19 May
2024
19 May
'24
11:46 a.m.
Thank you, Josh. How did your passion start with classical computers? Maybe this helps in
understanding the generation?
Regards,
Tarek Hoteit
On May 19, 2024, at 08:39, Joshua Rice via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Younger folk are indeed more ignorant of where technology came from, but i wouldn't
say all of them are. I'm 32 years young and, well, i'm posting this email on the
mailing list, so that probably says enough.
Sure, the pool of those interested in old computer tech might be smaller nowadays than it
used to be, but then so is the pool of those interested in Ford Model T's or gasoline
powered Maytag washing machines, or steam traction engines. But as long as stuff exists,
there will be people interested in tinkering with it. It's just that some tech is just
not relevant any more, so those exposed to it or used it in anger are going to be fewer
and far between.
It's OK to be concerned, but i don't think the retro computing scene is as dire
as some might make it out to be.
Cheers,
Josh Rice
> On 19/05/2024 16:14, Tarek Hoteit via cctalk wrote:
> A friend of a friend had a birthday gathering. Everyone there was in their thirties,
except for myself, my wife, and our friend. Anyway, I met a Google engineer, a Microsoft
data scientist, an Amazon AWS recruiter (I think she was a recruiter), and a few others in
tech who are friends with the party host. I had several conversations about computer
origins, the early days of computing, its importance in what we have today, and so on.
What I found disappointing and saddening at the same time is their utmost ignorance about
computing history or even early computers. Except for their recall of the 3.5 floppy or
early 2000’s Windows, there was absolutely nothing else that they were familiar with. That
made me wonder if this is a sign that our living version of classical personal computing,
in which many of us here in this group witnessed the invention of personal computing in
the 70s, will stop with our generation. I assume that the most engaging folks in this
newsgroup are in their fifties and beyond. (No offense to anyone. I am turning fifty
myself) I sense that no other generation following this user group's generation will
ever talk about Altairs, CP/M s, PDPs, S100 buses, Pascal, or anything deemed exciting in
computing. Is there hope, or is this the end of the line for the most exciting era of
personal computers? Thoughts?
> Regards,
> Tarek Hoteit
19 May
19 May
12:14 p.m.
New subject: Thirties techies and computing history
On Sun, May 19, 2024 at 8:56 AM Tarek Hoteit via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Thank you, Josh. How did your passion start with
classical computers?
Maybe this helps in understanding the generation?
Regards,
Tarek Hoteit
I was 26 when I joined the list in 1997. I was a younger member of the
crowd back then, because my experience with computers was limited to
micros, whereas a lot of the discussion on the list was about minicomputers
and mainframes that came well before my time, so I imagine that there were
members in their 50s and 60s in the early days.
Now I'm in my 50s and have observed 25 more years of invention and
development in the computer field, and the growth of this hobby in terms of
size and reach (it's now global). Now there are guys (and gals) in their
60s, 70s and 80s involved in the hobby, maintaining old systems, attending
VCFs and reminiscing on mailing lists. It's definitely become
multigenerational.
I see so many parallels in the hobby currently to my time when I first got
into it. The things younger folks are doing today with the benefit of
coming into a world more increasingly computerized than the one I did, and
having access at a younger age to the tools of technology and having a
comfort and proficiency with them, can do stuff I could only dream about a
quarter century ago, just as I then was able to easily and readily
accomplish things with old machines--with the benefit of the internet--that
those who came before me only dreamt about in their time.
The most amazing thing to me about computer history back in the 1990s and
early 2000s when this hobby really started to get going is that we lived at
a time when many of the people who literally invented the industry were
still around to be interviewed. It would be like a classic car collector
being able to go meet Ford and ask him questions in person about the Model
A or whatever.
Sellam
12:28 p.m.
New subject: Thirties techies and computing history
Well my interest in computers started in my teens. I liked tinkering
with hardware and playing with OSes, but growing up in the 2000's, the
technology landscape had already "stagnated" into PC dominance. I
suppose there's only so much messing with Linux and other FOSS operating
systems you can do before you yearn for something different.
Getting hold of a BBC Micro in my early 20's definitely scratched that
"something different" itch, and i found i quite liked it. 10 years later
and i've got a house full of tinkering projects. The vintage computing
bug bit me well and truly in my early 20's, when i was old enough to at
least know the basics of what i was doing.
It generally helps to be exposed to this stuff at a young age. For me, i
just found modern tech to be quite "mundane", and yearned for something
different, so seeked out vintage systems on my own back. I guess it's
the same for car mechanics who have a classic car they tinker with on
the weekends, or electricians and electrical engineers who mess around
with vintage AV equipment as a side hobby. Some people might have seen
their object of desire in old TV or films, or went to a museum or show
and saw something that intrigues them, and felt it would be worthwhile
persuing the desire to have their own to tinker with. Of course, there
are those that get into it when they're older. I'm pretty sure Adrian
Black didn't get into vintage computing until fairly recently, and he's
got a few more years on him than i do.
Where people who get into a hobby revolving around vintage technology of
whatever caliber they choose, actually get their inspiration from, will
be different for everyone. But the fact that there's 150 year old steam
engines still working today shows that you don't have to have used this
stuff in "anger" to have an interest in preserving it.
Cheers,
Josh Rice
On 19/05/2024 16:46, Tarek Hoteit wrote:
Thank you, Josh. How did your passion start with
classical computers? Maybe this helps in understanding the generation?
Regards,
Tarek Hoteit
20 May
20 May
4:56 a.m.
New subject: Thirties techies and computing history
On Sun, May 19, 2024 at 4:56 PM Tarek Hoteit via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Thank you, Josh. How did your passion start with classical computers? Maybe this helps in
understanding the generation?
I know how I got started, but not really why. Although I can explain
how it progressed.
It was May 1986, I was at a sale of old electronics hoping to get a
keyboard for my homebrew computer (this was before cheap PC keyboards
in the UK). I saw a Philips P850 minicomputer being sold essentially
for the scrap metal price. It had the user and service manuals with
it, and it had a lights-and-switches front panel which I'd read about
and never used. I bought it and somehow got it back to my student
room.
That evening I realised that there was a period of about 25 years of
computing which was going to be lost and forgotten if nobody did
something about it. So I did something and started collecting and
restoring all the old computers I could find. It was a lot easier to
find minicomputers and the like back then than it is now.
But why did I buy that initial P850? I am not sure. I've always been
interested in the history of electronics and computers, so perhaps
that was it.
-tony
6:08 a.m.
New subject: Thirties techies and computing history
Den 2024-05-20 kl. 10:56 skrev Tony Duell via cctalk:
On Sun, May 19, 2024 at 4:56 PM Tarek Hoteit via
cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
I used to work on the P6000 series, and they had a very interesting
architecture. For those who want to know a bit more about Philips'
history, I can recommend an e-book written by one of the guys in Sweden,
where the P6000 series was developped. The P6000 was based on the P800,
but extended into a system appropiate for bookings, airline
reservations, banking etc.
(Link below).
The author is Mats Danielson. By the way, the James Bond film "For your
eyes only" shows a lot of Philips hardware. The "atomic comb" is a PTS
6272 keyboard with (I think) a display boltet to the back of it.
Hilarious, just like the book.
/Nico
---------------------------
Read my new history book (free e-book)
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/377777427_The_Rise_and_Fall_of_Phi…
/Nico
Thank you, Josh. How did your passion start with
classical computers? Maybe this helps in understanding the generation?
I know how I
got started, but not really why. Although I can explain
how it progressed.
It was May 1986, I was at a sale of old electronics hoping to get a
keyboard for my homebrew computer (this was before cheap PC keyboards
in the UK). I saw a Philips P850 minicomputer being sold essentially
for the scrap metal price. It had the user and service manuals with
it, and it had a lights-and-switches front panel which I'd read about
and never used. I bought it and somehow got it back to my student
room.
That evening I realised that there was a period of about 25 years of
computing which was going to be lost and forgotten if nobody did
something about it. So I did something and started collecting and
restoring all the old computers I could find. It was a lot easier to
find minicomputers and the like back then than it is now.
But why did I buy that initial P850? I am not sure. I've always been
interested in the history of electronics and computers, so perhaps
that was it.
-tony 
9:26 a.m.
New subject: Thirties techies and computing history
On May 20, 2024, at 6:08 AM, Nico de Jong via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
...
I used to work on the P6000 series, and they had a very interesting architecture. For
those who want to know a bit more about Philips' history, I can recommend an e-book
written by one of the guys in Sweden, where the P6000 series was developped. The P6000 was
based on the P800, but extended into a system appropiate for bookings, airline
reservations, banking etc.
(Link below).
The author is Mats Danielson. By the way, the James Bond film "For your eyes
only" shows a lot of Philips hardware. The "atomic comb" is a PTS 6272
keyboard with (I think) a display boltet to the back of it. Hilarious, just like the
book.
/Nico
---------------------------
Read my new history book (free e-book)
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/377777427_The_Rise_and_Fall_of_Phi…
Nice!
I just flipped through it briefly, and spotted what was the Electrologica headquarters
(page 143). And a few pages later there is a bit of history that explains the French
origin of the PR8000 (or P8000), which was where I learned assembly language programming.
Quite a neat machine but very little documentation of it still exists.
paul
9:33 a.m.
New subject: Thirties techies and computing history
Den 2024-05-20 kl. 15:26 skrev Paul Koning via cctalk:
I have quite a lot of documentation for the P85x CPU's and other stuff.
Let me know what you need.
/Nico
On May 20, 2024, at 6:08 AM, Nico de Jong via
cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
...
I used to work on the P6000 series, and they had a very interesting architecture. For
those who want to know a bit more about Philips' history, I can recommend an e-book
written by one of the guys in Sweden, where the P6000 series was developped. The P6000 was
based on the P800, but extended into a system appropiate for bookings, airline
reservations, banking etc.
(Link below).
The author is Mats Danielson. By the way, the James Bond film "For your eyes
only" shows a lot of Philips hardware. The "atomic comb" is a PTS 6272
keyboard with (I think) a display boltet to the back of it. Hilarious, just like the
book.
/Nico
---------------------------
Read my new history book (free e-book)
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/377777427_The_Rise_and_Fall_of_Phi…
Nice!
I just flipped through it briefly, and spotted what was the Electrologica headquarters
(page 143). And a few pages later there is a bit of history that explains the French
origin of the PR8000 (or P8000), which was where I learned assembly language programming.
Quite a neat machine but very little documentation of it still exists.
paul
9:42 a.m.
New subject: Thirties techies and computing history
On May 20, 2024, at 9:33 AM, Nico de Jong via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Den 2024-05-20 kl. 15:26 skrev Paul Koning via cctalk:
The P85x are 16-bit machines, right? The PR8000 is 24 bits. The only documentation I
have seen is what I supplied to Bitsavers.
paul
...
I just flipped through it briefly, and spotted what was the Electrologica headquarters
(page 143). And a few pages later there is a bit of history that explains the French
origin of the PR8000 (or P8000), which was where I learned assembly language programming.
Quite a neat machine but very little documentation of it still exists.
paul
I have quite a lot of documentation for the P85x CPU's and other stuff. Let me know
what you need.
/Nico
46
days inactive
47
days old
7 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
Joshua Rice -
Nico de Jong -
Paul Koning -
Sellam Abraham -
Tarek Hoteit -
Tony Duell