9 May
2024
9 May
'24
7:39 a.m.
Without doing the research before asking, there was the UCSD p-System
Pascal for IBM PC which came out very early in the history of the IBM PC.
It was not very popular. The SAGE II that had native Pascal (68000) was
not a popular machine. Waterloo Pascal on the SuperPet....Pascal never
really made it on the microcomputer platform did it?
Bill
On Thu, May 9, 2024, 2:07 AM david barto via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
At Ken Bowles retirement from UCSD (Ken was the lead
of the UCSD Pascal
Project) he related a story that IBM came to UCSD after being ‘rejected’ by
DR to see if the Regents of the University would license UCSD Pascal (the
OS and the language) to IBM for release on the new hardware IBM was
developing. The UC Regents said ’no’.
He was quite sad that history took the very different course.
David
On May 3, 2024, at 6:30 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
PL/M (think "PL/1") was a high level programming language for
microprocessors.
CP/M was also briefly called "Control Program and Monitor"
It was written by Gary Kildall. (May 19, 1942 - july 11, 1994)
Gary taught at Navy Postgraduate School in Monterey.
He took a break in 1972, to complete his PhD at University of Washington.
He wrote 8008 and 8080 instruction set simulators for Intel, and they
loaned him hardware.
In 1973? he wrote CP/M.
He offered it to Intel, but they didn't want it, although they marketed
the PL/M.
He and his wife started "Intergalactic Digital Research" in Pacific
Grove. Later renamed "Digital Research, Inc."
CP/M rapidly became a defacto standard as operating system for 8080 and
later Z80 computers.
In the late 1970s, when CP/M computers were available with 5.25" drives,
and there were hundreds, soon thousands of different formats, I chatted
with Gary, and pleaded with him ot create a "standard" format for 5.25".
His response was a very polite, "The
standard format for CP/M is 8 inch
single sided single density."
I pointed out that formats were proliferating
excessively.
His response was a very polite, "I understand. Sorry, but the standard
format for CP/M is 8 inch single sided single density."
In 1980? IBM was developing a personal computer. (y'all have heard of
it) One of the IBM people had a Microsoft Softcard (Z80 plus CP/M) in his
Apple. IBM went to Microsoft, to negotiate BASIC for the new machine, and
CP/M.
Bill Gates explained and sent them to Digital Research.
When the IBM representatives arrived, Gary was flying his plane up to
Oakland to visit Bill Godbout. He hadn't seen a need to be present, and
assumed that Dorothy would take care of the [presumably completely routine]
paperwork. While visiting Bill godbout, and delivering some software was
important, it WAS something that a low level courier could have done.
There was a little bit of a culture clash.
The IBM people were all in identical blue suits.
The DR people were in sandals, barefoot, shorts, t-shirts, braless
women, with bicycles, surfboard, plants and even cats in the office,
The IBM people demanded a signed non=disclosure ageement before talking.
Dorothy Kildall refused.
When Dorothy got Gary on the phone, it is unreliably reported that he
said, "well, let them sit on the couch and wait their turn like the rest of
the customers."
It is also been said that DR people upstairs saw the IBM people marching
up, and thought that it was a drug raid. I have stood in that bay window
overlooking the front door, and can believe that.
IBM chose to not do business with DR and went back to Microsoft.
When billg was unable to convince them that Microsoft was not in the
operating system business, Microsoft went into the operating system
business. They bought an unlimited license to QDOS (Tim Paterson's work at
Seattle Computer Products). They also hired Tim Paterson.
DR was working on CP/M-86, but it was a ways off.
Paterson had written QDOS ("Quick and Dirty Operating System") as a
placeholder to be able to continue development while waiting for CP/M-86
We've mentioned before, that Tim Paterson got
the idea for the directory
structure from Microsoft Standalone BASIC. As Chuck pointed out, that was
not a new invention, merely a choice of which way to do it.
billg knew how to deal with officious managers. It is unreliably said
that he told the Microsoft people, "Everybody who does not own a suit, stay
home tomorrow!"
IBM insisted that Micorsoft beef up security. window shades, locks on
doors that normally weren't, locks on file cabinets, etc.
It is unreliably said that to throw off anyboy
who heard about it, that
Microsoft referred to the IBm project as "Project Commodore"
dr continued to sell CP/M.
When the 5150/:PC was ready, IBM announced it with PC-DOS, which was a
renaming of MS-DOS,renaming 86-DOS, renaming QDOS.
If I recall correctly theprice was $40 (or maybe $60?)
DR pointed out that NS-DOS was extremely similar to CP/M.
https://www.cs.drexel.edu/~johnsojr/2012-13/fall/cs370/resources/An%20Insid…
IBM didn't consider it a problem, andsimply
offered to ALSO sell
CP/M-86, particularly since they were already also marketing UCSD P-System.
CP/M-86 was not available yet, so everybody buying a disk based PC
bought PC-DOS.
But, most of us assumed thata CP/M-86 would
become the standard once it
came out, and PC-DOS was similar and let us use the machines while waiting.
CP/M-86 took a long time to come out (6 months is a LONG time in such
things).
When it did, the price was $240.
There are disagreemnets about whether DR or IBM had set the price point.
Most decided to keep using Pc-DOs until CP/M-86 had caught on.
But with the price differential, and the lead, PC-DOS remained the
standard.
dr continued, came out with MP/M-86, and eventually came out with
"Concurrent DOS", and "DR-DOS", which was based on MS-DOS.
Microsoft could not fault somebody for copying
them, when it was the
ones that they had copied.
No, Microsoft could certainly not claim trademark
status for "DOS"!
In fact, although Microsoft trademarkd "MS-DOS", IBM did NOT trademark
PC-DOS, saying that it just meant Personal Compter Disk Operating System,
which is a description, not a unique name. In 1987, I visited the Patent
and Trademark Office outside of Washington, DC, and personally confirmed
that in their stacks.
Many people have said that blowing off IBM was the stupidest move in the
history of stupid moves.
Other people insist that blowing off IBM was the
BRAVEST move in history.
A lot of people gave Gary flack about it.
eventually, he bagan drinking.
On July 8, 1994, Gary fell and hit his head. It is unclear whether that
was during an altercation. (A lot of people fall during bar brawls) It
was at the Franklin Street biker Bar & Grill, Investigation as a potential
homicide was inconclusive.
About 10 years ago, I was in Pacific Grove, and visited the DR house on
Lighthouse street. An extremely hospitable fellow had recently bought it
in a foreclosure sale. At the time that he bought it, he was unaware of
the historical significance. He let me wander through the whole place,
looking out the upstairs window at the walkway, etc.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com