Long story very short: Landlords evicted me from their warehouse where my collection was stored and wouldn't let me back in. Had to go to court. Regained access and was able to pull out 20% of the collection before they locked me out again for good. Then sold the rest to computer recyclers, who proceeded to scatter it to the wind. Sellam On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 1:43 AM Ali via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:

I did. It stretched on for a couple years, as civil suits are wont to do. But because I didn't have the legal chops I have now, I did not prevail. Hard lesson learned. Trust no man. Definitely trust no lawyer. Sellam On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 2:00 AM Tom Hunter via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:

I didn’t know you were able to recover 20% of the collection before being locked out again. I know losing any of it is terrible, but I’m guessing you prioritized the very best pieces of the collection when recovering the 20%, such as your Lisa 1? I kept my collection in storage lockers for years. I kept moving to larger and larger lockers, then eventually two large lockers, because my collecting got out of control. Prices kept going up every year and it was a nightmare having to pay what I did just to store the collection. Fortunately I was able to move to a house and relocated the collection to the basement. Not everything could come home with me, so I sold the remaining lower priority pieces to the first person who could clear the locker over a weekend. I didn’t get much for it, but at least it didn’t go to a recycler.

There were many benefactors from my loss, many innocent, some not. Those who benefitted from ill-begotten gains will pay for it in other ways, if they haven't already. Such is the natural law. Sellam On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 12:38 PM Grant Taylor via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote:

The good news is that most of my best stuff was either already with me or I was able to get out, including my two Lisa 1's, my (straight) PDP-8, and several other precious items. I long since sold off most of this to pay to live, since at the same time they destroyed my collection they destroyed my business (not to mention my life's work). I've gone on to build a new collection out of the old, one that is--like my original collection--unrivaled anywhere on the planet. But this time I've erected castle walls around it, surrounded by a moat filled with alligators. Sellam On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 11:58 AM Ryan de Laplante via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote:

Mike, I'm trying not to extend this conversation, because I am not interested in a pity-party, but this kind of comment is insulting. Of course I should have paid the rent. And vy the way, as soon as I had it, I offered it, but they refused the tender. Regardless, when someone gets evicted, they and their stuff get thrown out of the building. The landlord doesn't get to keep a million dollars of property over $4,000 of missed rent. It is not lawful to liquidate any of the tenant's property to offset the debt, unless they go through a long and drawn out legal process. Sellam On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 2:11 PM Mike Stein via cctalk &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote:

Re below..... why would they refuse cash?  And vy the way, as soon as I had it, I offered it, but they refused the tender. of the building.  The landlord doesn't get to keep a million dollars of property over $4,000 of missed rent.  It is not lawful to liquidate any of the tenant's property to offset the debt, unless they go through a long and drawn out legal process. Sellam On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 2:11 PM Mike Stein via cctalk &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote:

I remember that Sellam and I remember visiting your facility on a trip my wife and I did to the US. It was very impressive collection and that’s an understatement. It’s a shame all that was lost ☹ It served to reinforce my approach to this s tuff, grab first ask questions later otherwise it becomes landfill. Apologies if this is not appropriate for this list but your landlord was a flog. Kevin Parker -----Original Message----- From: Sellam Abraham via cctalk &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; Sent: Monday, 17 October 2022 19:55 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; Cc: Sellam Abraham &lt;sellam.ismail(a)gmail.com&gt; Subject: [cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012 Long story very short: Landlords evicted me from their warehouse where my collection was stored and wouldn't let me back in. Had to go to court. Regained access and was able to pull out 20% of the collection before they locked me out again for good. Then sold the rest to computer recyclers, who proceeded to scatter it to the wind. Sellam On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 1:43 AM Ali via cctalk &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote:

Amen! On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 7:17 PM William Donzelli via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote:

Don't be pedantic. You know what I mean. Anyway, in the US, there are *significant* barriers to cross for people taking your land. -- Will On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 10:15 AM Ethan O'Toole &lt;ethan(a)757.org&gt; wrote:

On Oct 18, 2022, at 7:42 AM, Ethan O'Toole via cctalk &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote: This last weekend was the “Portland Retro Gaming Expo”, it was something of an eye opener as to how prices have gone up. There were some good deals, for example I was tempted by the two Commodore 128D’s and the Atari Stacy one seller had, but as a whole, the prices leaned towards crazy. Thankfully I bought most of my collection of classic computers in the late 90’s. These days if I’m buying anything, it’s usually something modern to extend an old system, or a part I need. I’ll also admit a certain amount of bewilderment on people getting excited to collect something like a Pentium II. Zane

Those would be the "significant barriers to cross". -- Will

I had a thought once that the ultimate computer museum would be in orbit. Actually, I think there was some Star Trek episode along those lines (not the one where Data was captured to be put into a museum, but something similar). I like how having the old hardware gives physical "witness" and "evidence" that all the old stories are true - people did invent and create these things, they didn't just appear from aliens. I get sentimental thinking how we're the "last generation" to know the world before computers. I understand computers have technically "run the world" maybe since the 1950s (in terms of big business accounting and logistics, air traffic control, world banking, the tech that got us to the moon, and long distance calls -- my father says he remembers talking to a switchboard operator and asking to be connected to his grandmother by first name, i.e. "Hi Susan, can you connect me to Martha Bell?", and the operator recognized his voice and made the connection). But you know what I mean -- a world with no smartphone, no spycams at every corner, no logins, paying with cash, and NOT having 24/7 international news. Not saying things were better, just that it's a transition in humanity and we are "digital pioneers." What if the next "country" isn't physical, but is a whole virtual space? I think the day is coming on that -- if we can't move out into space, folks might "move" into the meta-virtual space perhaps. And why can't CyberSpace be a new "continent" or multiple ones? Humans shouldn't live like chickens in a henhouse (well, in my opinion) -- but on the other hand, maybe that's a necessary step to (eventually) get the critical-mass of engineering/theoretical physicists-type stuff in virtual space that does lead to more advanced techniques to get into space? And if ISP servers are in orbit, what jurisdiction do physical governments now have? Not saying any of that is a Good-Thing - however, in general, we can't stop "progress." I see these online quantum computers that we can rent time on now -- and it's like the 1950s/1960s all over again, when they rented time on mainframes. We'll see where it leads! "smaller" collections - those are important, we need backup and redundancy for all the usual reasons. Fires and weather calamity still happen. But as the cost of real estate and land increases, that also increases the tax burden -- sadly, eventually we can't reserve comfortable space for old equipment. If computer museums become "Digital Temples" and we start the Order of Bit Twiddlers, could we then claim a religious exemption for tax purposes? On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 10:46 AM William Donzelli via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote:

Another story of using old technology: a couple of years ago I wrote an article about the invention of FM radio, in Holland in 1919 (no, not by Armstrong in the USA in the late 1920s). I wanted to simulate the circuit used, and found the easy way to do that was with complex number arithmetic. So I wrote a simulation of the circuit in question in ALGOL 60, running in a SIMH emulator. In other words, simulating a 100 year old invention using 50 year old computer technology. Why do it that way? Why not? Fun. paul

It was published in the April 2020 issue of Electron, the Dutch amateur radio magazine. But that isn't available on line. I realized I could just make the original English version of the article available. I realized the simulation output graphic I mentioned wasn't in there so I added it. You can find it here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vro6xe9oy0ybu5a/FM%20100%20years.pdf?dl=0 paul

Yes, but suppression of the story, which is what I experienced when I tried to update Wikipedia, is not the right answer. The correct answer is to recognize that (a) Armstrong was NOT first with FM transmission, (b) Armstrong was first with FM-specific receivers (discriminator), and (c) the technology direction started by Armstrong is the one that got traction and evolved into what we have now. As I mentioned in the opening paragraph of the article, Idzerda's FM transmitter is like Leif Eriksson's discovery of America -- he did it first, but it didn't lead to anything. Still, he made a living off a commercial broadcast venture using his technology for 5 years or so, until the creation of the BBC made his business uncompetitive. paul

I suppose so, but Idzerda's transmitter produces FM with essentially constant amplitude. It's a bit surprising given that it uses a carbon microphone as an element in the tuned circuit, but that's what the oscilloscope shows. And it works very nicely. True, and that's how his listeners heard his broadcasts, since the discriminator had not yet been invented. That also means, of course, that the "capture effect" benefit of FM was not available to him, since you need limiters for that. paul

Hear! hear!  When I was teaching college I told my students I would cross out any references to wikipedia in a paper. I saw on Wikipedia that there is no legal definition of a pint of beer in Canada. I got a government official to give me the legal definition and published it on wikipedia, quoting the official source. A few weeks later, it had been changed back to 'there is no legal definition of a pint of beer in Canada!'  Then I found my account blocked, but they still wanted me to donate every year! (By the way it is 568.26 ml, and 5% a.b.v.) Come to Canada for the beer, stay because your car won't start! cheers, Nigel Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept! Skype: TILBURY2591 On 2022-10-19 15:21, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: > Well, that's because the "WIKI" in "Wikipedia" stands for "We Impose > Knowledge Interpretation". > > Sadly, the promise of the internet has been utterly destroyed by > megalomaniacs, zealots, and abject morons. It's up to people like us to > preserve history as it actually happened, and not as the would-be masters > would have us believe. > > This is why we do what we do. > > Sellam > > On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 11:29 AM Paul Koning via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote: > >> >>> On Oct 19, 2022, at 2:09 PM, Alan Perry via cctalk < >> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote: >>> >>> >>>> On Oct 19, 2022, at 08:14, Fritz Mueller via cctalk < >> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote: >>>>  >>>>> On Oct 19, 2022, at 6:16 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk < >> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote: >>>>> ...a couple of years ago I wrote an article about the invention of FM >> radio, in Holland in 1919 (no, not by Armstrong in the USA in the late >> 1920s). >>>> That sounds interesting, Paul — I’m only familiar with the usual >> USA-centric Armstrong lore. Is your article available to read online >> anywhere? >>>> —FritzM. >>> I’d be interested in the article as well. >>> >>> There are reasons for the story of FM radio to be US- and >> Armstrong-centric, even if someone or some institution in Europe did it >> first. >> >> Yes, but suppression of the story, which is what I experienced when I >> tried to update Wikipedia, is not the right answer. >> >> The correct answer is to recognize that (a) Armstrong was NOT first with >> FM transmission, (b) Armstrong was first with FM-specific receivers >> (discriminator), and (c) the technology direction started by Armstrong is >> the one that got traction and evolved into what we have now. >> >> As I mentioned in the opening paragraph of the article, Idzerda's FM >> transmitter is like Leif Eriksson's discovery of America -- he did it >> first, but it didn't lead to anything. Still, he made a living off a >> commercial broadcast venture using his technology for 5 years or so, until >> the creation of the BBC made his business uncompetitive. >> >> paul >> >>

Hear hear! On Wed, Oct 19, 2022, 3:21 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote:

On 10/18/22 11:43, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: As the people and businesses along I-83 in Harrisburg, PA will gladly tell you. :-) bill

On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 10:36:58AM -0400, William Donzelli via cctalk wrote: Owe the local government a few bucks in unpaid tax? They steal your house (well, technically not - they put a lien on it and then foreclose). Lowest amount I've read about was around $9 in unpaid taxes resulted in a 25k $ house being grabbed. Was apparently later ruled as "nope, can't do that" for this case, but still, not a fun time. Florida seems to be particularly creative, too: pay your contractor, contractor doesn't pay their supplier, supplier puts lien on _your_ house for the money owed. Want to keep your house? Better pay again and then try to extract that money from the contractor later by way of the courts. And then there is the legal fun bag of the forfeiture related laws. Kind regards, Alex. -- "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison

On 2022-10-19 10:06, Raphaël Jacquot via cctalk wrote: No -- perfectly legal in many jurisdictions in both the US and Canada.  In fact, you need not even be told of the lien. Reputable contractors will give you (or you should demand) a release from liens. N.

Lien laws are total BS and written by special interest groups. They are also not unique to any one state. They exist in all states. Although some places are slightly better. In CA a lien can't be perfected unless you go to "big court" which costs money and lawyers. So unless you stiffed someone of out of mucho bucks it usually never happens. -Ali

On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 12:12:16PM -0500, John Foust via cctalk wrote: Some time ago I gave an advice to this group. Ok, it was half tongue in cheek, but the more I read this thread, the more it seems like the only viable way for classic hobbists. I.e. it looks not as stupid as depending on goodwill of some future people, benevolence of the rich etc. Basically, my advice was to make a friend for c-tech, either have a friend in government or a friend in some well established church. It can be taken further - make preservation of old tech into the constitution. Or, build a religion around it. This way, scraping functional item would become federal offence or even a sin. Repairing broken item and making it useful would become... well, I am not sure. Generally those long term institutions are good in castigating here and now, while promising good thing in a future (if you follow their rules), so I guess it should be something like this - those who get enough points (repair enough S100 cards) will be allowed to... dunno, you would have to fill in the gaps. Otherwise, all collections are subject to random screwups, evictions, vandalism, jokery (in my country, from time to time, one joker or another burns churches, old, wooden, centuries-old, for the reason known only to them - perhaps they think it is funny or are mentally fucked, so destruction is only going to be mitigated, postponed, but not stopped). If gubmints and churches smell too bad, I advice befriending scouts. You (c-tech hobby, c-computer collections) need a friend that is rooted for by the people. Not because it can give money, but because of some non-monetary achievement. A lot of people do various deeds to defend constitution or come to clean their parish, but AFAIK not for the money. Just MHO, as I am not quite a hobbist (just reading about old stuff from time to time). -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home ** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_rola@bigfoot.com **