[cctalk] Re: Try Algol 68 on Windows

On Mon, Jan 13, 2025 at 01:57:44PM -0700, ben via cctalk wrote: [...] It's likely to be the same reasons why C never really became a thing on typical microcomputers of the era, although the specifics vary by architecture: The popular 8-bit CPUs such as the 6502 and 8080/Z80 lack useful base-plus-index addressing modes. These are useful for accessing function parameters and local variables on the stack, and for extracting fields from a structure. The 6502 doesn't have these modes *at all* and requires explicit futzing around to compute the effective address, whereas the Z80 does have IX/IY-relative operations, but they are both very slow to use and only support fixed offsets so if the index is variable, manual address calculation like on the 6502 is required. Real-world code for these CPUs tended to use hardwired (i.e. static/global) addresses, and/or used a virtual machine (with a BASIC interpreter being an extreme case) which was more capable than the base CPU. The 6800/6809 and the 65802/65816 are somewhat better on this front, but they were either too expensive or too late to be relevant. You might as well just get a 16-bit system instead. As to the 16-bits, the 8086/80286 had segmentation and so did bang up against a 64kiB address space because once again there was a lot of futzing around with segment registers to access more memory than that. They were barely any better than an 8-bit system with bank switching. Realistically, they are still basically 8-bit CPUs with 16-bit busses. The other popular 16-bit CPU was the 68000, which what with its PDP-11 heritage, couldn't fail to be a good C target. A fair chunk of AmigaOS was written in C, for example. But one could argue that it's actually a 32-bit CPU with a 16-bit bus. C was still not terribly popular on these machines, but that'll be because C compilers cost as much as the machine itself, and generated *much* worse code than handwritten assembler. So the only customers were businesses for whom time-to-market was more important than the cost of tools or the performance of the end product. The converse argument is that the developer has to guesstimate the appropriate size for a static array, which may turn out to be the wrong size at run time. Making it larger than required wastes space, and smaller than required results in buffer overruns and data corruption.