- cctalk - classiccmp.org

by Henry Bent

Not my listing, but I thought I would pass it on in case others were interested. https://nextdoor.com/for_sale_and_free/954bf8cc-66d6-4f41-a447-9c6aaae42ea3… -Henry

1 year, 4 months

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Why I am not worried about AI taking over the world!

by Bill Gunshannon

So, I am working on another fun project on my trusty old TRS-80's. I need the ability to do multi-line functions which TRS-80 BASIC does not support. But in hopes of finding something where someone added that capability in the distant past (there were lots of features added by various people over time) I decided to just try a Google Search. As we all know Google now begins results with an AI generated answer to your question. This is what I got: -------------------------------------------------------------------------- In TRS-80 BASIC, you can create multi-line functions (subroutines) using the DEF FN statement, allowing you to define a function that can perform a specific task and be called from different parts of your program. Here's how it works: DEF FN Statement: You use the DEF FN statement to define a function, followed by the function name (e.g., FNMyFunction), a set of parentheses for any arguments, and then the code that the function will execute. Example: 10 DEF FNC(X,Y) = X*X + Y*Y defines a function named FNC that takes two arguments (X and Y) and returns the sum of their squares. Function Call: To use the function, you simply call it by its name, passing in the necessary arguments. Example: 20 PRINT FNC(3,4) would print the value returned by the FNC function when called with arguments 3 and 4, which is 25. Multi-line Functions: You can extend the DEF FN statement to span multiple lines, allowing for more complex logic within the function. Example: Code 10 DEF FNC(X,Y) 20 LET TEMP = X * X 30 LET TEMP = TEMP + Y * Y 40 DEF FN END 50 PRINT FNC(3,4) This example defines a function that calculates the sum of squares of two numbers, but the calculation is broken down into multiple lines for readability. Key Points: Line Numbers: TRS-80 BASIC relies on line numbers, so make sure to use them appropriately when defining multi-line functions. Function Name: Function names must start with FN followed by a valid identifier (e.g., FNC, FNMyFunction). DEF FN END: You need to use DEF FN END to mark the end of the function definition, especially when using multi-line functions. Scope: Functions are defined within the scope of the program and are accessible from anywhere in the program. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Which is both wrong and totally absurd. And I see things all the time about letting AI write your code for you. Does anyone actually trust AI to write code? bill

1 year, 4 months

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Re: Philips P3800 key lock swtch

by donald donaldwhittemore.com

Lishi tools can decode the bitting. Surprised the locksmith did not use them. Just need to identify the keyway style. https://covertinstruments.com/collections/lishi-tools

1 year, 4 months

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Re: Altair BASIC Source Code released

by Alan Frisbie

Bob Grabau <rgrabau1(a)verizon.net> write: > As my memory serves, there was a class given by the Southern > California Computer Society (SCCS) in which the disassembled the > Altair Basic (not sure if it was the 4k or 8k version) and used the > output of that disassembly for the class. There was a guy who had the > complete annotated (by the class) of the source as printed out copies > in his trunk, which he just handed out to anyone that asked for it. > This was somewhere between 1975-1978 (76-77 most likely) when I was a > member of SCCS. I was part of that disassembly effort and remember it well! I'm pretty sure I still have my copy of it stashed away here. It was a lot of fun. I had been a very early (1974) user of the 8080 at NCR, and this gave me a chance to contribute to the knowledge base. One thing I intend to do with this listing is find a piece of code I worked to disassemble, and read the comments. As I recall, it was part of some error handling. It consisted of a string of three-byte instructions that did nothing important, but if you jumped into the second byte of one, it would (as I recall) act as a two-byte instruction and load a register with an error code. After executing that 2/3 instruction, it fell into the remaining string of three-byte instructions which did nothing of interest. At the end, it would take the value that had been loaded earlier and use it. I was simultaneously impressed and appalled by this space-saving coding technique. I'm disappointed that two printer pages are combined into a single PDF page, as it makes it a bit difficult to read. Still, it is a great window into the minds of Bill, Paul, and Monte. Alan Frisbie

1 year, 4 months

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Re: Why I am not worried about AI taking over the world!

by John Foust

"Ancient BASIC dialects" seems like a rather small obscure domain and as they say, they're not making any more of them. I'd think that if you trained an AI on enough examples, they'd do much better. The BASIC language isn't that complex compared to modern languages where people are finding AI as a useful assistant, like it or not. Think of it like old-school "pair programming" that gives you a friend in your cube to talk to. - John

1 year, 4 months

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DCK11 doc

by dstalkowski＠ody.ca

I have a scan of the following: LSI-11 BUS INTERFAE CHIPKIT/PROGRAM CONTROL DCK11-AA,-AC October, 1977 Phil Champaigne Logic Products MR2-2/X6645 If someone is interested in a copy, preferably someone who can host it, please contact me. don

1 year, 4 months

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Re: DEC Unibus variants

by shadoooo

The why not use a UniBone comment has merit, what will your (FPGA) > implementation add ? > Well, I know the Unibone! Surely is a very capable system for emulation of older hardware and interfaces. Also performances are good as far as I understand (I don't have one). I have the idea of extending the concept of Unibone. The new design shall be modular, composed by: - a main board hosting the SoM and common interfaces (Ethernet, SD, USB, console) - a bus module for specific bus / machine: support could be added for DEC / Data General / other? - an interchangeable interface module for an hardware device (SMD, Pertec, floppy, RX1/2, RL01/02, other). Any kind of interface could be supported, also for example ADC, DAC, maybe video to some limits...) If you have main module and bus module, you have a similar solution to Unibone / Qbone. However if you need to change bus type, you need to swap only the bus adapter (cheaper). If you have main and interfaces modules, you can control physical devices directly, and do anything with it. For example, you can dump / restore the content of a SMD disk at bit level, no need to know the controller format, etc. Similar to Kyroflux for floppy, but MUCH faster! Alternatively, you could also emulate the device at low level (for example a generic SMD disk). If you have a set of main, bus and interface modules, you can do anything as above, plus you can emulate a controller for a specific machine for a specific device. That said, implementing "anything" would be an infinite effort, but the platform is flexible, so support could be added step-by-step. So why an FPGA? A programmable logic can implement a true digital circuit, where the PRUs in the BeagleBone are processors. This means that in an FPGA the time is always precisely determined by a clock, in PRUs it is affected by the software execution. This means that a PRU can work quite well on an asynchronous bus, provided that sample rate is sufficient, even if not constant. But for a fast synchronous interface, i.e. when time is determined by an external clock, often embedded with data, no software approach can work steadily in my opinion. One thing is true: programming an FPGA is designing a netlist, not developing a software. It can be very hard to debug sometimes, because the approach is more similar to repairing an old board with a Logic Analyzer than perform debugging in software: it's a circuit in a chip, there no step-by-step execution! Nevertheless: I'm a quite good electronic engineer, highly experienced with digital logic and FPGA, so the hardware design wouldn't be a problem. Just a matter of time. Nowadays a SoM with a smaller AMD Zynq7010/7020 (a system-on-chip including an FPGA, plus dual core CPU, lot of peripherals) doesn't cost a lot, and have a great usage flexibility. Also brute computing power is superior to older BB. Why not try? I'm open to your comments. As for the UNIBUS unobtainable transceivers: I think the best solution is to use AM26S10 for drivers, and an LVC logic powered at 3.3v for receivers. Both are active parts costing nuts. I would try this approach. Andrea

1 year, 4 months

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DEC Unibus variants

by shadoooo

Hello, I'm searching information about all existing variants of DEC Unibus in Dual/Quad/Hex flavors. I read the "UnibusSpec1979.pdf" on bitsavers, which reports a "Standard Unibus" pinout in the last pages. However in several backplanes "Small Peripheral Controller", "Modified Unibus Device" and "Extended Unibus" are supported. Maybe also other unlisted Unibus variants do exist (e.g VAX 11/730)? I also found the gunkies.org WIKI very helpful, however it is still quite difficult to compare the pinout differences (dummy proof). Where could I find a specific DEC documentation about the more recent variants, similar to the 1979 specs, but referred to SPC, MUD, EUB, ect? Big doubts: - why DEC, having defined the dual Standard pinout, had then to implement the quad SPC backplanes? - why DEC, having defined quad backplanes, had then to implement the hex (standard + SPC) or (MUD + SPC) or EUB? I mean: given that in AB all Unibus signals are present (from specifications), what is the need for CDEF? Provided that several signals are duplicated in hex pinout, the backplane will connect homologue signals together, or AB bus will always be separated from CDEF bus? My aim is to design a reprogrammable digital logic board which could be employed in any system, using 18bits address or also 22bits (i.e. for 11/24). Thanks Andrea

1 year, 4 months

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Re: Wanted : Philips PSU-B3 (or -B4?) power supply for the P3800

by Fred Jan Kraan

Tony Duell wrote: > I am working on a Philips P3800 computer, about 40 years old. It's a > multiprocessor Turbodos machine, a mix of Z80's and 80186's There is some P3500/3800 documentation online, including power supplies (Netzteile) at: https://electrickery.nl/comp/divcomp/doc/index.html Not exactly what you asked for, but related. Fred Jan

1 year, 4 months

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Wanted : Philips PSU-B3 (or -B4?) power supply for the P3800

by Tony Duell

I am working on a Philips P3800 computer, about 40 years old. It's a multiprocessor Turbodos machine, a mix of Z80's and 80186's The main problem is that I only have half the power supply. I have the PSU-M3 battery-backed memory supply, but not the logic supply. This I believe to be a PSU-B3 module, although from the circuit diagrams I have, I think a PSU-B4 would work. Outputs are +5V, +12V, -12V, +24V and maybe -5V. There's also remote on/off control, so it's not trivial to use a different power supply The base board is a 233*160mm double eurocard wth a 96 pin 0.1" pitch DIN41612 connector for the outputs and a 32 pin 0.2" pitch DIN41612 connector for the mains input. There is probably another board stacked on top of it (connected only to the baseboard, not to the backplane) and there may be a metal plate on top of the lot. Please let me know if you have any idea where to find one. -tony

1 year, 4 months

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