23 Apr
2023
23 Apr
'23
1:55 p.m.
It looks like his air museum was acquired by one of the Walmart heirs.
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/after-3-years-flying…
After 3 years, Flying Heritage Museum to reopen in Everett
seattletimes.com
I wonder if something like this will happen with the computer museum.
Question, were Paul Allen’s museums non-profits?
Zane
23 Apr
23 Apr
10:45 p.m.
Bad link Zane I get a weird screen from the timeEd#
Sent from AOL on Android
On Sun, Apr 23, 2023 at 10:29 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote: It looks like his air museum was acquired by one of the Walmart heirs.
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/after-3-years-flying…
After 3 years, Flying Heritage Museum to reopen in Everett
seattletimes.com
I wonder if something like this will happen with the computer museum.
Question, were Paul Allen’s museums non-profits?
Zane
24 Apr
24 Apr
3:18 a.m.
On 24/04/2023 06:45, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote:
Bad link Zane I get a weird screen from the timeEd#
Delete the strange character after the last "/" and it will work:
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/after-3-years-flying…
--
Pete
Pete Turnbull
8:30 a.m.
On 4/24/23 03:18, Pete Turnbull via cctalk wrote:
On 24/04/2023 06:45, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote:
As I understand the situation, Jody, Paul's sister, is the named
executor for Paul's assets. I've read that his instructions were to
sell off most of the assets and donate the proceeds to charity. In
other words, the LCM will be sold; whether or not it remains intact is a
decision made by the purchaser.
--Chuck
Bad link Zane I get a weird screen from the
timeEd#
Delete the strange character after the last "/" and it will work:
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/after-3-years-flying…
10:41 a.m.
Well, it was his stuff, and he had a right to decide what to do with it
after his passing.
But I have and am entitled to my opinions, and that is utter shite.
Sellam
On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 8:30 AM Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 4/24/23 03:18, Pete Turnbull via cctalk wrote:
On 24/04/2023 06:45, ED SHARPE via cctalk
wrote:
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/after-3-years-flying…
As I understand the situation, Jody, Paul's sister, is the named
executor for Paul's assets. I've read that his instructions were to
sell off most of the assets and donate the proceeds to charity. In
other words, the LCM will be sold; whether or not it remains intact is a
decision made by the purchaser.
--Chuck
Bad link Zane I get a weird screen from the
timeEd#
Delete the strange character after the last "/" and it will work:
11:16 p.m.
Hopefully the LCM will be sold as a going concern rather than just a
firesale of the assets.
Otherwise a lot of donors and contributors would be rightfully upset - me
included.
I am disappointed that Bill Gates hasn't bought it already to continue
Paul's vision.
Tom
On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 11:30 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 4/24/23 03:18, Pete Turnbull via cctalk wrote:
On 24/04/2023 06:45, ED SHARPE via cctalk
wrote:
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/after-3-years-flying…
As I understand the situation, Jody, Paul's sister, is the named
executor for Paul's assets. I've read that his instructions were to
sell off most of the assets and donate the proceeds to charity. In
other words, the LCM will be sold; whether or not it remains intact is a
decision made by the purchaser.
--Chuck
Bad link Zane I get a weird screen from the
timeEd#
Delete the strange character after the last "/" and it will work:
25 Apr
25 Apr
12:39 a.m.
Little old Billy G?
lol, like he gives a shit. He's too busy selling his snake oil and figuring
out ways to turn bugs and chemicals into your next meal.
I literally should have strangled him to death when I had the opportunity.
Sellam
On Mon, Apr 24, 2023, 11:17 PM Tom Hunter via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
Hopefully the LCM will be sold as a going concern
rather than just a
firesale of the assets.
Otherwise a lot of donors and contributors would be rightfully upset - me
included.
I am disappointed that Bill Gates hasn't bought it already to continue
Paul's vision.
Tom
On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 11:30 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 4/24/23 03:18, Pete Turnbull via cctalk
wrote:
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/after-3-years-flying…
On 24/04/2023 06:45, ED SHARPE via cctalk
wrote:
Bad link Zane I get a weird screen from the
timeEd#
Delete the strange character after the last "/" and it will work:
As I understand the situation, Jody, Paul's sister, is the named
executor for Paul's assets. I've read that his instructions were to
sell off most of the assets and donate the proceeds to charity. In
other words, the LCM will be sold; whether or not it remains intact is a
decision made by the purchaser.
--Chuck
12:47 a.m.
...had the opportunity?Tell us more!
Sent from AOL on Android
On Tue, Apr 25, 2023 at 12:39 AM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote: Little old Billy G?
lol, like he gives a shit. He's too busy selling his snake oil and figuring
out ways to turn bugs and chemicals into your next meal.
I literally should have strangled him to death when I had the opportunity.
Sellam
On Mon, Apr 24, 2023, 11:17 PM Tom Hunter via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
Hopefully the LCM will be sold as a going concern
rather than just a
firesale of the assets.
Otherwise a lot of donors and contributors would be rightfully upset - me
included.
I am disappointed that Bill Gates hasn't bought it already to continue
Paul's vision.
Tom
On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 11:30 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 4/24/23 03:18, Pete Turnbull via cctalk
wrote:
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/after-3-years-flying…
On 24/04/2023 06:45, ED SHARPE via cctalk
wrote:
Bad link Zane I get a weird screen from the
timeEd#
Delete the strange character after the last "/" and it will work:
As I understand the situation, Jody, Paul's sister, is the named
executor for Paul's assets. I've read that his instructions were to
sell off most of the assets and donate the proceeds to charity. In
other words, the LCM will be sold; whether or not it remains intact is a
decision made by the purchaser.
--Chuck
11:15 a.m.
On Tue, 25 Apr 2023, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:
Little old Billy G?
lol, like he gives a shit. He's too busy selling his snake oil and figuring
out ways to turn bugs and chemicals into your next meal.
I literally should have strangled him to death when I had the opportunity.
Naah.
Turn him into a millionaire!
Imagine what it would do to him to have his net worth become $1,000,000.
Although why would anybody need more than 640K?
6:03 a.m.
On Apr 25, 2023, at 2:16 AM, Tom Hunter via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Hopefully the LCM will be sold as a going concern rather than just a
firesale of the assets.
Otherwise a lot of donors and contributors would be rightfully upset - me
included.
I know of at least one donor who realized his mistake years ago, and wishes he had lent
his collection to the museum rather than donating it. That's not foolproof (a museum
may not exercise due care) but at least you don't have to worry about the museum, or
some heir, deciding to trash the stuff.
paul
6:18 a.m.
Let's see where this goes. I might need to do a forensic dump, fire up my NeXT and
find the letters and documents around ai.ai.mit.edu
Figured this would happen.
On April 25, 2023 3:03:02 PM GMT+02:00, Paul Koning via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Apr 25, 2023, at 2:16 AM, Tom Hunter via
cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Hopefully the LCM will be sold as a going concern rather than just a
firesale of the assets.
Otherwise a lot of donors and contributors would be rightfully upset - me
included.
I know of at least one donor who realized his mistake years ago, and wishes he had lent
his collection to the museum rather than donating it. That's not foolproof (a museum
may not exercise due care) but at least you don't have to worry about the museum, or
some heir, deciding to trash the stuff.
paul
8:55 a.m.
On Apr 25, 2023, at 06:03, Paul Koning via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Was lending ever an option with LCM? I loaned documents to an individual there but when I
was donating items to the museum itself I was told that they didn’t do loaning of items.
alan
On Apr 25, 2023, at 2:16 AM, Tom Hunter via
cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Hopefully the LCM will be sold as a going concern rather than just a
firesale of the assets.
Otherwise a lot of donors and contributors would be rightfully upset - me
included.
I know of at least one donor who realized his mistake years ago, and wishes he had lent
his collection to the museum rather than donating it. That's not foolproof (a museum
may not exercise due care) but at least you don't have to worry about the museum, or
some heir, deciding to trash the stuff.
9:24 a.m.
On Apr 25, 2023, at 11:55 AM, Alan Perry
<aperry(a)snowmoose.com> wrote:
Maybe, maybe not. But, given my own experience, I would have a "take it or leave
it" attitude with any museum. If you want it, you can have it as a long term loan,
but I don't care about your policies; you can't have it as a donation.
paul
On Apr 25, 2023, at 06:03, Paul Koning via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Was lending ever an option with LCM? I loaned documents to an individual there but when I
was donating items to the museum itself I was told that they didn’t do loaning of items.
On Apr 25, 2023, at 2:16 AM, Tom Hunter via
cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Hopefully the LCM will be sold as a going concern rather than just a
firesale of the assets.
Otherwise a lot of donors and contributors would be rightfully upset - me
included.
I know of at least one donor who realized his mistake years ago, and wishes he had lent
his collection to the museum rather than donating it. That's not foolproof (a museum
may not exercise due care) but at least you don't have to worry about the museum, or
some heir, deciding to trash the stuff. 
6:43 a.m.
On Tue, 25 Apr 2023, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote:
Hopefully the LCM will be sold as a going concern
rather than just a
firesale of the assets.
AFAIK, it's a 503(c), and I suspect if they started to
"fire sale" assets,
lawsuits from folks that made significant donations would be inbound.
I say we sell his sister for science experiments and use the proceeds to
re-open the museum.
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
6:50 a.m.
On Apr 25, 2023, at 9:43 AM, geneb via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Apr 2023, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote:
Maybe, but what grounds would there be for a suit? If you donate to the museum, the thing
becomes their property, to dispose of as they see fit. That is, unless you have a
contract that says otherwise -- and even so, you'd have to hope that a court would
enforce a contract. There is ample precedent of courts disregarding the plain English
text of contracts or trusts to permit museums to do things prohibited by the terms of
agreements with donors. A recent one (name forgotten) in Pennsylvania comes to mind.
paul
Hopefully the LCM will be sold as a going concern
rather than just a
firesale of the assets.
AFAIK, it's a 503(c), and I suspect if they started to
"fire sale" assets, lawsuits from folks that made significant donations would be
inbound. 
6:54 a.m.
Wasn’t his sister busy buying or selling a sports team and showed no interests in the
museum? Same for Gates. Busy explaining how ChatGPT is the best thing ever while all the
money spent for “saving the world” seems to have led to nothing.
Regards,
Tarek Hoteit
On Apr 25, 2023, at 6:50 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Apr 25, 2023, at 9:43 AM, geneb via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Maybe, but what grounds would there be for a suit? If you donate to the museum, the
thing becomes their property, to dispose of as they see fit. That is, unless you have a
contract that says otherwise -- and even so, you'd have to hope that a court would
enforce a contract. There is ample precedent of courts disregarding the plain English
text of contracts or trusts to permit museums to do things prohibited by the terms of
agreements with donors. A recent one (name forgotten) in Pennsylvania comes to mind.
paul
On Tue, 25 Apr 2023, Tom Hunter via cctalk
wrote:
Hopefully the LCM will be sold as a going concern rather than just a
firesale of the assets.
AFAIK, it's a 503(c), and I suspect if they started to
"fire sale" assets, lawsuits from folks that made significant donations would be
inbound. 
7:09 a.m.
I think museums these days are careful to make sure donations really are
that. Not, probably, because they see a sale in their future but because in
the event of commercial failure they don't want to have to execute
thousands of different disposal requirements.
On Tue, Apr 25, 2023 at 2:55 PM Tarek Hoteit via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Wasn’t his sister busy buying or selling a sports team
and showed no
interests in the museum? Same for Gates. Busy explaining how ChatGPT is the
best thing ever while all the money spent for “saving the world” seems to
have led to nothing.
Regards,
Tarek Hoteit
On Apr 25, 2023, at 6:50 AM, Paul Koning via
cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
> On Apr 25, 2023, at 9:43 AM, geneb via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 25 Apr 2023, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote:
>>
>> Hopefully the LCM will be sold as a going concern rather than just a
>> firesale of the assets.
> AFAIK, it's a 503(c), and I suspect if they started to "fire sale"
assets, lawsuits from folks that made significant donations would be
inbound.
Maybe, but what grounds would there be for a suit? If you donate to the
museum, the thing becomes their property, to dispose of as they see fit.
That is, unless you have a contract that says otherwise -- and even so,
you'd have to hope that a court would enforce a contract. There is ample
precedent of courts disregarding the plain English text of contracts or
trusts to permit museums to do things prohibited by the terms of agreements
with donors. A recent one (name forgotten) in Pennsylvania comes to mind.
paul
8:20 a.m.
On 4/25/23 06:54, Tarek Hoteit via cctalk wrote:
Wasn’t his sister busy buying or selling a sports team
and showed no interests in the museum? Same for Gates. Busy explaining how ChatGPT is the
best thing ever while all the money spent for “saving the world” seems to have led to
nothing.
Well, there's the Gates Archive--a real 501(c)3 organization dedicated
to preserving BillG's history.
Based on my contacts with them, they appear to be very top-heavy,
bean-counterish. I gave up trying to do business with them after yet
another layer of paperwork was required.
--Chuck
P.S. I don't use Windows.
8:24 a.m.
p.s. #2. Don’t use Windows either.
Regards,
Tarek Hoteit
On Apr 25, 2023, at 8:21 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 4/25/23 06:54, Tarek Hoteit via cctalk wrote:
Wasn’t his sister busy buying or selling a sports
team and showed no interests in the museum? Same for Gates. Busy explaining how ChatGPT is
the best thing ever while all the money spent for “saving the world” seems to have led to
nothing.
Well, there's the Gates Archive--a real 501(c)3 organization dedicated
to preserving BillG's history.
Based on my contacts with them, they appear to be very top-heavy,
bean-counterish. I gave up trying to do business with them after yet
another layer of paperwork was required.
--Chuck
P.S. I don't use Windows.
6:55 a.m.
Well there is an agreement that if paul ever got tired of ai, lost interest, and wanted to
get rid of it then I would show up with a U-Haul to pick it up off the dock.
All this has happened before, all this will happen again.
Digex, sandstorm, ftp, etc. Funny I thought it would end with Paul.
CZ
(My burden, I'm stuck with it)
On April 25, 2023 3:50:33 PM GMT+02:00, Paul Koning via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Apr 25, 2023, at 9:43 AM, geneb via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Apr 2023, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote:
Maybe, but what grounds would there be for a suit? If you donate to the museum, the thing
becomes their property, to dispose of as they see fit. That is, unless you have a
contract that says otherwise -- and even so, you'd have to hope that a court would
enforce a contract. There is ample precedent of courts disregarding the plain English
text of contracts or trusts to permit museums to do things prohibited by the terms of
agreements with donors. A recent one (name forgotten) in Pennsylvania comes to mind.
paul
Hopefully the LCM will be sold as a going concern
rather than just a
firesale of the assets.
AFAIK, it's a 503(c), and I suspect if they started to
"fire sale" assets, lawsuits from folks that made significant donations would be
inbound.
8:11 a.m.
On Apr 24, 2023, at 11:16 PM, Tom Hunter via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Hopefully the LCM will be sold as a going concern rather than just a
firesale of the assets.
Otherwise a lot of donors and contributors would be rightfully upset - me
included.
I’m already unhappy, and wishing I’d not donated to the museum.
Zane
8:17 a.m.
But Zane.... you seemed disenchanted with museums even before LCM closed... apparently
you wee not happy with LCM? Fill us in?
Sent from AOL on Android
On Tue, Apr 25, 2023 at 8:11 AM, Zane Healy via cctalk<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote: On Apr 24, 2023, at 11:16 PM, Tom Hunter via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
Hopefully the LCM will be sold as a going concern rather than just a
firesale of the assets.
Otherwise a lot of donors and contributors would be rightfully upset - me
included.
I’m already unhappy, and wishing I’d not donated to the museum.
Zane
8:24 a.m.
On Apr 25, 2023, at 11:17 AM, ED SHARPE via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
But Zane.... you seemed disenchanted with museums even before LCM closed... apparently
you wee not happy with LCM? Fill us in?
One oddity about LCM was that they seemed to be into non-disclosure agreements. It's
rather bizarre for a museum to recruit people for a technical advisory group to help them
with understanding old hardware, and then require them to sign an NDA for the privilege of
helping them.
paul
8:27 a.m.
One oddity about LCM was that they seemed to be into
non-disclosure
agreements. It's rather bizarre for a museum to recruit people for a
technical advisory group to help them with understanding old hardware,
and then require them to sign an NDA for the privilege of helping them.
paul
I assume with the immense wealth PA had that anyone and everyone connected
to him were sought out by people looking to try to pitch ideas, get
grants, try to sell thing things, etc. Maybe NDA helped reduce that noise
to the org.
- Ethan
9:23 a.m.
On Apr 25, 2023, at 11:27 AM, Ethan O'Toole
<ethan(a)757.org> wrote:
But an NDA wouldn't do any of that. And conversely, asking people who are
volunteering their expert historic knowledge to sign an NDA is rather insulting. Not to
mention legally questionable, because if applied strictly it would block those people from
conveying the knowledge they have to LCM!
paul
One oddity about LCM was that they seemed to be
into non-disclosure agreements. It's rather bizarre for a museum to recruit people
for a technical advisory group to help them with understanding old hardware, and then
require them to sign an NDA for the privilege of helping them.
paul
I assume with the immense wealth PA had that anyone and everyone connected to him were
sought out by people looking to try to pitch ideas, get grants, try to sell thing things,
etc. Maybe NDA helped reduce that noise to the org.
- Ethan
10:34 a.m.
I’m not sure what you’re referring to. Prior to Paul Allen’s death, I was mostly happy
with LCM. There is one box that I *REALLY* wish I hadn’t donated to LCM.
Zane
On Apr 25, 2023, at 8:17 AM, ED SHARPE
<couryhouse(a)aol.com> wrote:
But Zane.... you seemed disenchanted with museums even before LCM closed... apparently
you wee not happy with LCM? Fill us in?
Sent from AOL on Android
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.aol.mobile.aolapp>
On Tue, Apr 25, 2023 at 8:11 AM, Zane Healy via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Apr 24, 2023, at 11:16 PM, Tom Hunter via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
<mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote:
Hopefully the LCM will be sold as a going concern rather than just a
firesale of the assets.
Otherwise a lot of donors and contributors would be rightfully upset - me
included.
I’m already unhappy, and wishing I’d not donated to the museum.
Zane
11:36 a.m.
On 4/25/23 01:16, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote:
Hopefully the LCM will be sold as a going concern
rather than just a
firesale of the assets.
Otherwise a lot of donors and contributors would be rightfully upset - me
included.
I am disappointed that Bill Gates hasn't bought it already to continue
Paul's vision.
I guess Bill doesn't like old computers. Constant turnover
of newer machines sells a LOT of MS products.
Jon
24 Apr
24 Apr
9:20 a.m.
On Apr 24, 2023, at 3:18 AM, Pete Turnbull via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
On 24/04/2023 06:45, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote:
Thanks! I’m going to blame that on the latest MacOS version, as I’d tested that link.
:-(
Zane
Bad link Zane I get a weird screen from the
timeEd#
Delete the strange character after the last "/" and it will work:
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/after-3-years-flying…
--
Pete
Pete Turnbull
607
days inactive
609
days old
28 comments
15 participants
participants (15)
-
Adrian Godwin -
Alan Perry -
Christopher Zach -
Chuck Guzis -
ED SHARPE -
Ethan O'Toole -
Fred Cisin -
geneb -
Jon Elson -
Paul Koning -
Pete Turnbull -
Sellam Abraham -
Tarek Hoteit -
Tom Hunter -
Zane Healy