[cctalk] Re: Pragmatically [was: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)]

something can be BOTH a "personal computer" *AND* "industrial computer" (or whatever term you want to use) I use cooking oil to start my charcoal grill, that does not make it NOT be food. I use vinegar and baking soda (separately) to kill weeds, that does not stop them from being food. Old (purchased used) items are likely to be "collectors items". I have a pendulum time clock that prints up to 3 in and out times per day on time cards for up to a week. When new they where not purchased by individuals just to keep time in their homes, so that is an industrial collector's item. I have electrical insulators from old power poles. Nobody bought them new except maybe someone extending power deep onto their private property, and probably then they still hired a contractor who made the actual purchase, unless they were a current or retired power company power installer. So any collectors items, whether IBM 360 mainframes, early tube based computers, or recent super computers, purchased when made surplus by their industrial users, do NOT become redefined as "personal computers". Also, any hand made items, not produced, advertised, and sold are "specialized computers", not "personal computers" or "industrial computers". I think this includes the ESS switching computers produced by the Bell Telephone system (though I don't know the specs, if they were switching only, and did not handle directories with alpha data, that disqualifies them. if they didn't do directories, each central office must have had some kind of computer for that, i doubt they would have done anything but build their own, again, not sold to public in quantities, so a "specialized computer". aside: AFAIK, nobody has talked about having telephone network switching computers in their basement....any volunteers? I mean computers, not the circular relays, somebody had those in my college dorm and they used them to make a "time tunnel" of sequential blinking lights down the hallway. A computer, such as the original IBM PC can be BOTH a "personal computer" AND an "industrial computer". I remember that many said, when it came out, that the IBM PC was the first personal computer, because IBM's entry into the market made it legitimate, before that they were just nerd toys. I am surprised nobody here has promoted that. Probably IBM hatred? So, to set a line between a "industrial computer" and a "both kinds", I suggested a limit that 5% (or 10%) had to be sold to individuals out of household funds. And since companies purchased them by the truckload, I said each ORDER counts as one, so if 19 companies each order a lot of 1000 computers and 1 individual buys one, that makes the 5% threshold. But PDP/1s & PDP/8s were were at most purchased by the 10s, and far probably only by a handful of individuals so I doubt they would make the threshhold. I also suggested that another way would be to say if it was depreciated or expensed (counted off against income) it was industrial. Yes, some people played star wars AND used it in a home business for which they took it off their income. I wouldn't think that many, but could well be wrong. <pre>--Carey</pre>