6 Jun
2023
6 Jun
'23
7:04 p.m.
On Tue, Jun 06, 2023 at 11:33:54AM -0700, Tom Gardner via cctalk wrote:
May I suggest compatibility is like pregnancy – you
either are or you are not.
Hyperion never purported to be PC-DOS compatible and as noted it wasn’t even offered as
generic MS-DOS compatible. Just because it runs PC-DOS 3.3 and some applications doesn’t
establish that it was PC-DOS compatible – meaning 100% compatible 😊
As we were painfully made aware when people tried to run comm programs
and they didn't work because we used the Z8530 to get dual serial ports.
Also Basic programs which thought they had a lot more memory to use
because part of the Basic was in ROM suddenly ran into our RAM based gwbasic.
In fact I worked on the graphics routines in our gwbasic and moving of
the basic into higher memory.
You are absolutely right. The people who designed the original hardware
were sure the market would go the same way with BIOS routines and people
wouldn't poke around at the direct hardware. We were very wrong.
Just before the end (for me anyway) we did a newer h/w
revision starting from scratch keeping it 100% compatible but
of course by then it was too late. I had very little to do with this project
but I believe it was sold to Commodore.
This was a long time ago...
The irony is, I never ended up with a Hyperion to take keep and the share
options ended up being worthless. I always tell the kids to take the money
as it is a sure thing but the share options are usually a crap shoot.
Hope this interests someone.
Tom
From: Santo Nucifora <santo.nucifora(a)gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2023 10:54 AM
To: t.gardner(a)computer.org; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: [cctalk] Re: First non-IBM PC-DOS Compatible PC
On Tue, Jun 6, 2023 at 1:23 PM Tom Gardner via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
<mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org> > wrote:
Thanks but I'm pretty sure the Hyperion was not PC-DOS compatible.
I don't want to get off-topic here but the Dynalogic Hyperion is MS-DOS compatible.
I do have one or two of them.
I have run up to MS-DOS 5.0 on it as well as the Hyperion branded MS-DOS 2.11. There are
some extra configuration commands in that particular version. I have only tried PC-DOS
3.3 on this but not other versions and it works okay. There are varying degrees of MS-DOS
compatibility. It is NOT one of the few early computers that ran a customized version of
MS-DOS 1.25 and could only run that. Those had horrible compatibility. Without those
specific boot disks, the computer will not run. I have an STM Personal computer that is
like this and I don't have the correct MS-DOS 1.25 for it to boot. It's a
paperweight without it, unfortunately.
Saying that, the Hyperion is not 100% MS-DOS compatible but it is relatively high.
Dynalogic used to have compatibility lists of out-of-the-box MS-DOS software that would
run without issues. You can see an example here:
https://vintagecomputer.ca/files/Dynalogic%20Hyperion/compatibility/Hyperio…
Now, if you stated, "100% PC-DOS compatible", then you would be accurate.
Santo
FWIW I remember as a PC clone user in the 1980s and into the 1990s acquiring machines
that only ran PC-DOS and only using PC-DOS up to and including at least version 5.
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: db <db(a)db.net <mailto:db@db.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2023 5:58 AM
To: t.gardner(a)computer.org <mailto:t.gardner@computer.org> ; General Discussion:
On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
<mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org> >
Cc: Tom Gardner <tom94022(a)comcast.net <mailto:tom94022@comcast.net> >
Subject: Re: [cctalk] First non-IBM PC-DOS Compatible PC
On Mon, Jun 05, 2023 at 10:28:26PM -0700, Tom Gardner via cctalk wrote:
FWIW I worked at a company here in Ottawa. Dynalogic. We produced a IBM look alike which
had a BIOS not copied from the original IBM PC.
In fact we used different UARTs and graphics card.
Although I was not on the Bios team Don Bailey was.
<http://www.sce.carleton.ca/faculty/bailey/bailey_bio.shtml>
http://www.sce.carleton.ca/faculty/bailey/bailey_bio.shtml
<https://museum.eecs.yorku.ca/collections/show/7>
https://museum.eecs.yorku.ca/collections/show/7
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Hi:
Doing some research for historical purposed no
litigation at all trying to identify the first legal PC-DOS compatible PC, legal in
the sense that it s BIOS was not a copy of an IBM BIOS. Eagle gets the honor of being
first MS-DOS compatible and getting sued for copying IBM s BIOS ??
The Compaq Portable which shipped in November
1982 is generally credited with the first legal MS-DOS compatible PC. AFAIK it could not
run PC-DOS and those applications which depended upon certain IBM BIOS commands would
fail.
The first legal BIOS is generally considered to
be from Phoenix which was announced in May 1984 and so far I have been unable to determine
its first system deployments. FWIW Wikipedia points to HP, Tandy and AT&T as some
time adopters of a Phoenix BIOS but my research so far is that Tandy s T1000 family
announced in October and November of 1984 was the first system to be PC-DOS compatible and
it did not use a Phoenix BIOS! Such PC-DOS compatible HP and AT&T systems were much
later and the Tandy BIOS was written by programmers of Tandon Corporation, the OEM
supplier of the first Tandy T1000s.
Can anyone identify a PC-DOS compatible PC
announced earlier than October 1984? Citations would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Tom