10 Oct
2022
10 Oct
'22
5:53 p.m.
Is there a 3D print gcode for the hardware that connects a PDP8a front
panel to the chassis?
Is there anyone who has a spare clips/clamps hardware to attach a PDP 8a
console to the chassis?
I picked up the donated PDP 8a mentioned earlier on this list, I got it up
and running. I need to track down the hardware to attach the front panel
to the chassis. I do have spares of the hardware that attaches the ON/OFF
panel to the chassis.
AS with all "free" donations it's the final mile that costs the big $$
Thanks
Bill
10 Oct
10 Oct
11 p.m.
theres 3d print models made of them theres the orig design with does not
prit very well and a modified design thats better list forget where
might be buried on this site?
https://so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/repair/repair.php
On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 7:53 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Is there a 3D print gcode for the hardware that
connects a PDP8a front
panel to the chassis?
Is there anyone who has a spare clips/clamps hardware to attach a PDP 8a
console to the chassis?
I picked up the donated PDP 8a mentioned earlier on this list, I got it up
and running. I need to track down the hardware to attach the front panel
to the chassis. I do have spares of the hardware that attaches the ON/OFF
panel to the chassis.
AS with all "free" donations it's the final mile that costs the big $$
Thanks
Bill
11:37 p.m.
On 10/10/2022 11:00 PM, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote:
theres 3d print models made of them theres the orig
design with does not
prit very well and a modified design thats better list forget where
might be buried on this site?
https://so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/repair/repair.php
I tried to do one here:
https://so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/cad/3d.php
but I haven't actually printed or used it yet. (I have the original
parts, and no free access to a 3D printer at the moment.)
Vince
On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 7:53 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk
<
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
> Is there a 3D print gcode for the hardware that connects a PDP8a front
> panel to the chassis?
>
> Is there anyone who has a spare clips/clamps hardware to attach a PDP 8a
> console to the chassis?
>
> I picked up the donated PDP 8a mentioned earlier on this list, I got it up
> and running. I need to track down the hardware to attach the front panel
> to the chassis. I do have spares of the hardware that attaches the ON/OFF
> panel to the chassis.
>
> AS with all "free" donations it's the final mile that costs the big $$
>
> Thanks
>
> Bill
>
11 Oct
11 Oct
6:16 a.m.
I have a pretty good 3d printer, I.can at least try. I imagine the
standard front panel cover clips should be easy enough, but the pdp8a needs
something stronger with screws and bolts, right? I need to check the
enclosure hardware documents
On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 2:37 AM Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 10/10/2022 11:00 PM, Adrian Stoness via cctalk
wrote:
theres 3d print models made of them theres the
orig design with does not
prit very well and a modified design thats better list forget where
might be buried on this site?
https://so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/repair/repair.php
I tried to do one here:
https://so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/cad/3d.php
but I haven't actually printed or used it yet. (I have the original
parts, and no free access to a 3D printer at the moment.)
Vince
On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 7:53 PM Bill Degnan via
cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
> Is there a 3D print gcode for the hardware that connects a PDP8a front
> panel to the chassis?
>
> Is there anyone who has a spare clips/clamps hardware to attach a PDP 8a
> console to the chassis?
>
> I picked up the donated PDP 8a mentioned earlier on this list, I got it
up
> and running. I need to track down the
hardware to attach the front
panel
> to the chassis. I do have spares of the
hardware that attaches the
ON/OFF
> panel to the chassis.
>
> AS with all "free" donations it's the final mile that costs the big
$$
>
> Thanks
>
> Bill
>
7:53 a.m.
On 10/11/2022 6:16 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:
I have a pretty good 3d printer, I.can at least try.
I imagine the
standard front panel cover clips should be easy enough, but the pdp8a needs
something stronger with screws and bolts, right? I need to check the
enclosure hardware documents
Once you've printed one, it might be possible to cast additional ones
more quickly and the result might be stronger. That metal bezel with the
two PCB inside is rather heavy for a plastic mount.
Vince
On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 2:37 AM Vincent Slyngstad via
cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
> On 10/10/2022 11:00 PM, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote:
>> theres 3d print models made of them theres the orig design with does not
>> prit very well and a modified design thats better list forget where
>> might be buried on this site?
>> https://so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/repair/repair.php
>
> I tried to do one here:
> https://so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/cad/3d.php
> but I haven't actually printed or used it yet. (I have the original
> parts, and no free access to a 3D printer at the moment.)
>
> Vince
>
>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 7:53 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk <
>> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Is there a 3D print gcode for the hardware that connects a PDP8a front
>>> panel to the chassis?
>>>
>>> Is there anyone who has a spare clips/clamps hardware to attach a PDP 8a
>>> console to the chassis?
>>>
>>> I picked up the donated PDP 8a mentioned earlier on this list, I got it
> up
>>> and running. I need to track down the hardware to attach the front
> panel
>>> to the chassis. I do have spares of the hardware that attaches the
> ON/OFF
>>> panel to the chassis.
>>>
>>> AS with all "free" donations it's the final mile that costs the
big $$
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>
>
8:17 a.m.
Bill Degnan Mbilldegnan(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Is there a 3D print gcode for the hardware that connects a PDP8a front
panel to the chassis?
Assuming you're talking about the KC8-A (the panel with the push buttons and 7
segment displays) then I think there were at least two versions. The older version was
pressed onto those plastic ball things that all DEC "pop panels" used. That
didn't work very well, because those plastic pop panel mounts are super easy to
break.
There was a later version that mounted with two metal brackets. The brackets screwed to
the rack rails and were bent to conform to the inside contour of the KC8. There's a
setscrew in each bracket that attached it to the KC8, and there's a small hole drilled
in the bottom of both sides of the KC8 so you could access the screw from the outside.
Annoyingly the PDP-11/04 and 34, which had a panel that was mechanically nearly
identical, used an entirely differently mounting scheme, so there's no help there.
I've never seen one of these brackets nor a mechanical drawing for one, but if you
find out anything please let me know. I have an 8/A in the garage with the front panel
held on by wire ties ('cause I don't have anything better!).
Bob
8:25 a.m.
Bob
Yup that's the one I have, thanks. At least I am not alone. I bet this
topic has come up in the past here.
Bill
On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 11:17 AM Robert Armstrong via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Bill Degnan
Mbilldegnan(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Is there a 3D print gcode for the hardware that connects a PDP8a front
panel to the chassis?
Assuming you're talking about the KC8-A (the panel with the push buttons
and 7 segment displays) then I think there were at least two versions. The
older version was pressed onto those plastic ball things that all DEC "pop
panels" used. That didn't work very well, because those plastic pop panel
mounts are super easy to break.
There was a later version that mounted with two metal brackets. The
brackets screwed to the rack rails and were bent to conform to the inside
contour of the KC8. There's a setscrew in each bracket that attached it to
the KC8, and there's a small hole drilled in the bottom of both sides of
the KC8 so you could access the screw from the outside.
Annoyingly the PDP-11/04 and 34, which had a panel that was
mechanically nearly identical, used an entirely differently mounting
scheme, so there's no help there.
I've never seen one of these brackets nor a mechanical drawing for one,
but if you find out anything please let me know. I have an 8/A in the
garage with the front panel held on by wire ties ('cause I don't have
anything better!).
Bob
8:28 a.m.
On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 4:17 PM Robert Armstrong via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Annoyingly the PDP-11/04 and 34, which had a panel
that was mechanically nearly identical, used an entirely differently mounting scheme, so
there's no help there.
I wonder if that's because on the 11/04 and 11/34 the boards go in
from the top of the box whereas on the 8/a the boards go in from the
front. Therefore you have to remove the frontpanel to insert/remove
boards on the 8/a but you don't on the 11's. The 11's panel is rarely
removed.
-tony
8:34 a.m.
Tony Duell <ard.p850ug1(a)gmail.com>
I wonder if that's because on the 11/04 and 11/34
the boards go in
from the top of the box whereas on the 8/a the boards go in from the
front. Therefore you have to remove the frontpanel to insert/remove
boards on the 8/a but you don't on the 11's. The 11's panel is rarely
removed.
Yeah, kind of. I actually have an 11/04 too, and the console there just screws on to
the front of the BA11-K. Since the BA11-K has slides and pulls out of the rack and (as
you said) the boards are accessed from the top, there's no need to ever remove the
front panel.
Don't know what the BA11-L (that's the short box for the 11/04) did. I
don't think it had slides, but I'm not sure.
The BA8-C, OTOH, doesn't have slides and (as you said) the cards go in from the
front. So you need to remove the front panel anytime you want access to the cards, which
is a major pain.
Bob
8:36 a.m.
On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 4:34 PM Robert Armstrong <bob(a)jfcl.com> wrote:
Don't know what the BA11-L (that's the short
box for the 11/04) did. I don't think it had slides, but I'm not sure.
Is that the 3U (5.25" high) one?
If so, there's a metal sleeve that is screwed in the rack. The entire
chasis pulls out the front, the boards go in from the left side. Again
you rarely have to remoev the frontpanel.
-tony
8:40 a.m.
Tony Duell <ard.p850ug1(a)gmail.com>
Is that the 3U (5.25" high) one?
Yes..
If so, there's a metal sleeve that is screwed in
the rack.
Oh yeah, that would make sense. There was a QBUS chassis that worked the same way. Was
that a BA11-N? I forget - too many years have gone by :)
Bob
10:04 a.m.
On 10/11/2022 8:17 AM, Robert Armstrong via cctalk wrote:
Those are the ones. The 3D printed parts are essentially triangular
blocks that mount to the rack and have a drilled and tapped hole for the
recessed Allen screw.
Vince
Bill Degnan
Mbilldegnan(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Is there a 3D print gcode for the hardware that connects a PDP8a front
panel to the chassis?
Assuming you're talking about the KC8-A (the panel with the push buttons and 7
segment displays) then I think there were at least two versions. The older version was
pressed onto those plastic ball things that all DEC "pop panels" used. That
didn't work very well, because those plastic pop panel mounts are super easy to
break.
There was a later version that mounted with two metal brackets. The brackets screwed
to the rack rails and were bent to conform to the inside contour of the KC8. There's
a setscrew in each bracket that attached it to the KC8, and there's a small hole
drilled in the bottom of both sides of the KC8 so you could access the screw from the
outside.
10:08 a.m.
On 10/11/2022 8:17 AM, Robert Armstrong via cctalk wrote:
Those are the ones. The 3D printed parts are essentially triangular
blocks that mount to the rack and have a drilled and tapped hole for the
KC8's recessed Allen screw.
Vince
Bill Degnan
Mbilldegnan(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Is there a 3D print gcode for the hardware that connects a PDP8a front
panel to the chassis?
Assuming you're talking about the KC8-A (the panel with the push buttons and 7
segment displays) then I think there were at least two versions. The older version was
pressed onto those plastic ball things that all DEC "pop panels" used. That
didn't work very well, because those plastic pop panel mounts are super easy to
break.
There was a later version that mounted with two metal brackets. The brackets screwed
to the rack rails and were bent to conform to the inside contour of the KC8. There's
a setscrew in each bracket that attached it to the KC8, and there's a small hole
drilled in the bottom of both sides of the KC8 so you could access the screw from the
outside.
10:08 a.m.
On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 6:04 PM Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Those are the ones. The 3D printed parts are
essentially triangular
blocks that mount to the rack and have a drilled and tapped hole for the
recessed Allen screw.
Why on earth would you 3D print something like that? Machining it from
a metal block would be a lot stronger.
-tony
10:12 a.m.
Not everyone has a fully tooled machine shop, perhaps?
On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 10:09 AM Tony Duell via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 6:04 PM Vincent Slyngstad via
cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Those are the ones. The 3D printed parts are
essentially triangular
blocks that mount to the rack and have a drilled and tapped hole for the
recessed Allen screw.
Why on earth would you 3D print something like that? Machining it from
a metal block would be a lot stronger.
-tony
10:14 a.m.
On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 6:12 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Not everyone has a fully tooled machine shop, perhaps?
And not everyone has a 3D printer.
Moreover, a small lathe/mill capable of making that sorr of part is
probably cheaper than a 3D printer and will last a lot longer.
-tony
10:17 a.m.
On 10/11/2022 10:08 AM, Tony Duell wrote:
On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 6:04 PM Vincent Slyngstad via
cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
The DEC part is essentially bent bar stock, with a nut press-fit into
it. Also easy to to do if you have the tooling. I know a lot more folks
with a 3D printer than I do the folks with metalwork experience.
Vince
Those are the ones. The 3D printed parts are
essentially triangular
blocks that mount to the rack and have a drilled and tapped hole for the
recessed Allen screw.
Why on earth would you 3D print something like that? Machining it from
a metal block would be a lot stronger. 
10:20 a.m.
On 2022-10-11 11:14 a.m., Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:
On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 6:12 PM Sellam Abraham via
cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Well at one time you could find a small machine shop,
to do all this stuff. Other than cheap PCB's, I am not
sure if we are better off now than in 1975.
Ben.
Not everyone has a fully tooled machine shop, perhaps?
And not everyone has a 3D printer.
Moreover, a small lathe/mill capable of making that sorr of part is
probably cheaper than a 3D printer and will last a lot longer.
-tony 
10:48 a.m.
On Tue, 11 Oct 2022, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:
On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 6:12 PM Sellam Abraham via
cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
A good and usable 3D printer is going to be a lot cheaper than even the
worst imported table-top metal working lathe. The mills you can buy for a
simliar price won't cut non-ferrous metals for crap, and won't cut ferrous
metals at all.
I would posit that more people have 3D printers at home than machine
tools. :)
If someone wants to provide me with a drawing, I'd be happy to design a 3D
model of the part and print a few of them for testing.
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
Not everyone has a fully tooled machine shop, perhaps?
And not everyone has a 3D printer.
Moreover, a small lathe/mill capable of making that sorr of part is
probably cheaper than a 3D printer and will last a lot longer.
10:49 a.m.
On Tue, 11 Oct 2022, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote:
On 10/11/2022 10:08 AM, Tony Duell wrote:
Got a photo of the part Vince?
tnx.
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 6:04 PM Vincent Slyngstad
via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
The DEC part is essentially bent bar stock, with a nut press-fit into it.
Also easy to to do if you have the tooling. I know a lot more folks with a 3D
printer than I do the folks with metalwork experience.
Those are the ones. The 3D printed parts are
essentially triangular
blocks that mount to the rack and have a drilled and tapped hole for the
recessed Allen screw.
Why on earth would you 3D print something like that? Machining it from
a metal block would be a lot stronger.
11:17 a.m.
On 10/11/2022 10:48 AM, geneb via cctalk wrote:
If someone wants to provide me with a drawing, I'd
be happy to design a
3D model of the part and print a few of them for testing.
Here's a pointer to mine:
https://so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/cad/3d.php
https://svn.so-much-stuff.com/svn/trunk/3D/8AClip/8aClip.jpg
The two holes in the base take screws to mount to the rack. Depending
on left vs right, you would drill and tap the indentations on one side
or the other.
I could swear there was a recent (in the last year) conversation with
Michael Thompson and others about this on VCForum, but it must have been
before the VCForum site moved, as the search tool didn't find it.
Anyway, the original is bent bar stock, with notching near the apex, and
a nut press-fit/spot welded where I've drawn an indent. I've drawn it
as a triangular plastic block in an effort to make it more structural.
A recessed screw in the KC8-A screws into the nut from the bottom to
attach the panel on each side.
Vince
12:23 p.m.
A local machine shop or even a college machine shop could knock out 10 of those in an hour
probably in steel. It’s worth investigating i think.
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 11, 2022, at 11:17, Vincent Slyngstad via
cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 10/11/2022 10:48 AM, geneb via cctalk wrote:
If someone wants to provide me with a drawing,
I'd be happy to design a 3D model of the part and print a few of them for testing.
Here's a pointer to mine:
https://so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/cad/3d.php
https://svn.so-much-stuff.com/svn/trunk/3D/8AClip/8aClip.jpg
The two holes in the base take screws to mount to the rack. Depending on left vs right,
you would drill and tap the indentations on one side or the other.
I could swear there was a recent (in the last year) conversation with Michael Thompson
and others about this on VCForum, but it must have been before the VCForum site moved, as
the search tool didn't find it.
Anyway, the original is bent bar stock, with notching near the apex, and a nut
press-fit/spot welded where I've drawn an indent. I've drawn it as a triangular
plastic block in an effort to make it more structural.
A recessed screw in the KC8-A screws into the nut from the bottom to attach the panel on
each side.
Vince
12:27 p.m.
On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 8:23 PM Wayne S via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
A local machine shop or even a college machine shop could knock out 10 of those in an
hour probably in steel. It’s worth investigating i think.
I reckon you could make a couple (i.e. what you need for one machine)
from steel or brass in an hour using only hand tools. The only things
you'd need that are not in every reasonable toolkit are a 6-32 UNC tap
and whatever the correct tapping drill is for that.
-tony
12:32 p.m.
Definitely! Easy-peasey.
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 11, 2022, at 12:28, Tony Duell
<ard.p850ug1(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 8:23 PM Wayne S via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
A local machine shop or even a college machine shop could knock out 10 of those in an
hour probably in steel. It’s worth investigating i think.
I reckon you could make a couple (i.e. what you need for one machine)
from steel or brass in an hour using only hand tools. The only things
you'd need that are not in every reasonable toolkit are a 6-32 UNC tap
and whatever the correct tapping drill is for that.
-tony
12:37 p.m.
On Tue, 11 Oct 2022, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote:
On 10/11/2022 10:48 AM, geneb via cctalk wrote:
I wonder if a heat-set insert would allow you to replicate the original
design...
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
If someone wants to provide me with a drawing,
I'd be happy to design a 3D
model of the part and print a few of them for testing.
Here's a pointer to mine:
https://so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/cad/3d.php
https://svn.so-much-stuff.com/svn/trunk/3D/8AClip/8aClip.jpg
The two holes in the base take screws to mount to the rack. Depending on
left vs right, you would drill and tap the indentations on one side or the
other.
Anyway, the original is bent bar stock, with notching near the apex, and a
nut press-fit/spot welded where I've drawn an indent. I've drawn it as a
triangular plastic block in an effort to make it more structural.
1:49 p.m.
On 10/11/2022 12:37 PM, geneb via cctalk wrote:
You mean in the metal, or the plastic?
In the plastic, an insert would be more durable, but then again it would
be another part you'd have to stock, rather than print.
Vince
Anyway, the
original is bent bar stock, with notching near the apex,
and a nut press-fit/spot welded where I've drawn an indent. I've
drawn it as a triangular plastic block in an effort to make it more
structural.
I wonder if a heat-set insert would allow you to replicate the original
design...
1:51 p.m.
On 10/11/2022 12:27 PM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:
I reckon you could make a couple (i.e. what you need
for one machine)
from steel or brass in an hour using only hand tools. The only things
you'd need that are not in every reasonable toolkit are a 6-32 UNC tap
and whatever the correct tapping drill is for that.
Sure. Though you still need a technical drawing, which "comes with" the
3D printer (or other CNC) design.
Vince
3:25 p.m.
On Tue, 11 Oct 2022, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote:
On 10/11/2022 12:37 PM, geneb via cctalk wrote:
You mean in the metal, or the plastic?
In the plastic, an insert would be more durable, but then again it would be
another part you'd have to stock, rather than print.
I was referring to the plastic. A PEM fastener would do the same job in
metal. #6-32 heat set inserts are very cheap, even on Amazon. (less than
$20 for 100 of them)
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
Anyway,
the original is bent bar stock, with notching near the apex, and a
nut press-fit/spot welded where I've drawn an indent. I've drawn it as a
triangular plastic block in an effort to make it more structural.
I wonder if a heat-set insert would allow you to replicate the original
design...
4:21 p.m.
On 10/11/2022 10:49 AM, geneb via cctalk wrote:
On Tue, 11 Oct 2022, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk
wrote:
Bob Armstrong sent some pictures from Jack, which helped my find the
photos I knew were online somewhere:
https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/adding-a-programmers-console-to-a…
Vince
The DEC part is essentially bent bar stock, with
a nut press-fit into
it. Also easy to to do if you have the tooling. I know a lot more
folks with a 3D printer than I do the folks with metalwork experience.
Got a photo of the part Vince? 
12 Oct
12 Oct
1:26 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne S via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: 11 October 2022 20:23
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Cc: Wayne S <wayne.sudol(a)hotmail.com>
Subject: [cctalk] Re: PDP 8a front panel hardware
A local machine shop or even a college machine shop could knock out 10 of
those in an hour probably in steel. It’s worth investigating i think.
Many small machine shops have now switched to laser cutting. I got a load of paper tape
stuff from a place that was getting rid of its "traditional" CNC stuff and
switching to laser.
A year or too ago I went on a 12" train ride at a garden center. When I asked about
where he got the train from, he said it was a downloadable design, which was then laser
cut...
... even the wheels...
I have a 3-d printer, but I don't have much in the way of metal working tools. Its
that way round because friends already had such things and would make stuff for me...
Dave
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 11, 2022, at 11:17, Vincent Slyngstad via
cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 10/11/2022 10:48 AM, geneb via cctalk wrote:
> If someone wants to provide me with a drawing, I'd be happy to design a 3D
model of the part and print a few of them for testing.
Here's a pointer to mine:
https://so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/cad/3d.php
https://svn.so-much-stuff.com/svn/trunk/3D/8AClip/8aClip.jpg
The two holes in the base take screws to mount to the rack. Depending on left
vs
right, you would drill and tap the indentations on one side or the other.
I could swear there was a recent (in the last year) conversation with Michael
Thompson and others about this on VCForum, but it must have been before the
VCForum site moved, as the search tool didn't find it.
Anyway, the original is bent bar stock, with notching near the apex, and a nut
press-fit/spot welded where I've drawn an indent. I've drawn it as a triangular
plastic block in an effort to make it more structural.
A recessed screw in the KC8-A screws into the nut from the bottom to attach
the
panel on each side.
>
> Vince
7:38 a.m.
On Tue, 11 Oct 2022, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote:
On 10/11/2022 10:49 AM, geneb via cctalk wrote:
I get it now - the screw is perpendicular to the angled face, which means
a heat set insert would work out very well for a printed version of that
bracket. The original appears to be die cut and die formed. The nut used
also allows for some play in how the screw hole is going to line up...
Thanks for the link!
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
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A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
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On Tue, 11 Oct 2022, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk
wrote:
Bob Armstrong sent some pictures from Jack, which helped my find the photos I
knew were online somewhere:
https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/adding-a-programmers-console-to-a…
The DEC part is essentially bent bar stock, with
a nut press-fit into it.
Also easy to to do if you have the tooling. I know a lot more folks with a
3D printer than I do the folks with metalwork experience.
Got a photo of the part Vince? 
8:32 a.m.
On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 1:17 PM Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 10/11/2022 10:08 AM, Tony Duell wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 6:04 PM Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk
> <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
>> Those are the ones. The 3D printed parts are essentially triangular
>> blocks that mount to the rack and have a drilled and tapped hole for the
>> recessed Allen screw.
As a 3D Printed part, looks good.
> Why on earth would you 3D print something like
that? Machining it from
> a metal block would be a lot stronger.
Strength isn't the only parameter here. A plastic block is plenty
strong enough unless you routinely pull down on your front panel when
you are standing up.
I _am_ a fan of small machine shops, but even though I have access to
a very nice one at our Makerspace, it doesn't take me that long to
download a part file and press "print".
The DEC part is essentially bent bar stock, with a nut
press-fit into
it. Also easy to to do if you have the tooling.
Yep. I have mine right here. My micrometer is elsewhere, but looks
like it's made from 1/8" steel flat stock (with anti-corrosion
plating), and has 3 bends (apex and two ends), a clip-nut for the
machine screw in the cast face, and two mounting holes. Not hard to
make with a mill (or a file) and a break.
The clip nut is 10-32, BTW. I just checked. No more difficult to
source tooling than 6-32
If you made it from metal. you could skip the clip nut and tap the
bracket itself, but if you removed the face often, I could see that
eventually stripping-out.
I know a lot more folks with a 3D printer than I do
the folks with metalwork experience.
Agreed. I know lots of people with 3D Printers that cost $300 USD or
less, and they are much easier to learn to use than learning how to
run a mill (safely). There's absolutely nothing about this part that
you couldn't make on a 10-year-old tiny hobby 3D Printer. It's not
detailed and can easily be made from ABS or PLA (the most common
plastics). If you printed it on its side (with the notch facing
"up"), with unbroken filament going around the perimeter, it would be
a lot stronger than printing it "point up" in layers. Your mounting
holes might be a little more ragged but they are covered up anyway.
I haven't printed Vince's parts but on the surface, they look good.
One possible improvement could be to design in a pocket for a 10-32
nut. There are ways to print parts and pause the printing to install
metal hardware and overprint for retention. It's not a beginner's
technique, and heat-staked inserts are easier to apply, but a captured
nut can be made to float.
-ethan
8:34 a.m.
On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 7:21 PM Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Bob Armstrong sent some pictures from Jack, which
helped my find the
photos I knew were online somewhere:
https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/adding-a-programmers-console-to-a…
That's exactly what I have.
-ethan
8:36 a.m.
On Oct 12, 2022, at 11:32 AM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
That's the same clip nut used on H-960 racks. I saw some at the local hardware store
recently. An unusually well stocked hardware store, admittedly, but clearly they are
still current items.
paul
...
Yep. I have mine right here. My micrometer is elsewhere, but looks
like it's made from 1/8" steel flat stock (with anti-corrosion
plating), and has 3 bends (apex and two ends), a clip-nut for the
machine screw in the cast face, and two mounting holes. Not hard to
make with a mill (or a file) and a break.
The clip nut is 10-32, BTW. I just checked. No more difficult to
source tooling than 6-32
8:48 a.m.
On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 11:36 AM Paul Koning <paulkoning(a)comcast.net> wrote:
It's the same threading but not the same style. The H960 clip nuts I
have a real "nut" wrapped in a thin metal frame that wraps around the
rail. This clip nut is a bit of plate steel with a machined and
threaded "dimple" in the middle, and a small tang to latch into a thin
metal carrier that looks spot welded to the bracket.
You could probably use a rack clip nut in this application but I think
the hole in the bracket would have to be a tad larger for a standard
clip nut to engage, and then the cast metal front panel would be
resting on the face of that clip nut clip instead of directly on the
metal bracket with this design. It would probably affect a tight
seat, and might lead to scoring on the inner face of the casting.
Probably wouldn't matter much in practice, but a design and UX
engineer might not like the difference.
-ethan
The clip nut
is 10-32...
That's the same clip nut used on H-960 racks. I saw some at the local hardware store
recently. An unusually well stocked hardware store, admittedly, but clearly they are
still current items. 
9:39 a.m.
It is called a Tinnerman nut and they are available currently according
to a google search
cheers,
Nigel
Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype: TILBURY2591
On 2022-10-12 11:32, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 1:17 PM Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk
> <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
>> On 10/11/2022 10:08 AM, Tony Duell wrote:
>>> On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 6:04 PM Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk
>>> <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Those are the ones. The 3D printed parts are essentially triangular
>>>> blocks that mount to the rack and have a drilled and tapped hole for
the
>>>> recessed Allen screw.
> As a 3D Printed part, looks good.
>
>>> Why on earth would you 3D print something like that? Machining it from
>>> a metal block would be a lot stronger.
> Strength isn't the only parameter here. A plastic block is plenty
> strong enough unless you routinely pull down on your front panel when
> you are standing up.
>
> I _am_ a fan of small machine shops, but even though I have access to
> a very nice one at our Makerspace, it doesn't take me that long to
> download a part file and press "print".
>
>> The DEC part is essentially bent bar stock, with a nut press-fit into
>> it. Also easy to to do if you have the tooling.
> Yep. I have mine right here. My micrometer is elsewhere, but looks
> like it's made from 1/8" steel flat stock (with anti-corrosion
> plating), and has 3 bends (apex and two ends), a clip-nut for the
> machine screw in the cast face, and two mounting holes. Not hard to
> make with a mill (or a file) and a break.
>
> The clip nut is 10-32, BTW. I just checked. No more difficult to
> source tooling than 6-32
>
> If you made it from metal. you could skip the clip nut and tap the
> bracket itself, but if you removed the face often, I could see that
> eventually stripping-out.
>
>> I know a lot more folks with a 3D printer than I do the folks with metalwork
experience.
> Agreed. I know lots of people with 3D Printers that cost $300 USD or
> less, and they are much easier to learn to use than learning how to
> run a mill (safely). There's absolutely nothing about this part that
> you couldn't make on a 10-year-old tiny hobby 3D Printer. It's not
> detailed and can easily be made from ABS or PLA (the most common
> plastics). If you printed it on its side (with the notch facing
> "up"), with unbroken filament going around the perimeter, it would be
> a lot stronger than printing it "point up" in layers. Your mounting
> holes might be a little more ragged but they are covered up anyway.
>
> I haven't printed Vince's parts but on the surface, they look good.
> One possible improvement could be to design in a pocket for a 10-32
> nut. There are ways to print parts and pause the printing to install
> metal hardware and overprint for retention. It's not a beginner's
> technique, and heat-staked inserts are easier to apply, but a captured
> nut can be made to float.
>
> -ethan
585
days inactive
586
days old
36 comments
13 participants
participants (13)
-
Adrian Stoness -
ben -
Bill Degnan -
dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com -
Ethan Dicks -
geneb -
Nigel Johnson Ham -
Paul Koning -
Robert Armstrong -
Sellam Abraham -
Tony Duell -
Vincent Slyngstad -
Wayne S