and 68K, and I did a lot more 68K. I'm pretty > sure you could do a move.l PC, An and you could certainly do an > indirect jmp (An), so effectively you could have multiple call stacks > if you wanted. Almost, kinda-sorta. The JSR and RTS instructions are hard-wired to use R6/SP, and there's nothing you can do about that. You *can* implement a return off another "stack" by doing e.g. MOV @(Rn)+, PC as long as you save the return address by hand, first - but this affects the flags, unlike JSR/RTS.

5 months, 2 weeks

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HAWLEY X063X Mark II and XEROX Star mice

by hupfadekroua

Hi all, I‘m offering HAWLEY X063X, XEROX Star rollerball and optical mice. If interested contact me offlist please. Best Andreas

5 months, 2 weeks

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VCF SoCal 2025 recap

by Steve Lewis

Happened to be in the area, so I checked out VCF SoCal last weekend. Glad I did, wow Lee Felsenstein was able to present ! What a treat. VCF SoCal 2025 — voidstar <https://voidstar.blog/vcf-socal-2025/> https://voidstar.blog/vcf-socal-2025/

5 months, 2 weeks

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Re: Elliott Algol

by Paul McJones

> On 15 Feb 2025 18:41:21 -0800,Van Snyder <van.snyder(a)sbcglobal.net <mailto:van.snyder@sbcglobal.net>> wrote: > > Harry Husky, the G15 designer, was one of the computer design pioneers. > He became a professor (maybe adjunct) at UC Berkeley. As far as I know, Huskey was a regular professor. Two of his Ph.D. students went on to win the ACM Turing Award: Niklaus Wirth and Butler Lampson: https://mathgenealogy.org/id.php?id=10185 Huskey went on to found the Computer Science department at U.C. Santa Cruz.

5 months, 2 weeks

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Re: Elliott Algol

by Paul McJones

> On 16 Feb 2025 18:00:35 -0700,ben <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca <mailto:bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca>> wrote: > > I have trouble understanding the fine points of accessing a local > variable in Algol with a display. Books tend to spend more time > on the evils of a dangling else, and gloss over the run time action of > a display. > Have a good example or reference book I can find free on line. The original book on that subject is ALGOL 60 Implementation by B. Randell and L. J. Russell. It’s available here with permission from the copyright holder: https://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/ALGOL/algol60impl/#ALGOL_60_I…

5 months, 2 weeks

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Open source a panacea?

by Donald Whittemore

I am an old mainframe guy. I could give you my COBOL deck of cards or the compile listing. You could pour through the code looking for nefarious/malicious code. I then hand you the object deck. You have no idea if it matches the code you looked at. The only way you could be sure is to compile the code I gave you and use your own object deck. So why is open source these days such a beneficial thing? DeepSeek may be open source but I have no way to create my own executable. Besides, I don’t know what language it is written in but I bet I have no expertise in it. No way to for me to identify nasty code. Yes, many people may have reviewed the code but that does not mean what I am running is the result of that code.

5 months, 2 weeks

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Re: Elliott Algol

by Dr. Erik Baigar

Hi Van, just wanted to point out, that there is a 803 emulator out there: https://www.peteronion.org.uk/Elliott/ I have got a real 900 series machine running, which is from the very early 1970ies and also runs a form of Elliott Algol: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-gF5g0nnoE Best wishes, Erik. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ''~`` ( o o ) +--------------------------.oooO--(_)--Oooo.-------------------------+ | Dr. Erik Baigar Inertial Navigation & | | Salzstrasse 1 .oooO Vintage Computer | | D87616 Marktoberdorf ( ) Oooo. Hobbyist / Physicist | | erik(a)baigar.de +------\ (----( )---------------------------+ | www.baigar.de | \_) ) / +----------------------+ (_/

5 months, 2 weeks

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Re: RS232 then and now

by Robert Feldman

>Message: 31 >Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2025 07:29:15 +0000 >From: Tony Duell <ard.p850ug1(a)gmail.com> >Subject: [cctalk] Re: RS232 then and now > >On Sat, Feb 1, 2025 at 10:54 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk ><cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > >> >> IBM used a DB25 socket for their printer port at the computer end, >> (male on the card for serial, female on the card for parallel "Centronics") >> THAT, of course caused some idiots to attempt to use the parallel port for >> serial and vice versa. "I just need a 'gender changer'!" :-) > >The worst screw-up there (IMHO) came from HP in the HP150 series. This >machine had 2 RS232 serial ports as standard on DB25 sockets, wired >for some inexplicable reason as DTEs. There was an add-on board that >included a parallel printer port. To avoid confusion, this was a DB25 >plug. But the board had been laid out for a DB25 socket using the IBM >PC pinout. The result was that stb/ ended up on pin 13, D0 on pin 12, >and so on. > >-tony > My vote for the worst connector screw-up is the AT&T (Olivetti) 6300. Its monochrome monitor used a DB25 to supply both the signals and 12 volts to power the monitor. Bob

5 months, 2 weeks

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RS232 - parallel modems!?

by Steve Lewis

I was about to ask if anyone ever built a "Parallel Modem" - but I searched around first, and lo and behold, Microcom did ! (v.fast / v.34 era, c. 1996) The drivers refer to Win3.1/Win95 era (I'm not seeing where they had DOS support). But I'm still not sure if I'm understanding the product (which I found described here Microcom Parallel Port Modem <https://strom.com/pubwork/cw294.html> From a programming perspective, you just set your parallel bits and mash the STROBE pin, right? Then figure some reasonable delay between iterations of doing that. You don't need starts/stop or parity bits. So I get how that is more efficient (but question is, why wasn't it built sooner? I think it's a long answer when you look at the historical build up of modems, and that serial-port based modems were "fast enough" at the time) So.. If you had a slow system that couldn't really take advantage of a ~7MHz 16550 serial card (or I guess like a laptop that was stuck with an older UART) That might be the use-case where this parallel v.fast might help (by being able to "feed the modem" fast enough to actually take advantage of the faster modem speed?) Or is there some other scenario NOTE, in the articled linked above, it does mention that it is only "value added" if you have this parallel-modem on both sides of the connection. (this is because you'll be flow controlled to whatever is the slower device in the connection?) Related but different question: Is there any "natural rate" (Hz) of a modem? Meaning is 1200/2400 baud-equivalent modem an accelerated-by-enhanced-encoding version of 300 bps? and 9600 likewise an accelerated-by-encoding version of 2400? is 300bps itself some kind of special accelerated-by-encoding? I see 1200 baud was also still sub 3KHz (did any modem protocol go above 3KHz?). Or maybe I need to ask it this way: did 300 baud modems use a more 1:1 translation of the data-word bits into Hz signal over the modem (giving a more "natural" translation rate?) But then beyond that speed, does a modem need to "cache" a few bytes and determine some encoding scheme to then give modems an apparent speed boost? (is that "kind-of" like USB's 8B/10B? (not in implementation, but in the general concept that a different encoding can result in improved data throughput, without actual faster movement of that data?) I guess it gets into the "secret sauce" approaches of how vendors figured out these encoding approaches (v.32bis, etc), and give their product competitive advantages (but only if you could convince enough ISPs to adopt your protocol, by buying your modem device). My daughter made me finally watch Blackberry recently, it's an interesting telling of that story (of a small business selling their tech to USR, and also that they tackled a version of encryption) -Steve

5 months, 2 weeks

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2025

2024

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