25 Jul
2024
25 Jul
'24
5:59 a.m.
Hello all,
we now have a RM03 drive, but are missing all the cables and the RH11
backplane, though I have the cards.
Since the drive itself is a CDC 9762 I was wondering if I could ignore the
Massbus adapter in the drive cabinet and use the CDC as a "normal" SMD
drive (at least it uses the standard 60+26 pin cables).
There are no service manuals/schematics of the drive itself, so I can't
look there. And all I could find on the net were discussions of using the
Massbus adapter for normal SMD drives but in my case, I don't want Massbus
at all.
Christian
25 Jul
25 Jul
6:41 a.m.
The CDC test system for the RM03 is a standard SMD device. You disconnect the Massbus
interface and connect the test system where the Massbus interface was connected. So the
drive interface is probably standard SMD. The data transfer of the 9762 is fairly high, so
it may not work with slow controllers.
On Jul 25, 2024, at 5:59 AM, Christian Corti via
cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Hello all,
we now have a RM03 drive, but are missing all the cables and the RH11 backplane, though I
have the cards.
Since the drive itself is a CDC 9762 I was wondering if I could ignore the Massbus
adapter in the drive cabinet and use the CDC as a "normal" SMD drive (at least
it uses the standard 60+26 pin cables).
There are no service manuals/schematics of the drive itself, so I can't look there.
And all I could find on the net were discussions of using the Massbus adapter for normal
SMD drives but in my case, I don't want Massbus at all.
Christian
7:02 a.m.
I have always heard that Dec screwed with the smd spec. Maybe not?
On July 25, 2024 12:41:57 PM GMT+02:00, Michael Thompson via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
The CDC test system for the RM03 is a standard SMD
device. You disconnect the Massbus interface and connect the test system where the Massbus
interface was connected. So the drive interface is probably standard SMD. The data
transfer of the 9762 is fairly high, so it may not work with slow controllers.
> On Jul 25, 2024, at 5:59 AM, Christian Corti via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> we now have a RM03 drive, but are missing all the cables and the RH11 backplane,
though I have the cards.
> Since the drive itself is a CDC 9762 I was wondering if I could ignore the Massbus
adapter in the drive cabinet and use the CDC as a "normal" SMD drive (at least
it uses the standard 60+26 pin cables).
> There are no service manuals/schematics of the drive itself, so I can't look
there. And all I could find on the net were discussions of using the Massbus adapter for
normal SMD drives but in my case, I don't want Massbus at all.
>
> Christian
8:19 a.m.
I have never dealt with a massbus controller but have installed many
9762s on Emulex controllers. One thing that the device that DEC put into
the drive was to do with sector and index. The bog standard drive comes
with them on the A cable, but in order to have multiple drives you have
to move them on to the B cable, which is where the controllers look for
them. It is a tricky w/w job on the card cage backplane of the drive.
I no longer have the procedure.
IIRC the transfer rate is 9.6608 MHz - but I may be worng on that, it
has been a few years!
cheers,
Nigel
On 2024-07-25 07:02, Christopher Zach via cctalk wrote:
I have always heard that Dec screwed with the smd
spec. Maybe not?
On July 25, 2024 12:41:57 PM GMT+02:00, Michael Thompson via
cctalk<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
> The CDC test system for the RM03 is a standard SMD device. You disconnect the Massbus
interface and connect the test system where the Massbus interface was connected. So the
drive interface is probably standard SMD. The data transfer of the 9762 is fairly high, so
it may not work with slow controllers.
>
>> On Jul 25, 2024, at 5:59 AM, Christian Corti via
cctalk<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> we now have a RM03 drive, but are missing all the cables and the RH11 backplane,
though I have the cards.
>> Since the drive itself is a CDC 9762 I was wondering if I could ignore the
Massbus adapter in the drive cabinet and use the CDC as a "normal" SMD drive (at
least it uses the standard 60+26 pin cables).
>> There are no service manuals/schematics of the drive itself, so I can't look
there. And all I could find on the net were discussions of using the Massbus adapter for
normal SMD drives but in my case, I don't want Massbus at all.
>>
>> Christian
--
Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype: TILBURY2591
8:57 a.m.
On Thu, 25 Jul 2024, Nigel Johnson Ham wrote:
I have never dealt with a massbus controller but have
installed many 9762s on
Emulex controllers. One thing that the device that DEC put into the drive was
to do with sector and index. The bog standard drive comes with them on the A
cable, but in order to have multiple drives you have to move them on to the B
cable, which is where the controllers look for them. It is a tricky w/w job
on the card cage backplane of the drive. I no longer have the procedure.
Thanks for the hint. I will compare both the standard SMD pinout and the
"SMD" side of the adapter.
I've seen that some modern drives have jumpers to select on which cable to
put the I/S signals.
IIRC the transfer rate is 9.6608 MHz - but I may be
worng on that, it has
been a few years!
Just the standard SMD drive speed and not the later SMD-E.
Christian
9:05 a.m.
Interesting. The massbus adapters normally supported one drive per cage (I think the rm05
did two) I'll have to check it out
I would be happy to run my rm80 on the sc03 or uc03 controllers I have
C
On July 25, 2024 2:19:10 PM GMT+02:00, Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
I have never dealt with a massbus controller but have
installed many 9762s on Emulex controllers. One thing that the device that DEC put into
the drive was to do with sector and index. The bog standard drive comes with them on the A
cable, but in order to have multiple drives you have to move them on to the B cable, which
is where the controllers look for them. It is a tricky w/w job on the card cage backplane
of the drive. I no longer have the procedure.
IIRC the transfer rate is 9.6608 MHz - but I may be worng on that, it has been a few
years!
cheers,
Nigel
On 2024-07-25 07:02, Christopher Zach via cctalk wrote:
I have always heard that Dec screwed with the smd
spec. Maybe not?
On July 25, 2024 12:41:57 PM GMT+02:00, Michael Thompson via
cctalk<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
> The CDC test system for the RM03 is a standard SMD device. You disconnect the Massbus
interface and connect the test system where the Massbus interface was connected. So the
drive interface is probably standard SMD. The data transfer of the 9762 is fairly high, so
it may not work with slow controllers.
>
>> On Jul 25, 2024, at 5:59 AM, Christian Corti via
cctalk<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> we now have a RM03 drive, but are missing all the cables and the RH11 backplane,
though I have the cards.
>> Since the drive itself is a CDC 9762 I was wondering if I could ignore the
Massbus adapter in the drive cabinet and use the CDC as a "normal" SMD drive (at
least it uses the standard 60+26 pin cables).
>> There are no service manuals/schematics of the drive itself, so I can't look
there. And all I could find on the net were discussions of using the Massbus adapter for
normal SMD drives but in my case, I don't want Massbus at all.
>>
>> Christian
--
Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype: TILBURY2591
12:32 p.m.
On Thu, Jul 25, 2024 at 7:03 AM Christopher Zach via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
I have always heard that Dec screwed with the smd
spec. Maybe not?
On July 25, 2024 12:41:57 PM GMT+02:00, Michael Thompson via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
>The CDC test system for the RM03 is a standard SMD device. You disconnect the Massbus
interface and connect the test system where the Massbus interface was connected. So the
drive interface is probably standard SMD.
Back in the late 80s I worked for a guy at a general-purpose shop.
Mostly he resold things, some over-the-counter, some custom PC builds,
and some repair jobs. In house, he ran a small VAX and a couple
PDP-11s. At one point, he got an RM03 or two and had me try to get
them working with a 3rd-party Unibus SMD controller (his main disks
were SMD). I was only about 21-22 and he knew a lot more about
electronics than I did. He already had a working 9762. We compared
the cards in the drive card cages (the RM03 has a different outer skin
but the innards are pure CDC). There were 1-2 visible differences
between how the RM03 and the 9762 were populated. We spent a few days
on it, but we weren't able to get the RM03 talking to the Emulex SMD
controller so we buttoned up the RM03s which ended up getting bought
by my next employer (cheap backup hardware for our 160MB Fuji drive
that emulated two RM03s and was the boot drive for our 11/750).
So... my recommendation is to look over schematics for differences. I
think there are some. With the community's present knowledge and
access to tools and disposable MCUs, I think success is much more
likely now than it was 35 years ago.
-ethan
8:40 a.m.
Hi Christian,
As others have indicated, the drive has an SMD interface.
FWIW, I have a drive which was working when I acquired it a number of years ago, along
with a bunch
of disk packs and I have some emulex unibus disc controllers (SC31, SC72). If you are
interested in
these items, I am looking to reduce my collection (I have loads of pdp11 hardware). Where
are you
located? I am in NW Indiana...
--tom
On 7/25/24 04:59, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:
Hello all,
we now have a RM03 drive, but are missing all the cables and the RH11 backplane, though I
have the
cards.
Since the drive itself is a CDC 9762 I was wondering if I could ignore the Massbus
adapter in the
drive cabinet and use the CDC as a "normal" SMD drive (at least it uses the
standard 60+26 pin
cables).
There are no service manuals/schematics of the drive itself, so I can't look there.
And all I
could find on the net were discussions of using the Massbus adapter for normal SMD drives
but in
my case, I don't want Massbus at all.
Christian
8:47 a.m.
I forgot to mention that your online resource for vintage docs is here:
http://bitsavers.org/pdf/emulex/
--tom
On 7/25/24 07:40, Tom Uban via cctalk wrote:
Hi Christian,
As others have indicated, the drive has an SMD interface.
FWIW, I have a drive which was working when I acquired it a number of years ago, along
with a
bunch of disk packs and I have some emulex unibus disc controllers (SC31, SC72). If you
are
interested in these items, I am looking to reduce my collection (I have loads of pdp11
hardware).
Where are you located? I am in NW Indiana...
--tom
On 7/25/24 04:59, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:
Hello all,
we now have a RM03 drive, but are missing all the cables and the RH11 backplane, though I
have
the cards.
Since the drive itself is a CDC 9762 I was wondering if I could ignore the Massbus
adapter in the
drive cabinet and use the CDC as a "normal" SMD drive (at least it uses the
standard 60+26 pin
cables).
There are no service manuals/schematics of the drive itself, so I can't look there.
And all I
could find on the net were discussions of using the Massbus adapter for normal SMD drives
but in
my case, I don't want Massbus at all.
Christian
8:58 a.m.
On Thu, 25 Jul 2024, Tom Uban wrote:
I forgot to mention that your online resource for
vintage docs is here:
http://bitsavers.org/pdf/emulex/
I know, I'm one of the official mirror hosters of bitsavers ;-)
Christian
9:05 a.m.
On 7/25/24 07:59, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jul 2024, Tom Uban wrote:
Ok, well, while I have a friend in Northern Germany (near Luebeck), it does not help...
--tom
controllers (SC31, SC72). If you are interested
in these items, I am looking to reduce my
collection (I have loads of pdp11 hardware). Where are you located? I am in NW Indiana...
South Germany...
Christian
9:36 a.m.
On 2024-07-25 09:05, Tom Uban via cctalk wrote:
On 7/25/24 07:59, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:
IIRC the 50Hz conversion required replacing the pulleys on the main
drive, probably unobtainium nowadays!
cheers,
Nigel
--
Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype: TILBURY2591
On Thu, 25 Jul 2024, Tom Uban wrote:
Ok, well, while I have a friend in Northern Germany (near Luebeck), it
does not help...
--tom
controllers (SC31, SC72). If you are interested
in these items, I am
looking to reduce my collection (I have loads of pdp11 hardware).
Where are you located? I am in NW Indiana...
South Germany...
Christian
9:43 a.m.
On Jul 25, 2024, at 9:36 AM, Nigel Johnson Ham via
cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 2024-07-25 09:05, Tom Uban via cctalk wrote:
Not to anyone who has a lathe. Making a pulley is an easy job. You just need to find, or
calculate, the proper dimensions.
paul
On 7/25/24 07:59, Christian Corti via cctalk
wrote:
IIRC the 50Hz conversion required replacing the pulleys on the main drive,
probably unobtainium nowadays! On Thu, 25 Jul 2024, Tom Uban wrote:
Ok, well, while I have a friend in Northern Germany (near Luebeck), it does not help...
--tom
controllers (SC31, SC72). If you are interested
in these items, I am looking to reduce my collection (I have loads of pdp11 hardware).
Where are you located? I am in NW Indiana...
South Germany...
Christian 
11:40 a.m.
On 7/25/24 08:36, Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk wrote:
On 2024-07-25 09:05, Tom Uban via cctalk wrote:
But, those could easily be made by anybody with a lathe.
Jon
On 7/25/24 07:59, Christian Corti via cctalk
wrote:
IIRC the 50Hz conversion required replacing the pulleys on
the main drive, probably unobtainium nowadays! On Thu, 25 Jul 2024, Tom Uban wrote:
Ok, well, while I have a friend in Northern Germany (near
Luebeck), it does not help...
--tom
controllers (SC31, SC72). If you are interested
in
these items, I am looking to reduce my collection (I
have loads of pdp11 hardware). Where are you located? I
am in NW Indiana...
South Germany...
Christian
9:31 a.m.
An rm03? I could use one for my 2020
On July 25, 2024 2:40:57 PM GMT+02:00, Tom Uban via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
Hi Christian,
As others have indicated, the drive has an SMD interface.
FWIW, I have a drive which was working when I acquired it a number of years ago, along
with a bunch of disk packs and I have some emulex unibus disc controllers (SC31, SC72). If
you are interested in these items, I am looking to reduce my collection (I have loads of
pdp11 hardware). Where are you located? I am in NW Indiana...
--tom
On 7/25/24 04:59, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:
Hello all,
we now have a RM03 drive, but are missing all the cables and the RH11 backplane, though I
have the cards.
Since the drive itself is a CDC 9762 I was wondering if I could ignore the Massbus
adapter in the drive cabinet and use the CDC as a "normal" SMD drive (at least
it uses the standard 60+26 pin cables).
There are no service manuals/schematics of the drive itself, so I can't look there.
And all I could find on the net were discussions of using the Massbus adapter for normal
SMD drives but in my case, I don't want Massbus at all.
Christian
12:27 p.m.
I'd be interested in the unibus SMD controllers as I'm in the middle of
working on an SMD emulator and it would be "nice" to be able to use one
on my 11/40 (my 11/70 already has an SMD controller in the RH70 slots).
TTFN - Guy
On 7/25/24 05:40, Tom Uban via cctalk wrote:
Hi Christian,
As others have indicated, the drive has an SMD interface.
FWIW, I have a drive which was working when I acquired it a number of
years ago, along with a bunch of disk packs and I have some emulex
unibus disc controllers (SC31, SC72). If you are interested in these
items, I am looking to reduce my collection (I have loads of pdp11
hardware). Where are you located? I am in NW Indiana...
--tom
On 7/25/24 04:59, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:
--
TTFN - Guy
Hello all,
we now have a RM03 drive, but are missing all the cables and the RH11
backplane, though I have the cards.
Since the drive itself is a CDC 9762 I was wondering if I could
ignore the Massbus adapter in the drive cabinet and use the CDC as a
"normal" SMD drive (at least it uses the standard 60+26 pin cables).
There are no service manuals/schematics of the drive itself, so I
can't look there. And all I could find on the net were discussions of
using the Massbus adapter for normal SMD drives but in my case, I
don't want Massbus at all.
Christian
9:43 a.m.
On Jul 25, 2024, at 5:59 AM, Christian Corti via
cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Hello all,
we now have a RM03 drive, but are missing all the cables and the RH11 backplane, though I
have the cards.
Since the drive itself is a CDC 9762 I was wondering if I could ignore the Massbus
adapter in the drive cabinet and use the CDC as a "normal" SMD drive (at least
it uses the standard 60+26 pin cables).
There are no service manuals/schematics of the drive itself, so I can't look there.
And all I could find on the net were discussions of using the Massbus adapter for normal
SMD drives but in my case, I don't want Massbus at all.
Sure there are online manuals; look here https://bitsavers.org/pdf/cdc/discs/ -- I see
9762 mentioned in the "smd" subdirectory and there is also an
"smd_interface_specs" subdirectory.
paul
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17 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
Christian Corti -
Christopher Zach -
Ethan Dicks -
Guy Sotomayor -
Jon Elson -
Michael Thompson -
Nigel Johnson Ham -
Paul Koning -
Tom Uban