8 Apr
2024
8 Apr
'24
7:18 p.m.
I'm having bit of fun with my various CP/M systems but I ran into
what I see as an interesting problem. I got Turbo Pascal on two
systems. A TRS-80 model 4P running Montezuma Micro CP/M and a TRS-80
Model II running Pickles & Trout CP/M. I tried to compile the version
of Kermit written for CP/M using Turbo Pascal. On both systems it
runs out of memory and crashes in the same place. Surely the developers
would have noticed this. Anybody here have any experience with this?
bill
8 Apr
8 Apr
9 p.m.
On Mon, 8 Apr 2024, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:
I'm having bit of fun with my various CP/M
systems but I ran into
what I see as an interesting problem. I got Turbo Pascal on two
systems. A TRS-80 model 4P running Montezuma Micro CP/M and a TRS-80
Model II running Pickles & Trout CP/M. I tried to compile the version
of Kermit written for CP/M using Turbo Pascal. On both systems it
runs out of memory and crashes in the same place. Surely the
developers
would have noticed this. Anybody here have any experience with this?
Have you tried it with "CP/M PLUS"? (CP/M 3.0, which Radio Shack sold for
the model 4)
Does the Turbo Pascal run on those machines with trivial source file?
or subsets of the Kermit code?
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
9 Apr
9 Apr
12:19 a.m.
On 4/8/2024 5:00 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
On Mon, 8 Apr 2024, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:
Not yet. I don't have a 3.0 setup with a hard disk yet and I doubt
everything will fit on a floppy.
I'm having bit of fun with my various CP/M
systems but I ran into
what I see as an interesting problem. I got Turbo Pascal on two
systems. A TRS-80 model 4P running Montezuma Micro CP/M and a TRS-80
Model II running Pickles & Trout CP/M. I tried to compile the version
of Kermit written for CP/M using Turbo Pascal. On both systems it
runs out of memory and crashes in the same place. Surely the developers
would have noticed this. Anybody here have any experience with this?
Have you tried it with "CP/M PLUS"? (CP/M 3.0, which Radio Shack sold
for the model 4)
Does the Turbo Pascal run on those machines with trivial source file?
or subsets of the Kermit code?
Haven't tried any other programs yet as I really wanted Kermit but
none of the other CP/M Kermits work on these machines (at least not
so far) but the problem does appear to be that the program is just
to big.
I just can't believe none of he developers noticed or maybe that
was the point where they all gave up. :-)
bill
12:36 a.m.
> Does the Turbo Pascal run on those machines with
trivial source file?
> or subsets of the Kermit code?
On Mon, 8 Apr 2024, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:
Haven't tried any other programs yet as I really
wanted Kermit but
none of the other CP/M Kermits work on these machines (at least not
so far) but the problem does appear to be that the program is just
to big.
I just can't believe none of he developers noticed or maybe that
was the point where they all gave up. :-)
Well, there is still the issue of whether it is an incompatability of that
version of Turbo Pascal with your machines, . . .
Are you running with 128K?
On machines that support it, 128K does NOT give you a TPA ("Transient
Program Area") larger than 64K, but it does give it almost 64K.
I wonder how large the TPA is on DOS based CP/M emulators, . . . ?
. . . and, of course, is there somewhere, a pre-compiled version of Kermit
for TRS80 CP/M?
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
12:59 a.m.
Wow,
I agree that there is clearly an incompatibility - I wonder how? CP/M
should be CP/M... Just the BDOS changed for the individual machine
hardware.
One thought is the screen RAM may be an issue with overlaying.
I suspect that Borland didn't notice, as the TRS80 Model 4 was really late
in the 8 bit world, having been released in 1983. The IBM PC was released
in 1981, so I suspect that by the time somebody ran CP/M on a Model 4,
Borland had moved onto PC/MS-DOS.
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: doug(a)doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net
On Tue, 9 Apr 2024 at 10:36, Fred Cisin via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
> Does the
Turbo Pascal run on those machines with trivial source file?
> or subsets of the Kermit code?
On Mon, 8 Apr 2024, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:
Haven't tried any other programs yet as I
really wanted Kermit but
none of the other CP/M Kermits work on these machines (at least not
so far) but the problem does appear to be that the program is just
to big.
I just can't believe none of he developers noticed or maybe that
was the point where they all gave up. :-)
Well, there is still the issue of whether it is an incompatability of that
version of Turbo Pascal with your machines, . . .
Are you running with 128K?
On machines that support it, 128K does NOT give you a TPA ("Transient
Program Area") larger than 64K, but it does give it almost 64K.
I wonder how large the TPA is on DOS based CP/M emulators, . . . ?
. . . and, of course, is there somewhere, a pre-compiled version of Kermit
for TRS80 CP/M?
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
1:16 a.m.
You mentioned that the TRS-80(s) have hard disks. Perhaps the extra space taken by the
hard disk bios is the culprit. Maybe a floppy-only machine (with floppy only bios) is the
only way to compile it.
Will
Grownups never understand anything by themselves and it is tiresome for children to be
always and forever explaining things to them,
Antoine de Saint-Exupery in The Little Prince
3:47 a.m.
On Mon, 8 Apr 2024, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:
I just can't believe none of he developers noticed
or maybe that
was the point where they all gave up. :-)
Presumably, it worked on the machine that they were using.
Not everybody tests everything on all possible configurations.
SOME companies don't test anything on any configuration other than what
they are using.
For example, at Microsoft, if a programmer has a hardware problem, they
immediately replace the machine. Good working conditions. BUT, that
means that they have substantially less experience than we do with
problematic machines.
Hence, disasters, such as SMARTDRV originally defaulting to having write
cacheing ON, which gives data loss (blamed on other components!) EVERY
time there is an unrecovered disk error, OR the user turns off the machine
(normal practice for most users in the 1980s) before all the buffers are
flushed.
Proper testing would have found that before release.
Beta testers of Windows 3.11 who reported that problem were told, "You
have a HARDWARE problem. That's not our responsibility." Those who
suggested that the OS at least had a responsibility of reporting and
making graceful exit in such conditions were dropped from the Beta program
for all future products.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
8 Apr
8 Apr
9:17 p.m.
On Mon, Apr 8, 2024 at 2:19 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
I'm having bit of fun with my various CP/M
systems but I ran into
what I see as an interesting problem. I got Turbo Pascal on two
systems.
If it's an old version of TP that asks "Include error messages
(Y/N)?", did you try saying N?
9 Apr
9 Apr
12:11 a.m.
On 4/8/2024 5:17 PM, Gavin Scott via cctalk wrote:
On Mon, Apr 8, 2024 at 2:19 PM Bill Gunshannon via
cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Same error, one file further along.
bill
I'm having bit of fun with my various CP/M
systems but I ran into
what I see as an interesting problem. I got Turbo Pascal on two
systems.
If it's an old version of TP that asks "Include error messages
(Y/N)?", did you try saying N?
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8 comments
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