Qbus split I&D?

[Johnny Billquist]

On 2015-03-18 15:07, Paul Koning wrote:
>
>> On Mar 18, 2015, at 9:45 AM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at update.uu.se> wrote:
>>
>> On 2015-03-17 22:45, John Wilson wrote:
>>> But thinking about how it must work hurts my head.  It's emulating Unibus
>>> memory at the same time that it's emulating the Unibus map -- i.e. CPU
>>> accesses (which should be relocated through the onboard PARs) are coming
>>> over the same bus as DMA (which should be relocated using the Unibus Map).
>>> How does it know which is which?  Does it need to tap into each model of
>>> CPU somehow (like how a Microverter gets at MMR3)?  Or is it something
>>> simple like, BBSY is never asserted by the CPU (not obvious from docs --
>>> the CPU doesn't need to negotiate to become a master but it still is one
>>> when it's accessing memory) so if it's on, this is DMA?  And what if there's
>>> a cache, like the KK11A, that doesn't know about the outboard PARs?
>>
>> Not sure it's that hard. On the bus, I believe it is visible if this is an NPR transaction or not. The Unibus map only applies to NPR transactions.
>>
>> Addresses originating from the CPU should get the full 22 bit address from the MMU.
>
> Yes, but the Unibus map is still involved; if the CPU generates an address in the range 17000000 to 17577777, it lands on the Unibus and is then mapped by the Unibus map.  More precisely, it works that way for 11/44 and 11/70 — but not for the J-11.  That’s a difference not documented in the PDP-11 Architecture handbook model differences table; I ran into it while helping Sytse van Slooten debug an error message from RSTS/E on his VHDL PDP-11.

Right.
It is documented in the 11/84 and 11/94 manuals though.

> The reason I/O registers work is that the Unibus maps has 31 pages, not 32; it maps the Unibus addresses below the 4kW I/O range only.

Yes. But this also is only true for the 11/44 and 11/70. On J11 
processors, you cannot (for the above reason) access memory indirectly 
through the Unibus map from the CPU no matter what. Since the Unibus map 
actually sits on an external card that interfaces between the Unibus and 
the PMI bus on the J11 machines with a Unibus.

The KT84 (did I remember that name right?) only maps accessed from the 
Unibus to the PMI bus. Access from the CPU is an access from PMI.

(And with PMI I mean the modified PMI of those machines, which slightly 
deviates from "standard" PMI.)

	Johnny