On Jan 31, 2025, at 8:37 AM, David Wade via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 31/01/2025 11:56, ben via cctalk wrote:
> On 2025-01-31 4:25 a.m., Frank Leonhardt via cctalk wrote:
>
>> A couple of points you might like to consider, which you may already know but
stuff you've said above doesn't spell it out:
>>
>> RS232 is not serial - make yourself clear. Before RS232 the same data format was
used in current loop (often 20mA or 60mA).
>>
>> RS232 (AKA V.24) is only understandable when you realise it was connecting a
terminal (or later computer) to a modem. It's very specific, yet like most technology
has been subverted for other purposes. I've kept at last one full RS232 modem in my
loft (it was government surplus, and I used to to run a BBS in 1980). Things got weird
later, particularly with the Hayes Smartmodem, but modems were dumb devices. The lines
went straight through. There were two oscillators (for FM) and the appropriate one was
switched in by the TX line being high or low. Likewise the data separator looked for a
high or low tone and flipped RX between -12V and +12V. These were all individual boards!
Low speed modems are just analog devices that can pass any signal up to whatever the
design speed limit is. For example, a 103 modem is good up to 300 bps, but will happily
carry anything less. A 202 modem (see below) is designed for 1200 but also will work at
lower speeds, and has been used at 1260 bps.
Faster modems use signalling schemes that involve clocked signal elements. QPSK (for the
212 modem) is likely one of these, and for the speeds above that it is definitely true.
So there the modem isn't just an on/off signaling pass-through device.
I always wondered why one needed a 25 pin
connector?
Lets look at some of the other pins:-
RTS/CTS - Request to send/clear to send - Hardware flow control.
More accurately, for half duplex line control, as others have pointed out. On a half
duplex circuit the device (DTE) would assert RTS when it wanted to send, and when the
modem had decided to turn the line in that direction it would signal CTS to indicate the
device can send now. If the device was done, it would drop RTS; alternatively (I suppose)
the modem could drop CTS on its own initiative to rescind permission to use the line.
I once worked on devices that used asynchronous communication, half duplex, multipoint
(Harris 2200 display advertising editing terminals, used by newspaper). That was done
with DL-11/E devices, and the modem signaling I just described did the direction control.
It even worked most of the time, though I'm quite happy to have dealt with those
contraptions only once.
DTR/DSR - Is comms up and running
RI - Ring Indicator - a call has arrived
TCK/RCK - Used for timing on synchronous links so BI-SYNC/SDLC/HDLC
LL/RL - enable loop back...
There is also a secondary channel which can be used for out-of-band control...
Or for split-speed communication. Yes, by the time you have all that you're close to
using up 25 pins. Another consideration is that equipment at the time was much larger
than nowadays so the connector used was actually quite small for the time. Some other
modems used the V.35 standard (for high speeds) with a connector whose designation I
don't remember that's a whole lot bigger than the DB25.
An example of that is the not so well known Bell 202 modem. That uses FSK signaling like
the 103 modem but at higher speed, with a shift of (I think) 1000 Hz. Between that and
the data rate it ties up the entire voice channel one way, so if you wanted to use it in
full duplex mode you'd need four wires, rather than the standard Telco 2 wire circuit.
Alternatively you could use two wires half duplex. An example of the latter is the
original Ham radio "packet radio" system, which used 202 signaling carrying HDLC
frames. A standard 202 modem would do that just fine since it's a purely analog
device, but you need a separate clock recovery circuit.
Another place where 202 signaling is found is in the original PLATO IV terminal
commmications system. That is 1200 bps (or more precisely 1260 which works too) outbound
to the terminal, and something slow (126 bps) the other way. When carried over a modem
that would use the "1200" baud regular channel of the 202 outbound, and the
secondary channel inbound. There's enough bandwidth in the phone line to tuck away an
FSK band slice for that slow speed in what's left over from the 1200 bps channel the
other way.
Now every
thing seems to be just 3 wire TTL.
Lots of thinks need hardware handshake...
Before RS232, how many wires where needed for the
current loop
So RS232 was designed for modems, so audio tones on a phone line. So:-
Computer <= RS232=> Modem <= audio on phone line => Modem <=RS232=>
Terminal.
Confusingly both the computer and terminal are called "Data Terminal Equipment"
(DTE) and the modems are data communications equipment or DCE,
Current Loop was a physical connection, no modem, so just 2-wires for half-duplex,
4-wires for full duplex. For long lines you can use polar relays..
I think polar relays go all the way back to telegraph line practice, perhaps because they
improve noise immunity. The current loop serial devices I have used are all on/off
keying, though. Those were ASCII (Teletype model 33 and some early 300 bps terminals)
which use 20 mA loops. Earlier Baudot devices like the Model 19 use 60 mA loops, at data
rates around 45 bps with 5-bit coding. I assume newspaper wire service lines (6 bit code)
were current loop too but I don't think I ever saw the details.
FWIW, another place where you find current loop systems is in industrial control and
sensing systems. Those tend to be analog, described as "4-20 mA loop" -- for
example, a temperature sensor can do this, encoding whatever its temperature range is into
a current between 4 and 20 mA.
The idea behind current loops is that mechanical teleprinters are severely inductive loads
-- basically you're driving an electromagnet. To get decent waveforms the system
impedance should be mostly resistive (i.e., moderate phase shift). So you construct the
circuit with a large series resistor and a supply voltage chosen to get the current you
want.
And yes, the other advantage is that you can go farther by increasing the drive voltage,
if the distance is large enough that wire resistance, or circuit inductance, is
significant. I remember our college timesharing system using current loop terminal runs
halfway across campus, well over 1000 feet. One of those was for a Beehive editing
terminal which was certainly 300 bps and maybe faster.
paul