***SPAM*** cctalk Digest, Vol 82, Issue 16
cctalk-request at classiccmp.org
cctalk-request at classiccmp.org
Wed Jul 21 12:00:00 CDT 2021
Send cctalk mailing list submissions to
cctalk at classiccmp.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
cctalk-request at classiccmp.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
cctalk-owner at classiccmp.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of cctalk digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Compaq Deskpro boards/hard drives from the late 1990s
(Kevin Anderson)
2. Re: Compaq Deskpro boards/hard drives from the late 1990s
(Bill Degnan)
3. Re: Compaq Deskpro boards/hard drives from the late 1990s
(Chris Zach)
4. Re: Compaq Deskpro boards/hard drives from the late 1990s
(Grant Taylor)
5. Re: core matt repair (pspan)
6. WANTED: IBM 360 operators panel (Barry Hills)
7. Re: Items Wanted (Jay Jaeger)
8. Re: Re: DEC PDP-8/e H212 core mat repair (Richard Milward)
9. IBM 1410 Processor Operating System Compiler Status Report
(Jay Jaeger)
10. Re: Items Wanted (Josh Dersch)
11. Re: Items Wanted (Jay Jaeger)
12. Re: core matt repair (Jules Richardson)
13. Re: core matt repair (Brent Hilpert)
14. Re: core matt repair (jos)
15. Re: core matt repair (jim stephens)
16. Re: Compaq Deskpro boards/hard drives from the late 1990s
(Liam Proven)
17. Re: Compaq Deskpro boards/hard drives from the late 1990s
(Jules Richardson)
18. Re: core matt repair (John Foust)
19. Re: core matt repair (Paul Koning)
20. Re: core matt repair (Paul Koning)
21. Re: Compaq Deskpro boards/hard drives from the late 1990s
(Peter Corlett)
22. Re: core matt repair (Tom Hunter)
23. Re: Compaq Deskpro boards/hard drives from the late 1990s
(Liam Proven)
24. Re: core matt repair (jos)
25. Re: Compaq Deskpro boards/hard drives from the late 1990s
(Grant Taylor)
26. Re: Compaq Deskpro boards/hard drives from the late 1990s
(Chuck Guzis)
27. Re: Compaq Deskpro boards/hard drives from the late 1990s
(Paul Koning)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 18:11:15 +0000 (UTC)
From: Kevin Anderson <kevin_anderson_dbq at yahoo.com>
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Compaq Deskpro boards/hard drives from the late 1990s
Message-ID: <1195245304.1026722.1626804675460 at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
For a time I had quite a few Compaq Deskpro towers that had acquired (for free) from my employer after they updated to a newer HP Compaq model. These Compaq Deskpros were the white-boxed variety with Pentium III the like processors that date to the later part of the 1990s and into the 2000s. They interested me because they were able to work with the flavors of Linux that were becoming plentiful and useful at the time (like Mandrake, etc.) Anyway, the desktops themselves are gone, as well as the PC keyboards and the monitors that went with them, with this paragraph just setting the scene....
But at the same time I also acquired (pulled) from these same computers and their siblings a whole bunch of wired Ethernet network cards, one or two video cards, a whole bunch of the IDE/PATA 5.25-inch desktop CD drives, and a whole bunch(!) of 10- and 20-GByte IDE/PATA 5.25-inch desktop hard drives. I believe the vintage makes them all PCI cards for the network and video cards. For some reason I must have had it in my head that I would all need these extra cards (and more) to keep these boxes (and other desktops) going into the future when the apocalypse came <grin> !
Now I have no need for any of these parts. I don't want to chuck them to a recycler either, but it is tempting just to get the stuff out of the house (as I need to seriously downsize prior to retirement).
Is there a market for any of this that is worth pursing, or is this all too generic and plentiful to worry about? Giving shipping and that, I am not sure how much of this I'd care to deal with this through resale (eBay or privately) versus just dropping it all at the electronics recycling shop (which fortunately I have locally).
Just starting to sort this out...I've been meaning to send this e-mail for awhile now. Your collective thoughts? I know most of this is too new for most of your interests...
Kevin Anderson, Dubuque, Iowa
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 14:20:43 -0400
From: Bill Degnan <billdegnan at gmail.com>
To: Kevin Anderson <kevin_anderson_dbq at yahoo.com>, "General
Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Compaq Deskpro boards/hard drives from the late 1990s
Message-ID:
<CABGJBue=4siOhVVgSY1Qrgf1EFzZNndHnqXiKX34jfZ2BBqcGQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
If you're looking to donate, Kennett Classic can use these to support
what's in our "post vintage" room (goes up to 1997)
Bill
On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 2:11 PM Kevin Anderson via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> For a time I had quite a few Compaq Deskpro towers that had acquired (for
> free) from my employer after they updated to a newer HP Compaq model.
> These Compaq Deskpros were the white-boxed variety with Pentium III the
> like processors that date to the later part of the 1990s and into the
> 2000s. They interested me because they were able to work with the flavors
> of Linux that were becoming plentiful and useful at the time (like
> Mandrake, etc.) Anyway, the desktops themselves are gone, as well as the PC
> keyboards and the monitors that went with them, with this paragraph just
> setting the scene....
>
> But at the same time I also acquired (pulled) from these same computers
> and their siblings a whole bunch of wired Ethernet network cards, one or
> two video cards, a whole bunch of the IDE/PATA 5.25-inch desktop CD drives,
> and a whole bunch(!) of 10- and 20-GByte IDE/PATA 5.25-inch desktop hard
> drives. I believe the vintage makes them all PCI cards for the network and
> video cards. For some reason I must have had it in my head that I would all
> need these extra cards (and more) to keep these boxes (and other desktops)
> going into the future when the apocalypse came <grin> !
>
> Now I have no need for any of these parts. I don't want to chuck them to a
> recycler either, but it is tempting just to get the stuff out of the house
> (as I need to seriously downsize prior to retirement).
>
> Is there a market for any of this that is worth pursing, or is this all
> too generic and plentiful to worry about? Giving shipping and that, I am
> not sure how much of this I'd care to deal with this through resale (eBay
> or privately) versus just dropping it all at the electronics recycling shop
> (which fortunately I have locally).
>
> Just starting to sort this out...I've been meaning to send this e-mail for
> awhile now. Your collective thoughts? I know most of this is too new for
> most of your interests...
>
> Kevin Anderson, Dubuque, Iowa
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 14:36:38 -0400
From: Chris Zach <cz at alembic.crystel.com>
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Compaq Deskpro boards/hard drives from the late 1990s
Message-ID: <7d0e22c3-d3dd-b49f-526b-3e49673a91be at alembic.crystel.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Indeed, those are nice systems. Some of them were a bit daffy (the
Prosignia Pentium 120's were odd) but I still have an XE4100 that I run
NextStep on. The integrated video was great....
I do however miss my Deskpro/2000. Dual Pentium Pro and by the end I had
dual PODP chips running in it with I think 2-4 gb of memory. That system
was impressive....
C
On 7/20/2021 2:20 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:
> If you're looking to donate, Kennett Classic can use these to support
> what's in our "post vintage" room (goes up to 1997)
> Bill
>
> On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 2:11 PM Kevin Anderson via cctalk <
> cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
>> For a time I had quite a few Compaq Deskpro towers that had acquired (for
>> free) from my employer after they updated to a newer HP Compaq model.
>> These Compaq Deskpros were the white-boxed variety with Pentium III the
>> like processors that date to the later part of the 1990s and into the
>> 2000s. They interested me because they were able to work with the flavors
>> of Linux that were becoming plentiful and useful at the time (like
>> Mandrake, etc.) Anyway, the desktops themselves are gone, as well as the PC
>> keyboards and the monitors that went with them, with this paragraph just
>> setting the scene....
>>
>> But at the same time I also acquired (pulled) from these same computers
>> and their siblings a whole bunch of wired Ethernet network cards, one or
>> two video cards, a whole bunch of the IDE/PATA 5.25-inch desktop CD drives,
>> and a whole bunch(!) of 10- and 20-GByte IDE/PATA 5.25-inch desktop hard
>> drives. I believe the vintage makes them all PCI cards for the network and
>> video cards. For some reason I must have had it in my head that I would all
>> need these extra cards (and more) to keep these boxes (and other desktops)
>> going into the future when the apocalypse came <grin> !
>>
>> Now I have no need for any of these parts. I don't want to chuck them to a
>> recycler either, but it is tempting just to get the stuff out of the house
>> (as I need to seriously downsize prior to retirement).
>>
>> Is there a market for any of this that is worth pursing, or is this all
>> too generic and plentiful to worry about? Giving shipping and that, I am
>> not sure how much of this I'd care to deal with this through resale (eBay
>> or privately) versus just dropping it all at the electronics recycling shop
>> (which fortunately I have locally).
>>
>> Just starting to sort this out...I've been meaning to send this e-mail for
>> awhile now. Your collective thoughts? I know most of this is too new for
>> most of your interests...
>>
>> Kevin Anderson, Dubuque, Iowa
>>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 12:44:05 -0600
From: Grant Taylor <cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net>
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Compaq Deskpro boards/hard drives from the late 1990s
Message-ID:
<f7827595-a82a-20a2-9579-e8c3f4aa059b at spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
On 7/20/21 12:11 PM, Kevin Anderson via cctalk wrote:
> Is there a market for any of this that is worth pursing, or is this all
> too generic and plentiful to worry about? Giving shipping and that, I
> am not sure how much of this I'd care to deal with this through resale
> (eBay or privately) versus just dropping it all at the electronics
> recycling shop (which fortunately I have locally).
I think there is a market for this hardware. I don't know how big it is.
I don't need any of it any more than I need a hole in the head. But
that being said, the collector (as in acquisitions) in me is interested
to know how much it might be to ship the lot. But on the other hand I
don't want to deny people who have an actual need for them.
I suspect that the video cards and the hard drives are probably the more
valuable parts. For a given value.
/If/ I had such a stash and wanted to get rid of it, I'd inventory what
I had and make it available for others to raise their hand if they are
interested. I think that the drives would be worth more if they had
been tested and you know that they work. E.g. run SpinRite level 4
against them.
3.3 and / or 5.0 volt PCI may also make a difference for some people.
I definitely think there is a market. And that if you (or someone) is
willing to put in a little effort, I'd expect that each of the
components could move for $5-$25 (or maybe even more) plush S&H. But
that's a time investment to get anything out of them and it sounds like
the real value in them to you is the space they are occupying / will be
vacating.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 12:13:42 -0500
From: pspan <pspan at amerytel.net>
To: cctech at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: core matt repair
Message-ID: <4623e365868d6e59c3a994d4cc6e6a8c at amerytel.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
I worked at a company called DMA located in Amery Wisconsin during the
80's and 90's that did do core mat repair. Yes, the gal that did the
work used a scope. She replaced cores and wires. Good luck finding
someone to do that work now. If I remember the process, first the mat
was removed from the driver assembly, then the varnish was removed. Then
the mat was repaired and revarnished and then reassembled and final test
before returned to the customer.
On 2021-07-20 12:00, cctech-request at classiccmp.org wrote:
> Send cctech mailing list submissions to
> cctech at classiccmp.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> cctech-request at classiccmp.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> cctech-owner at classiccmp.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of cctech digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: DEC PDP-8/e H212 core mat repair (steven at malikoff.com)
> 2. Re: DEC PDP-8/e H212 core mat repair (Joshua Rice)
> 3. Re: DEC PDP-8/e H212 core mat repair (Joshua Rice)
> 4. Re: DEC PDP-8/e H212 core mat repair (Tom Hunter)
> 5. Re: DEC PDP-8/e H212 core mat repair (Jules Richardson)
> 6. Re: DEC PDP-8/e H212 core mat repair (Rod Smallwood)
> 7. Tektronix 8002 microprocessor lab software (Jules Richardson)
> 8. Re: Tektronix 8002 microprocessor lab software (Zane Healy)
> 9. Re: Tektronix 8002 microprocessor lab software (Al Kossow)
> 10. Re: Tektronix 8002 microprocessor lab software (Al Kossow)
> 11. Re: Tektronix 8002 microprocessor lab software (Al Kossow)
> 12. Re: Tektronix 8002 microprocessor lab software (Jules Richardson)
> 13. Re: Tektronix 8002 microprocessor lab software (Jules Richardson)
> 14. Re: Tektronix 8002 microprocessor lab software (Zane Healy)
> 15. Re: Items Wanted (Jay Jaeger)
> 16. Re: Items Wanted (Zane Healy)
> 17. Re: DEC PDP-8/e H212 core mat repair (Toby Thain)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 17:59:59 +1000
> From: steven at malikoff.com
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: DEC PDP-8/e H212 core mat repair
> Message-ID:
> <84f709701f774aebb1a07a8bbb6eb091.squirrel at webmail04.register.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8
>
> Tom said
>> I am curious if anyone has attempted to repair (replace) a broken wire
>> in a
>> PDP-8/e H212 (MM8EJ) core mat (8 k word). The cores are not visible
>> without
>> a microscope. I cannot imagine how these were even manufactured and
>> wonder
>> if DEC service centers repaired core mat faults or if faulty boards
>> were
>> simply discarded.
>>
>> CDC 6600 cores were huge in comparison and I would not hesitate to
>> replace
>> a broken core wire on those.
>
> I have no idea how DEC made theirs but for IBM's System 360, one of
> their engineers
> came up with the clever idea of stretching the core wire so it necked
> and broke, leaving
> a work-hardened tapered point to thread the cores with.
> They patented it https://patents.google.com/patent/US3314131A
> (Source: page 187 of 'IBM's 360 and early 370 Systems' by Pugh et al)
> On a Youtube film about the 360 they show cores being vibrated into the
> correct
> orientation on a jig board.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 09:40:44 +0100 (BST)
> From: Joshua Rice <rice43 at btinternet.com>
> To: CCtalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: DEC PDP-8/e H212 core mat repair
> Message-ID: <55e9b1e8.2735f.17abdecb557.Webtop.91 at btinternet.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
>
>
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Tom Hunter via cctalk" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Sent: Monday, 19 Jul, 2021 At 06:33
> Subject: DEC PDP-8/e H212 core mat repair
> I am curious if anyone has attempted to repair (replace) a broken wire
> in a
> PDP-8/e H212 (MM8EJ) core mat (8 k word). The cores are not visible
> without
> a microscope. I cannot imagine how these were even manufactured and
> wonder
> if DEC service centers repaired core mat faults or if faulty boards
> were
> simply discarded.
> CDC 6600 cores were huge in comparison and I would not hesitate to
> replace
> a broken core wire on those.
> Best regards
> Tom Hunter
>
>
> I believe much of the core manufacturing for DEC minicomputers was
> outsourced, but a lot of it had become much more automated by the late
> 60's and early 70's. I believe it was done by machine, with a tray to
> hold the toroids in place, and a very fine needle-like "bobbin" that
> threaded the wires through the toroids. I believe threading the cores
> by
> hand had become largely obsolete by the time the PDP-8 came onto the
> market.
> Though i can't confirm it, i highly doubt that DEC engineers would
> repair core planes. These would more likely be sent back to the
> manufacturer for "recycling", with the cores being recovered and
> reused.
> It's worth noting that most computer manufacturers appreciated the
> fragility of core memory planes at the time, with most of them being
> protected with either PCB's or perspex/plastic shields on top of the
> core planes. In this way, it was rather difficult for a clumsy ol'
> technician to put his thumb through the planes as he was servicing
> machines.
> Josh
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 09:52:13 +0100 (BST)
> From: Joshua Rice <rice43 at btinternet.com>
> To: CCtalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: DEC PDP-8/e H212 core mat repair
> Message-ID: <5d5f0788.273f3.17abdf7399b.Webtop.91 at btinternet.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
>
>
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Tom Hunter via cctalk" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Sent: Monday, 19 Jul, 2021 At 06:33
> Subject: DEC PDP-8/e H212 core mat repair
> I am curious if anyone has attempted to repair (replace) a broken wire
> in a
> PDP-8/e H212 (MM8EJ) core mat (8 k word). The cores are not visible
> without
> a microscope. I cannot imagine how these were even manufactured and
> wonder
> if DEC service centers repaired core mat faults or if faulty boards
> were
> simply discarded.
> CDC 6600 cores were huge in comparison and I would not hesitate to
> replace
> a broken core wire on those.
> Best regards
> Tom Hunter
>
>
> These patents might be enlightening. I'm sure there's others, but these
> are some i've found on a quick search.
> https://patents.google.com/patent/US4161037A
> <https://patents.google.com/patent/US4161037A>
> https://patents.google.com/patent/US3668664
> <https://patents.google.com/patent/US3668664>
> Josh
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 19:02:25 +0800
> From: Tom Hunter <ccth6600 at gmail.com>
> To: Joshua Rice <rice43 at btinternet.com>, "General Discussion:
> On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: DEC PDP-8/e H212 core mat repair
> Message-ID:
> <CAALEduCP_GLHuuMG2UO3CU329-_3E=RPqzVZ+RUGC6gTVQNFow at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Thanks Josh,
>
> I read through both patents but struggled to fully understand what they
> described.
> Unfortunately patents are written in broad terms to cover as much as
> possible.
>
> It was very interesting nevertheless.
>
> Best regards
> Tom Hunter
>
> On Mon, Jul 19, 2021 at 4:52 PM Joshua Rice via cctalk <
> cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------ Original Message ------
>> From: "Tom Hunter via cctalk" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
>> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
>> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
>> Sent: Monday, 19 Jul, 2021 At 06:33
>> Subject: DEC PDP-8/e H212 core mat repair
>> I am curious if anyone has attempted to repair (replace) a broken wire
>> in a
>> PDP-8/e H212 (MM8EJ) core mat (8 k word). The cores are not visible
>> without
>> a microscope. I cannot imagine how these were even manufactured and
>> wonder
>> if DEC service centers repaired core mat faults or if faulty boards
>> were
>> simply discarded.
>> CDC 6600 cores were huge in comparison and I would not hesitate to
>> replace
>> a broken core wire on those.
>> Best regards
>> Tom Hunter
>>
>>
>> These patents might be enlightening. I'm sure there's others, but
>> these
>> are some i've found on a quick search.
>> https://patents.google.com/patent/US4161037A
>> <https://patents.google.com/patent/US4161037A>
>> https://patents.google.com/patent/US3668664
>> <https://patents.google.com/patent/US3668664>
>> Josh
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 16:50:10 -0500
> From: Jules Richardson <jules.richardson99 at gmail.com>
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: DEC PDP-8/e H212 core mat repair
> Message-ID: <769e6168-9024-fa20-5b9c-ed1cb91ec641 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed
>
> On 7/19/21 3:40 AM, Joshua Rice via cctalk wrote:
>> I believe much of the core manufacturing for DEC minicomputers was
>> outsourced, but a lot of it had become much more automated by the late
>> 60's
>> and early 70's.
>
> I've got a trio of planes here, two of which are from a Lockheed
> MAC-16,
> but the other one is made by Keronix out of Santa Monica for an unknown
> machine (dated 1973, model number "P4" and p/n 816335 if that means
> anything to anyone, approx 16"x16" with two 100-pin, double-sided
> finger
> edge connectors on 0.1" spacing).
>
> Anyhoo, the Keronix one has a sticker on it saying it was repaired by
> DMA,
> inc. in Amery, WI in 1980 - which might suggest that there were third
> parties around working on boards, rather than them having to go back to
> the
> manufacturer for repair. (I have no idea what the nature of the repair
> was,
> of course; maybe it was to surrounding logic rather than the mat
> itself).
>
>> It's worth noting that most computer manufacturers appreciated the
>> fragility of core memory planes at the time, with most of them being
>> protected with either PCB's or perspex/plastic shields on top of the
>> core
>> planes.
>
> Yes, that's how all the ones I've ever seen have been. The Keronix one
> has
> an additional shield over the top of the entire PCB, on top of the one
> protecting the cores.
>
> Jules
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 23:06:26 +0100
> From: Rod Smallwood <rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com>
> To: Jules Richardson via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: DEC PDP-8/e H212 core mat repair
> Message-ID: <d5251315-3f4c-3a46-e36e-71949a90c26e at btinternet.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed
>
>
> Yes most core stringing was outsourced.
>
> By hand under magnification was used.
>
> I cant recall any references to automation.
>
> That would br down to the supplier.
>
> The story I heard was at least some were done by embroidery girls in
> Hong Kong
>
> Rod Smallwood ? -- Digital Equipment Corporation? 1975 to 1985
>
>
> On 19/07/2021 22:50, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:
>> On 7/19/21 3:40 AM, Joshua Rice via cctalk wrote:
>>> I believe much of the core manufacturing for DEC minicomputers was
>>> outsourced, but a lot of it had become much more automated by the
>>> late 60's and early 70's.
>>
>> I've got a trio of planes here, two of which are from a Lockheed
>> MAC-16, but the other one is made by Keronix out of Santa Monica for
>> an unknown machine (dated 1973, model number "P4" and p/n 816335 if
>> that means anything to anyone, approx 16"x16" with two 100-pin,
>> double-sided finger edge connectors on 0.1" spacing).
>>
>> Anyhoo, the Keronix one has a sticker on it saying it was repaired by
>> DMA, inc. in Amery, WI in 1980 - which might suggest that there were
>> third parties around working on boards, rather than them having to go
>> back to the manufacturer for repair. (I have no idea what the nature
>> of the repair was, of course; maybe it was to surrounding logic rather
>> than the mat itself).
>>
>>> It's worth noting that most computer manufacturers appreciated the
>>> fragility of core memory planes at the time, with most of them being
>>> protected with either PCB's or perspex/plastic shields on top of the
>>> core planes.
>>
>> Yes, that's how all the ones I've ever seen have been. The Keronix one
>> has an additional shield over the top of the entire PCB, on top of the
>> one protecting the cores.
>>
>> Jules
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 18:03:46 -0500
> From: Jules Richardson <jules.richardson99 at gmail.com>
> To: CCtalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Tektronix 8002 microprocessor lab software
> Message-ID: <5b8f634d-93c9-22c2-fd05-6e1937767883 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed
>
>
> Just out of interest, is the software for the Tektronix 8002
> microprocessor
> lab archived out there anywhere?
>
> What I believe is one popped up on one of my Facebook groups, and it'd
> be a
> trek to get it even if I can arrange a good price with the current
> owner -
> but it sounds like the software at the site, if it still exists, is
> unlikely to surface from a huge pile of detritus, so that automatically
> puts things right in boat anchor territory.
>
> There may or may not be a terminal, too; I get the impression those
> were
> optional (I've been told that there are two Tek terminals, I just don't
> know if they're the right models for this system).
>
>
> cheers
>
> Jules
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 16:11:32 -0700
> From: Zane Healy <healyzh at avanthar.com>
> To: Jules Richardson <jules.richardson99 at gmail.com>, "General
> Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Tektronix 8002 microprocessor lab software
> Message-ID: <ED3B17DB-6591-493A-B470-D940A5E18A91 at avanthar.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> You might check with the Tektronix museum, and see what they know. As
> far as I know, they aren?t actually part of Tektronix.
>
> Zane
>
>
>
>> On Jul 19, 2021, at 4:03 PM, Jules Richardson via cctalk
>> <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Just out of interest, is the software for the Tektronix 8002
>> microprocessor lab archived out there anywhere?
>>
>> What I believe is one popped up on one of my Facebook groups, and it'd
>> be a trek to get it even if I can arrange a good price with the
>> current owner - but it sounds like the software at the site, if it
>> still exists, is unlikely to surface from a huge pile of detritus, so
>> that automatically puts things right in boat anchor territory.
>>
>> There may or may not be a terminal, too; I get the impression those
>> were optional (I've been told that there are two Tek terminals, I just
>> don't know if they're the right models for this system).
>>
>>
>> cheers
>>
>> Jules
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 16:15:11 -0700
> From: Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org>
> To: Jules Richardson via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Tektronix 8002 microprocessor lab software
> Message-ID: <395e3439-3632-33ea-9579-883ad602b8e5 at bitsavers.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed
>
> On 7/19/21 4:03 PM, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:
>>
>> Just out of interest, is the software for the Tektronix 8002
>> microprocessor lab archived out there anywhere?
>
> I have some but it is hard-sectored so I've never tried to read it.
>
> It's pretty unlikely anyone at the tek museum would have tried to
> recover
> the floppies even if they had them.
>
> One of my 'really like to try to recover' things at CHM is we have a
> bunch of floppies from
> the company that designed it for Tek, but someone put a center punch
> through every disk, so
> I'm going to have to take them out of the jacket and try to flatten
> the dent out as best as
> I can.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 16:20:19 -0700
> From: Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org>
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: Tektronix 8002 microprocessor lab software
> Message-ID: <a0c2c3a7-4c74-81da-1f40-a581d3f29fda at bitsavers.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed
>
> On 7/19/21 4:03 PM, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:
>>
>> Just out of interest, is the software for the Tektronix 8002
>> microprocessor lab archived out there anywhere?
>>
>
> It would be nice to save a complete system though, since most have
> been tossed out since there is little
> practical use for them now. I never had a whole one, just board sets
> for various processors that I collected
> over the years.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 16:25:21 -0700
> From: Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org>
> To: Al Kossow via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Tektronix 8002 microprocessor lab software
> Message-ID: <f4bafaa8-f4d9-95aa-016e-68d36d7c8b8a at bitsavers.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed
>
> On 7/19/21 4:20 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
>> On 7/19/21 4:03 PM, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:
>
>> It would be nice to save a complete system though, since most have
>> been tossed out since there is little
>> practical use for them now.
>
> I've collected a LOT of in-circuit emulators and microprocessor
> development systems over the decades, and
> I'm trying to decide right now what I'm going to do with them.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 19:53:25 -0500
> From: Jules Richardson <jules.richardson99 at gmail.com>
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: Tektronix 8002 microprocessor lab software
> Message-ID: <8d864579-a8be-c8b1-9734-d208d0c10bcf at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed
>
> On 7/19/21 6:20 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
>> On 7/19/21 4:03 PM, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:
>>>
>>> Just out of interest, is the software for the Tektronix 8002
>>> microprocessor lab archived out there anywhere?
>>>
>>
>> It would be nice to save a complete system though, since most have
>> been
>> tossed out since there is little
>> practical use for them now.
>
> Well sadly it's looking like game over. By the sounds of it there's a
> basement full of old equipment and boards, and a scrapper out in OH has
> offered $6k for the lot, sight unseen, just on the hope that they can
> make
> a buck on the gold and palladium content.
>
> The next offer seems to be from someone who's planning on just dumping
> it
> on ebay - so if the scrapper deal falls through maybe it'll resurface
> on
> That Auction Site for lolprice...
>
> This is starting to feel like one of those situations where it's a huge
> shame that the original owner of this stuff didn't have a will
> expressing
> what should be done with it all.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 20:17:27 -0500
> From: Jules Richardson <jules.richardson99 at gmail.com>
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: Tektronix 8002 microprocessor lab software
> Message-ID: <a734724d-b7f5-deb8-6e1f-10e429e8f43f at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed
>
> On 7/19/21 7:53 PM, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:
>> Well sadly it's looking like game over. By the sounds of it there's a
>> basement full of old equipment and boards, and a scrapper out in OH
>> has
>> offered $6k for the lot, sight unseen, just on the hope that they can
>> make
>> a buck on the gold and palladium content.
>
> annnnd... right after I hit send on that, things start looking up
> again.
> The guy responsible for this stuff doesn't seem to want it to get
> scrapped
> any more than I do, and he got in touch with folks down at Cape
> Canaveral
> (there are various ex-NASA things in the pile), then talked to the
> family
> of the estate; it sounds like some of it at least might get donated to
> the
> collection down there.
>
> I'm not sure about non-NASA things at this point, we'll see - but it
> sounds
> like there's interest now in not junking it, at least!
>
> Jules
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 19:56:29 -0700
> From: Zane Healy <healyzh at avanthar.com>
> To: Jules Richardson <jules.richardson99 at gmail.com>, "General
> Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Tektronix 8002 microprocessor lab software
> Message-ID: <DE9B0230-1D5D-4416-992D-6B60A7886F17 at avanthar.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> On Jul 19, 2021, at 6:17 PM, Jules Richardson via cctalk
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>
>> On 7/19/21 7:53 PM, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:
>>> Well sadly it's looking like game over. By the sounds of it there's a
>>> basement full of old equipment and boards, and a scrapper out in OH
>>> has offered $6k for the lot, sight unseen, just on the hope that they
>>> can make a buck on the gold and palladium content.
>>
>> annnnd... right after I hit send on that, things start looking up
>> again. The guy responsible for this stuff doesn't seem to want it to
>> get scrapped any more than I do, and he got in touch with folks down
>> at Cape Canaveral (there are various ex-NASA things in the pile), then
>> talked to the family of the estate; it sounds like some of it at least
>> might get donated to the collection down there.
>>
>> I'm not sure about non-NASA things at this point, we'll see - but it
>> sounds like there's interest now in not junking it, at least!
>>
>> Jules
>
> That?s a bit of good news!
>
> Zane
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 22:03:49 -0500
> From: Jay Jaeger <cube1 at charter.net>
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
> Cc: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Items Wanted
> Message-ID: <9ac110f9-2407-c9ba-6ec5-d70e9fd10d26 at charter.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> On 7/11/2021 9:33 AM, Eric Moore via cctalk wrote:
>> Hello, I am looking for any of the following items. I have terminals
>> and
>> assorted qbus and S100 cards for trade, or am happy to discuss payment
>> :).
>>
>> 1) Qbus scsi card
>
> You and me both. ;) I have one - and I intend to keep it.
>
>> 2) Emulex TC01
>> 3) QBUS bus probe
>> 4) SD2SCSI
>
> Do you mean a device that emulates a SCSI drive with an SD card? Why
> not just go out and purchase a SCSI2SD V5.1 - a little slower than the
> newer ones, but works fine in my Sun, SGI and Intergraph Boxen.
>
> I also just bought one of the less expensive Androda SCSI emulators -
> designed for Macs, really, but it might work and it is relatively
> inexpensive.
>
>> 5) Teletype DRPE or ARPE (already have a BRPE) paper tape punches
>> 6) AED/tektronix/SGI/etc... graphics terminal
>
> FYI, if you have "Pizza Boxes" then I have found that the cable
> commonly
> available (VGA one end, 13W3 on the other - the one with switches on
> it)
> works well on both Sun and SGI Boxen. Google Sun VGA 13W3 on eBay.
> You probably want the one with the switches.)
>
>> 7) Unfomatted pertec controller (any bus)
>
> I have some old Pertec formatters that have no bus interface. Free to
> good homes. Some were mouse houses for a while, but were subsequently
> cleaned up reasonably well. Models F649-72 (2 of those) and F649-40.
> Heavy to ship.
>
> In addition, I think I have a TC031, Pertec/QBus (I think) that I
> really
> am not using. I tried it out once - I think the issue was that I had a
> Pertec interface speed mismatch between it and the HP drive I have with
> a Pertec interface (which also has issues with loading tape.) I
> suspect it is formatted, however.
>
>> 8) S100 jade bus probe, system monitor board, or similar
>> 9) Anything fabri-tek, Gould, or SEL
>
> I have a Fabritek memory box. I think it was on a PDP-12, but am not
> 100% certain without going back and looking at old paperwork. I am not
> sure of its condition, electrically speaking - whether it had slots for
> cables, or cables coming out of it, and if the latter, whether they are
> intact. It has been stored in my basement for decades, low and dray.
> That would take some work to pry out of my hands.
>
>> 10) blinkenlights and flippenpaddles computers, any interesting front
>> panels, etc...
>> 11) ESDI disk emulator
>
> I am not aware of any such beasties in the wild. MFM, yes, but I
> haven't seen ESDI. I would love for such a thing to exist, thinking
> of
> my Apollo, 3B2 and IBM RT/PC workstations.
>
>>
>> Thank you!
>>
>> -Eric
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 21:00:27 -0700
> From: Zane Healy <healyzh at avanthar.com>
> To: Jay Jaeger <cube1 at charter.net>, "General Discussion: On-Topic and
> Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Items Wanted
> Message-ID: <3EFC578F-97F0-468A-B3F1-8E4C17094843 at avanthar.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> On Jul 19, 2021, at 8:03 PM, Jay Jaeger via cctalk
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>
>> On 7/11/2021 9:33 AM, Eric Moore via cctalk wrote:
>>> Hello, I am looking for any of the following items. I have terminals
>>> and
>>> assorted qbus and S100 cards for trade, or am happy to discuss
>>> payment :).
>>> 1) Qbus scsi card
>>
>> You and me both. ;) I have one - and I intend to keep it.
>
> Yeah, they are sort of a necessity.
>
>>> 4) SD2SCSI
>>
>> Do you mean a device that emulates a SCSI drive with an SD card? Why
>> not just go out and purchase a SCSI2SD V5.1 - a little slower than the
>> newer ones, but works fine in my Sun, SGI and Intergraph Boxen.
>
> The SCSI2SD v5.1 should be faster than the Q-Bus. I bought several
> recently, and plan to put one in my PDP-11/73. I even opted for these
> for my VAXstation 4000?s. I figure I?ll use the newer ones in an
> AlphaStation.
>
>>> 11) ESDI disk emulator
>>
>> I am not aware of any such beasties in the wild. MFM, yes, but I
>> haven't seen ESDI. I would love for such a thing to exist, thinking
>> of my Apollo, 3B2 and IBM RT/PC workstations.
>
> I?d also love to have one of these, preferably using SD or CF cards.
> The Webster WQESD/04 card is a fantastic card, it?s only downfall is
> that it works with ESDI drives, rather than SCSI, and they?re big and
> loud. :-)
>
> Zane
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 18:16:28 -0400
> From: Toby Thain <toby at telegraphics.com.au>
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: DEC PDP-8/e H212 core mat repair
> Message-ID: <820d43ed-e32d-4394-4038-bb662f5e6798 at telegraphics.com.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15
>
> On 2021-07-19 6:06 p.m., Rod Smallwood via cctalk wrote:
>>
>> Yes most core stringing was outsourced.
>>
>
> There's more detail on early core production in the book "IBM's Early
> Computers", iirc. (And possibly "A Few Good Men From Univac".)
>
>
>> ...
>> Rod Smallwood ? -- Digital Equipment Corporation? 1975 to 1985
>>
>>
>> On 19/07/2021 22:50, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:
>>> On 7/19/21 3:40 AM, Joshua Rice via cctalk wrote:
>>>> I believe much of the core manufacturing for DEC minicomputers was
>>>> outsourced, but a lot of it had become much more automated by the
>>>> late 60's and early 70's.
>>>
>>> I've got a trio of planes here, two of which are from a Lockheed
>>> MAC-16, but the other one is made by Keronix out of Santa Monica for
>>> an unknown machine (dated 1973, model number "P4" and p/n 816335 if
>>> that means anything to anyone, approx 16"x16" with two 100-pin,
>>> double-sided finger edge connectors on 0.1" spacing).
>>>
>>> Anyhoo, the Keronix one has a sticker on it saying it was repaired by
>>> DMA, inc. in Amery, WI in 1980 - which might suggest that there were
>>> third parties around working on boards, rather than them having to go
>>> back to the manufacturer for repair. (I have no idea what the nature
>>> of the repair was, of course; maybe it was to surrounding logic
>>> rather
>>> than the mat itself).
>>>
>>>> It's worth noting that most computer manufacturers appreciated the
>>>> fragility of core memory planes at the time, with most of them being
>>>> protected with either PCB's or perspex/plastic shields on top of the
>>>> core planes.
>>>
>>> Yes, that's how all the ones I've ever seen have been. The Keronix
>>> one
>>> has an additional shield over the top of the entire PCB, on top of
>>> the
>>> one protecting the cores.
>>>
>>> Jules
>
>
>
> End of cctech Digest, Vol 82, Issue 15
> **************************************
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 10:30:38 -0700
From: Barry Hills <hills.barry at gmail.com>
To: cctech at classiccmp.org
Subject: WANTED: IBM 360 operators panel
Message-ID: <2BB5CCCE-1CD0-4F67-B847-2908F932B053 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I am looking for an IBM 360 operator panel. Model 55 would be wonderful but I would consider any 360/370. To be used for demo so condition of switches & lights is important.
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 14:27:11 -0500
From: Jay Jaeger <cube1 at charter.net>
To: Eric Moore <mooreericnyc at gmail.com>, Zane Healy
<healyzh at avanthar.com>, "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic
Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Items Wanted
Message-ID: <da472dd0-c98b-18c3-505e-3504d936311d at charter.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
On 7/20/2021 6:59 AM, Eric Moore wrote:
>
>
> >> 11) ESDI disk emulator
> >
> > I am not aware of any such beasties in the wild.? MFM, yes, but I
> haven't seen ESDI.? ?I would love for such a thing to exist,
> thinking of my Apollo, 3B2 and IBM RT/PC workstations.
>
> I?d also love to have one of these, preferably using SD or CF
> cards.? The Webster WQESD/04 card is a fantastic card, it?s only
> downfall is that it works with ESDI drives, rather than SCSI, and
> they?re big and loud. :-)
>
> Zane
>
>
> http://www.datexdsm.com/ESDI.php <http://www.datexdsm.com/ESDI.php> is
> what I was thinking of. There are a couple other commercial models out
> there on offer, no one seems to have one though in the discord or
> apparently here :)
>
> -Eric
>
>
I fear these, as well as those shown on one or two other websites, are
vapor-ware. The MFM emulators all seem out of stock, the ESDI emulator
(DWX750) "documentation" is not even a page - just a "blurb".
JRJ
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 15:27:19 -0400
From: Richard Milward <rsmilward at frontier.com>
To: Classic Computer <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Re: DEC PDP-8/e H212 core mat repair
Message-ID: <a63671e3-c5cf-1bf0-0f54-a9908f210a63 at frontier.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Going by the size, I'd say the Keronix board is for a Data General Nova or one of its ilk. Keronix did make core boards with p/n starting 816 for Novas.
**Richard
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 16:50:10 -0500
From: Jules Richardson<jules.richardson99 at gmail.com>
To:cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: DEC PDP-8/e H212 core mat repair
Message-ID:<769e6168-9024-fa20-5b9c-ed1cb91ec641 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed
On 7/19/21 3:40 AM, Joshua Rice via cctalk wrote:
> I believe much of the core manufacturing for DEC minicomputers was
> outsourced, but a lot of it had become much more automated by the late 60's
> and early 70's.
I've got a trio of planes here, two of which are from a Lockheed MAC-16,
but the other one is made by Keronix out of Santa Monica for an unknown
machine (dated 1973, model number "P4" and p/n 816335 if that means
anything to anyone, approx 16"x16" with two 100-pin, double-sided finger
edge connectors on 0.1" spacing).
Anyhoo, the Keronix one has a sticker on it saying it was repaired by DMA,
inc. in Amery, WI in 1980 - which might suggest that there were third
parties around working on boards, rather than them having to go back to the
manufacturer for repair. (I have no idea what the nature of the repair was,
of course; maybe it was to surrounding logic rather than the mat itself).
> It's worth noting that most computer manufacturers appreciated the
> fragility of core memory planes at the time, with most of them being
> protected with either PCB's or perspex/plastic shields on top of the core
> planes.
Yes, that's how all the ones I've ever seen have been. The Keronix one has
an additional shield over the top of the entire PCB, on top of the one
protecting the cores.
Jules
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 15:07:49 -0500
From: Jay Jaeger <cube1 at charter.net>
To: cctech at classiccmp.org
Cc: rich <rich at sky-visions.com>
Subject: IBM 1410 Processor Operating System Compiler Status Report
Message-ID: <2e9f706b-8e79-7b0a-1c1d-67ca78944adf at charter.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Over the past few weeks I have been playing with the COBOL, FORTRAN and
RPG compilers that are present on the IBM 1410 PR108 Processor Operating
system tape, available at:
http://piercefuller.com/library/kau1401s.html (it is really 1410) and
https://sky-visions.com/ibm/ibm7010_soft.shtml (For use under SimH)
FORTRAN: While the compiler seems to function, this is probably a "lost
cause" as we have neither the FORTRAN library, nor the relocatable
loader required - those were shipped by IBM on a separate tape. Getting
around this would require reproducing both.
COBOL: It is not usable in its current state, but maybe not a totally
lost cause. It requires some macros (notably "MOVE=" for any MOVE
statements) and Subroutines accessed via Autocoder CALL (for example, to
use the DISPLAY verb.) I have no current plans to do such work. One
would have to code some programs, see what got generated, and then
create (or modify ones that had been started earlier) macros to support
the result. It would take a lot of work, but not impossibly much.
The relevant early IBM COBOL General Information manual is now available
on bitsavers at
http://bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/generalInfo/F28-8053-2_COBOL_General_Information_1961.pdf
I have a copy of the relevant IBM 1410 compiler supplement, manual
number C28-0330, but it is on Fiche and portions are not very good images.
RPG 1410-RG-910-43: This turned into an "ugly duckling" of sorts. We
have only the sparse information provided in the PR-134 Processor
Operating System manual, C28-0287-1 (available on bitsavers). HOWEVER,
as luck and history would have it, it turned out that this RPG is based
on an extremely similar to one of the early 1401 RPG "compilers" for
which a manual *is* available, J24-0215-2. [I discovered this by looking
at the 1410 bibliography, find the form numbers for the coding forms for
1410 RPG, and searching for those, and getting hits on the 1401 manual,
above.) With that information, along with a little bit of disassembly
to figure out most of what goes into the PR-108 "RG" control card it
uses, I was able to put together a couple of sample programs, and kept
some notes as well as a partial disassembly of Phase RPG1.
This might be the earliest RPG available anywhere - I haven't seen a
1401 RPG tape image anywhere to date, though maybe someone has one I am
not aware of.
Also, since it generates Autocoder, it might not be impossibly difficult
to port one of the samples back to the 1401 - the logic implemented in
the 1410 RPG generated Autocoder appears very very similar to that
described in the 1401 manual.
The materials I put together relating to the IBM 1410 RPG "compiler" are
now available in a zip file at (feel free to copy)
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1RXtSCW0EpBYQqb_EY_iqnLUqt4btYWVt?usp=sharing
JRJ
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 17:34:50 -0700
From: Josh Dersch <derschjo at gmail.com>
To: Jay Jaeger <cube1 at charter.net>, "General Discussion: On-Topic and
Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Items Wanted
Message-ID:
<CADBZjLbjEA9VmhGfrGYoks0SaNH+4FnQ1CRaLAabrXyNsuB9cw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 4:06 PM Jay Jaeger via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
> On 7/20/2021 6:59 AM, Eric Moore wrote:
> >
> >
> > >> 11) ESDI disk emulator
> > >
> > > I am not aware of any such beasties in the wild. MFM, yes, but I
> > haven't seen ESDI. I would love for such a thing to exist,
> > thinking of my Apollo, 3B2 and IBM RT/PC workstations.
> >
> > I?d also love to have one of these, preferably using SD or CF
> > cards. The Webster WQESD/04 card is a fantastic card, it?s only
> > downfall is that it works with ESDI drives, rather than SCSI, and
> > they?re big and loud. :-)
> >
> > Zane
> >
> >
> > http://www.datexdsm.com/ESDI.php <http://www.datexdsm.com/ESDI.php> is
> > what I was thinking of. There are a couple other commercial models out
> > there on offer, no one seems to have one though in the discord or
> > apparently here :)
> >
> > -Eric
> >
> >
>
> I fear these, as well as those shown on one or two other websites, are
> vapor-ware. The MFM emulators all seem out of stock, the ESDI emulator
> (DWX750) "documentation" is not even a page - just a "blurb".
>
>
I had a similar experience with a set of emulators made by Arraid -- LCM
inquired about one of their SMD emulators (
https://www.arraid.com/data-storage-products/product/aem-1.html) and the
response we got was "we can no longer source the parts to manufacture
these, we have a few remaining in stock that we will sell for $10,000 a
piece." We did not purchase one.
I suspect that even if you could find someone to sell you one of these
emulators, they would be extremely expensive. I have never seen one for
sale on the used market. If you find one, consider yourself lucky. If
anyone *DOES* have one of these SMD emulators and wants to find a new home
for it, do drop me a line.
- Josh
> JRJ
>
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 21:47:39 -0500
From: Jay Jaeger <cube1 at charter.net>
To: Josh Dersch <derschjo at gmail.com>, "General Discussion: On-Topic
and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Items Wanted
Message-ID: <cd7bd4d1-63af-82f9-5de2-5e3de03803de at charter.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
On 7/20/2021 7:34 PM, Josh Dersch wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 4:06 PM Jay Jaeger via cctalk
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org <mailto:cctalk at classiccmp.org>> wrote:
>
> On 7/20/2021 6:59 AM, Eric Moore wrote:
> >
> >
> >? ? ? >> 11) ESDI disk emulator
> >? ? ? >
> >? ? ? > I am not aware of any such beasties in the wild.? MFM,
> yes, but I
> >? ? ?haven't seen ESDI.? ?I would love for such a thing to exist,
> >? ? ?thinking of my Apollo, 3B2 and IBM RT/PC workstations.
> >
> >? ? ?I?d also love to have one of these, preferably using SD or CF
> >? ? ?cards.? The Webster WQESD/04 card is a fantastic card, it?s only
> >? ? ?downfall is that it works with ESDI drives, rather than SCSI, and
> >? ? ?they?re big and loud. :-)
> >
> >? ? ?Zane
> >
> >
> > http://www.datexdsm.com/ESDI.php
> <http://www.datexdsm.com/ESDI.php> <http://www.datexdsm.com/ESDI.php
> <http://www.datexdsm.com/ESDI.php>> is
> > what I was thinking of. There are a couple other commercial
> models out
> > there on offer, no one seems to have one though in the discord or
> > apparently here :)
> >
> > -Eric
> >
> >
>
> I fear these, as well as those shown on one or two other websites, are
> vapor-ware.? The MFM emulators all seem out of stock, the ESDI emulator
> (DWX750) "documentation" is not even a page - just a "blurb".
>
>
> I had a similar experience with a set of emulators made by Arraid -- LCM
> inquired about one of their SMD emulators
> (https://www.arraid.com/data-storage-products/product/aem-1.html
> <https://www.arraid.com/data-storage-products/product/aem-1.html>) and
> the response we got was "we can no longer source the parts to
> manufacture these, we have a few remaining in stock that we will sell
> for $10,000 a piece."? We did not purchase one.
>
> I suspect that even if you could find someone to sell you one of these
> emulators, they would be extremely expensive.? I have never seen one for
> sale on the used market.? If you find one, consider yourself lucky.? If
> anyone *DOES* have one of these SMD emulators and wants to find a new
> home for it, do drop me a line.
>
> - Josh
>
>
> JRJ
>
For SMD, this patent may have been a bit of a stumbling block at one
time, though if it was approved, it would have expired long ago.
https://patents.google.com/patent/WO1990001193A1/en
JRJ
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 18:04:52 -0500
From: Jules Richardson <jules.richardson99 at gmail.com>
To: cctech at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: core matt repair
Message-ID: <205dee38-73b7-c0b8-e1f4-8bb9aedd2e84 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed
On 7/20/21 12:13 PM, pspan via cctech wrote:
> I worked at a company called DMA located in Amery Wisconsin during the 80's
> and 90's that did do core mat repair. Yes, the gal that did the work used a
> scope. She replaced cores and wires. Good luck finding someone to do that
> work now. If I remember the process, first the mat was removed from the
> driver assembly, then the varnish was removed. Then the mat was repaired
> and revarnished and then reassembled and final test before returned to the
> customer.
Oh, well there you go... perhaps the board that I have was repaired by the
gal that you're talking about :-)
Unfortunately there are no initials on my board (as was often the case for
board repairs), only a date and job number.
Jules
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 17:15:36 -0700
From: Brent Hilpert <bhilpert at shaw.ca>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts" <cctech at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: core matt repair
Message-ID: <1A565D36-6EF2-41F9-A045-683863F4CC71 at shaw.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On 2021-Jul-20, at 4:04 PM, Jules Richardson via cctech wrote:
> On 7/20/21 12:13 PM, pspan via cctech wrote:
>> I worked at a company called DMA located in Amery Wisconsin during the 80's and 90's that did do core mat repair. Yes, the gal that did the work used a scope. She replaced cores and wires. Good luck finding someone to do that work now. If I remember the process, first the mat was removed from the driver assembly, then the varnish was removed. Then the mat was repaired and revarnished and then reassembled and final test before returned to the customer.
>
> Oh, well there you go... perhaps the board that I have was repaired by the gal that you're talking about :-)
>
> Unfortunately there are no initials on my board (as was often the case for board repairs), only a date and job number.
In general comment to the topic, I have seen planar arrays ("mats") with some number of randomly-situated wire splices in them.
These splices are in the gaps between bit arrays, not interior to a bit array (there isn't enough space between cores).
The splices are covered in a tiny dollop of (by appearance) silicon putty for insulation.
The number of splices and consistency of appearance suggests they were done at the time of manufacture, while the random distribution suggests they were not part of the manufacturing intention. That is to say, the manufacturing process was itself less than perfect and necessitated 'repairs' so to speak.
On the question of manual vs automated assembly, I take it this could involve a mixture. For example, stringing a number of cores onto a single wire for one axis would be easy to automate, stringing the second axis is more difficult.
The development of 3-wire topologies over 4-wire would have helped automation, or reduced manual effort, considerably. For stringing, the really awkward aspect of the original 4-wire topology was the sense wire that angled through all the cores at 45 degrees to the X,Y,I wires. This was alleviated in the 3-wire topology where there is just 90 degree and parallel relations.
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 07:35:50 +0200
From: jos <jos.dreesen at greenmail.ch>
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: core matt repair
Message-ID: <832897d1-53e1-f6cf-5235-65dcda74f5c9 at greenmail.ch>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
On 21.07.21 02:15, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote:
>
> In general comment to the topic, I have seen planar arrays ("mats") with some number of randomly-situated wire splices in them.
> These splices are in the gaps between bit arrays, not interior to a bit array (there isn't enough space between cores).
> The splices are covered in a tiny dollop of (by appearance) silicon putty for insulation.
>
I have seen the same, and measured that these splices can turn highohmic. I recovered an 8/L coremat by resoldering these splices.
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 21:50:24 -0700
From: jim stephens <jwsmail at jwsss.com>
To: "cctech at classiccmp.org" <cctech at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: core matt repair
Message-ID: <abacd80e-f1c3-e7da-6c09-0f03cc18dd70 at jwsss.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
On 7/20/2021 10:13 AM, pspan via cctech wrote:
> I worked at a company called DMA located in Amery Wisconsin during the
> 80's and 90's that did do core mat repair. Yes, the gal that did the
> work used a scope. She replaced cores and wires. Good luck finding
> someone to do that work now. If I remember the process, first the mat
> was removed from the driver assembly, then the varnish was removed.
> Then the mat was repaired and revarnished and then reassembled and
> final test before returned to the customer.
There was a company started around a lady who did the core repair (one
of two) at Microdata. They had inhouse built up from scratch cores of 8
and 16k size.? Later the Ampex core division which was sold to CDC
manufactured a 32k version.? There were also Keronix 8k which went in
Micro 800s and 1600s.? Earlier there were 4k boards for the 800s.
Anyway the company was Memtek and was located on Grand Ave in Santa Ana,
CA.? They ran into the early 80s until the married couple won one of the
early lotteries for $1m.? The lady wanted to keep working and the
operated for another 18 months when they hit another jackpot for $1m.
That was all she wrote.? I had a chance to buy the core rework
equipment, but didn't.
There was a pretty expensive micro spot welder that she used with a
microscope and a lot of skill plus some cutting devices to free the
wiring.? The patches she did (and the others I saw from the Microdata
lady that remained there) looked like they stood up in the air over the
core plane.? used an acetone soluble material to hold the patch with a
tiny dab on the patch.
The Microdata operation that manufactured 16k cores was relocated to
Puerto Rico and ran for a number of years.
The welding device as I understood it was pretty expensive and very
precise.? I saw, but didn't photograph both off the rework stations.
Somewhere in the pile because we (Microdata) manufactured core I have a
big box of sample vials dumped by a purchasing engineering guy when he
was laid off.? I think they were still buying cores, but he wasn't in a
good mood that day.
A lot of good stuff went home with me that evening as I wasn't laid of.
As one of my early exercises like that felt like a vulture, but it was
funny as I found three other guys picking thru cubicles of laid off guys
picking over goodies.? Felt pretty bad, but you gotta pick up stuff when
it presents itself.
Observation about that, was on a Friday the layoffs took place.? The
hatchet man thought that he actually had a job in charge or Engineering,
he was fired the second Friday after he terminated about 40 engineers.
(Karma).
And the slow ones that thought about the empty cubicles. took to about
Tuesday for some of them to mention in casual conversation (Gee maybe
some good stuff is left in the laid off guy's cubes / offices).? Well, Duh.
anyway a story about core and other stuff.
thanks
Jim
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 11:20:35 +0200
From: Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Compaq Deskpro boards/hard drives from the late 1990s
Message-ID:
<CAMTenCEye6n25v2kxuYVw8TKHe9a_eXdJ+zxLwzJdz_OMZ-toQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
On Tue, 20 Jul 2021 at 20:11, Kevin Anderson via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> But at the same time I also acquired (pulled) from these same computers and their siblings a whole bunch of wired Ethernet network cards
I _think_ ISA ones are in more demand these days.
> one or two video cards,
PCI?
> a whole bunch of the IDE/PATA 5.25-inch desktop CD drives
CD, or CDRW, or DVD, or DVDRW?
> and a whole bunch(!) of 10- and 20-GByte IDE/PATA 5.25-inch desktop hard drives
I consider this bit unlikely TBH. 5.25" *IDE* HDDs were _extremely_
rare. The 5.25" format was dead before IDE came along, and 99% were
3.5", except the Quantum Bigfoot range. Those were slow, unreliable,
but cheap. I have one, as a sentimental reminder of full-width hard
disk drives from the beginning of my career.
> I believe the vintage makes them all PCI cards for the network and video cards.
You can't tell?! They don't even look similar. Google will give you
pics in seconds.
You will need to identify this stuff much more specifically. Makes,
models, capacities, speeds, etc.
E.g. nobody wants 10base-2 or Thick Ethernet cards much any more. UTP,
slightly more so: 10base-T, not much, 100base-T somewhat yes.
Plain old CD? Probably not. DVDRW? You might find takers.
Graphics: depends what. Early 3D cards are somewhat wanted.
Tiny IDE hard disks, probably not. CF-card is cheaper, faster and more reliable.
It's not worth a lot.
OTOH, those unique Compaq combined 5.25" + 3.5" floppy drives are
quite sought-after.
SCSI drives are quite desirable.
It's probably not worth a _lot_ but maybe a few hundred bucks if you
are specific and ship anywhere. Remember a lot of collectors are in
countries where this stuff is very hard to come by, and will pay top
dollar.
But you need to be willing to be specific, list exact model numbers,
take photos showing ID labels, and ideally, to _test it_.
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lproven at gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven ? Skype: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 ? ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 06:48:08 -0500
From: Jules Richardson <jules.richardson99 at gmail.com>
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Compaq Deskpro boards/hard drives from the late 1990s
Message-ID: <2de75d68-61e7-b49d-48f2-9f3729d62232 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed
On 7/21/21 4:20 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
>> and a whole bunch(!) of 10- and 20-GByte IDE/PATA 5.25-inch desktop hard drives
>
> I consider this bit unlikely TBH. 5.25" *IDE* HDDs were _extremely_
> rare. The 5.25" format was dead before IDE came along, and 99% were
> 3.5", except the Quantum Bigfoot range. Those were slow, unreliable,
> but cheap. I have one, as a sentimental reminder of full-width hard
> disk drives from the beginning of my career.
Compaq were big fans of the Bigfoot drives, if I remember right - I expect
that's what they are. I'd put them in that "rare but not valuable" category
though, possibly of minor interest to a few collectors or museums just for
the quirky aspect.
Regarding your "IDE HDDs were extremely rare" comment, did *anyone* other
than Quantum release an IDE drive in that 5.25" form factor? I can't think
of any, everything else was 3.5", although some early vendor's drives were
the same height as a "half height" 5.25" drive.
------------------------------
Message: 18
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 21:04:11 -0500
From: John Foust <jfoust at threedee.com>
To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: core matt repair
Message-ID: <20210721123804.5B10627476 at mx1.ezwind.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:13 PM 7/20/2021, pspan via cctalk wrote:
>I worked at a company called DMA located in Amery Wisconsin during the 80's and 90's that did do core mat repair.
And why were they in Amery, WI - a very small town?
- John
------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 09:59:02 -0400
From: Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net>
To: John Foust <jfoust at threedee.com>, "cctalk at classiccmp.org"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: core matt repair
Message-ID: <E0451D16-9303-4E56-B43E-4018164AFAD2 at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> On Jul 20, 2021, at 10:04 PM, John Foust via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> At 12:13 PM 7/20/2021, pspan via cctalk wrote:
>> I worked at a company called DMA located in Amery Wisconsin during the 80's and 90's that did do core mat repair.
>
> And why were they in Amery, WI - a very small town?
>
> - John
Perhaps because someone there started the business, did a good job, and since the field wasn't big enough to support two companies he ended up owning the one and only core repair company in the US.
Re an earlier comment about 3-wire vs. 4-wire topologies, if you want to see even wilder stuff take a look at the design of the CDC 6000 core modules. It's documented in one of the training manuals on Bitsavers. It uses a FIVE wire design, with two inhibit wires rather than one. And the inhibit wire doesn't run through the whole plane as is usual; there are four horizontal and four vertical inhibit wires.
The description doesn't give a reason, but my assumption for why this was done is that the total inductance of each of the driven wires (X, Y, InhX and InhY) in the 12-bit stack is roughly the same. That means a single driver design works for all those wires. The other thing that's interesting is that the drivers don't switch current on and off; instead, they switch current from an idling inductor to the wire. Again, it doesn't say why; I assume it is for speed (short pulse duration). Certainly the performance of those memories -- 1 microsecond read/restore cycle and under 500 ns access time -- is astoundingly fast for 1964.
paul
------------------------------
Message: 20
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 10:08:17 -0400
From: Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net>
To: Brent Hilpert <bhilpert at shaw.ca>, "General Discussion: On-Topic
Posts" <cctech at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: core matt repair
Message-ID: <81431192-FBC8-4551-A0C1-A03498BAD5FF at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> On Jul 20, 2021, at 8:15 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctech <cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> ...
> The development of 3-wire topologies over 4-wire would have helped automation, or reduced manual effort, considerably. For stringing, the really awkward aspect of the original 4-wire topology was the sense wire that angled through all the cores at 45 degrees to the X,Y,I wires. This was alleviated in the 3-wire topology where there is just 90 degree and parallel relations.
There is even such a thing as 2-wire core memory. That means no coincident current addressing, instead each address wire directly addresses a column of cores and the sense wires (horizontal) sense the bits in the word. CDC 6000 series ECS -- bulk core memory used as a very fast block transfer storage -- was built that way, with 488 bit words (8 60-bit CPU words plus parity, 3.2 microsecond cycle time, 4-way interleaved to deliver a CPU word every 100 ns CPU "minor cycle").
In the 1950s, bistable (square hysteresis loop) cores were used as logic elements. Ken Olsen, the founder of DEC, did his MS thesis work on this. And I have somewhere an article about a keyboard operated Morse code sending device from that era that is built around a ferrite core shift register.
It isn't usually described this way, but a good way to think of conventional core memory is as an array of logic elements. Each core is a three input AND gate, with the inputs being X, Y, and not-Inhibit.
paul
------------------------------
Message: 21
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 16:32:31 +0200
From: Peter Corlett <abuse at cabal.org.uk>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Compaq Deskpro boards/hard drives from the late 1990s
Message-ID: <YPgv/7yBHrU5F1oV at mooli.org.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Wed, Jul 21, 2021 at 06:48:08AM -0500, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:
[...]
> Regarding your "IDE HDDs were extremely rare" comment, did *anyone* other
> than Quantum release an IDE drive in that 5.25" form factor? I can't think
> of any, everything else was 3.5", although some early vendor's drives were
> the same height as a "half height" 5.25" drive.
Not quite answering the question you asked, but optical drives from 15-25
years ago are 5.25" IDE devices.
Miniscribe also shipped MFM disks with an ATA adaptor board -- okay, IDE is
exactly that, but these were visibly discrete components -- although I can't
find an example of such a contraption which shipped with a 5.25" MFM disk.
It's likely that the adaptor board would "work" when transplanted onto a
5.25" disk, although getting it to properly handle the different geometry
may be challenging.
Given my failure to find a proper counterexample (not that I seriously
expected to find one), I agree that the Quantum Bigfoot was almost certainly
one of a kind. It was a niche product which only had a few years of
viability, and given that apart from capacity, Bigfoots (Bigfeet?) were
terrible drives, we'd have paid close attention to any competing drives and
would still remember them.
------------------------------
Message: 22
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 22:32:57 +0800
From: Tom Hunter <ccth6600 at gmail.com>
To: jos <jos.dreesen at greenmail.ch>, "General Discussion: On-Topic and
Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: core matt repair
Message-ID:
<CAALEduDbv-ajP8=C2Ut4dY1mcVEqok1dF_gJfoS+sRZb9G7TbA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Hi Jos,
Resoldered how?
The wires are _very_ thin (I guess 0.1 mm or thinner - think of human hair)
and they are covered with some form of high-temperature lacquer which you
would have to remove first. Also the dimensions of all this stuff is
_tiny_. There is just no space to poke anything in to solder a joint.
Your average fine tipped soldering iron would be ridiculously large to even
try.
I wonder if spot welding would work using the tip of a fine needle.
Of course before you can even attempt to repair a broken wire you have to
locate the break.
Best regards
Tom Hunter
On Wed, Jul 21, 2021 at 1:36 PM jos via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
> On 21.07.21 02:15, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote:
> >
> > In general comment to the topic, I have seen planar arrays ("mats") with
> some number of randomly-situated wire splices in them.
> > These splices are in the gaps between bit arrays, not interior to a bit
> array (there isn't enough space between cores).
> > The splices are covered in a tiny dollop of (by appearance) silicon
> putty for insulation.
> >
> I have seen the same, and measured that these splices can turn highohmic.
> I recovered an 8/L coremat by resoldering these splices.
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 23
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 17:19:28 +0200
From: Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Compaq Deskpro boards/hard drives from the late 1990s
Message-ID:
<CAMTenCEFUUcxWmyc6Npmonz12iAyUSP5KaTb-OG34Pc-X2cAoA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
On Wed, 21 Jul 2021 at 16:32, Peter Corlett via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> Not quite answering the question you asked, but optical drives from 15-25
> years ago are 5.25" IDE devices.
If one were inclined to be _excessively_ persnickety, one could say
that they were ATAPI devices, which in turn implies EIDE rather than
plain old IDE, no?
IIRC the original capacity ceiling on IDE was 504MB or something, so I
think the capacity of a CD (~650MB) would make a strictly IDE CD drive
impossible...?
I can't think of anything other than the Bigfoot, no. I didn't know
Compaq favoured them, though...
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lproven at gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven ? Skype: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 ? ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
------------------------------
Message: 24
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 17:33:46 +0200
From: jos <jos.dreesen at greenmail.ch>
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: core matt repair
Message-ID: <26787260-d6e2-ad64-3be0-fabb3960d574 at greenmail.ch>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
On 21.07.21 16:32, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote:
> Hi Jos,
>
> Resoldered how?
These joints are located above the core-mat. I just used my tiniest tip to reheat, no solder added.
These joints were not broken, just highohmic,? several? 100 Ohms . I am still wondering what the exact failure was.
I did not bother removing ( or reapplying ) that laquer.
Jos
------------------------------
Message: 25
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 10:00:44 -0600
From: Grant Taylor <cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net>
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Compaq Deskpro boards/hard drives from the late 1990s
Message-ID:
<9e8a3640-4db7-8bd1-4b99-54b51a7f8037 at spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
On 7/21/21 3:20 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
> I _think_ ISA ones are in more demand these days.
I suspect there are more people restoring ISA systems than PCI systems.
But that's probably a matter of time.
> CD, or CDRW, or DVD, or DVDRW?
I doubt it's likely, but (traditional) WORM drives are not out of the
question. (I'm not counting CDs / DVDs in the /traditional/ WORM mix,
despite many early writable drives being exactly that.)
> You can't tell?! They don't even look similar. Google will give you
> pics in seconds.
Sadly, that might not be enough to discern things. I've seen similar
cases used for a lot of different internal components. The OP (or
someone else on their behalf) is almost certainly going to need to get
more details to share with would be buyers.
> You will need to identify this stuff much more specifically. Makes,
> models, capacities, speeds, etc.
Yep.
> E.g. nobody wants 10base-2 or Thick Ethernet cards much any more. UTP,
> slightly more so: 10base-T, not much, 100base-T somewhat yes.
Um ... that's not true. I just purchased 10Base? cards specifically for
the AUI ports to connect to my 10Base5 / "Thicknet" segment. Depending
on price, I'd probably walk away from a swap meet with more too.
> Plain old CD? Probably not. DVDRW? You might find takers.
It depends. I've talked with a handful of people wanting some sort of
CD-ROM or their retro computers. They prefer the faster IDE drives.
But they would rather have the slower IDE drives than nothing. So I
believe that there is a reasonable chance that CD-ROMs sill have some value.
> Graphics: depends what. Early 3D cards are somewhat wanted.
I still see some value in 2D cards. I'd lay down a $5 bill for a PCI 2D
card like I had years ago. -- If I'm willing to do it, I assume that
there are others that are willing to do it too.
> Tiny IDE hard disks, probably not. CF-card is cheaper, faster and
> more reliable.
It depends on the capacity and price. And /known/ status of the drive.
"For parts"? Probably not much value at all. Maybe for in a lot for
someone else to test. "Known working / passed SpinRite Level 4" much
more likely.
They aren't IDE, but I suspect that drives in IBM PS/2s that were known
to be working would be worth more than the smaller IDE drives. I think
that mostly means ESDI and SCSI.
> It's not worth a lot.
>
> OTOH, those unique Compaq combined 5.25" + 3.5" floppy drives are
> quite sought-after.
#truth
> SCSI drives are quite desirable.
>
> It's probably not worth a _lot_ but maybe a few hundred bucks if
> you are specific and ship anywhere. Remember a lot of collectors are
> in countries where this stuff is very hard to come by, and will pay
> top dollar.
>
> But you need to be willing to be specific, list exact model numbers,
> take photos showing ID labels, and ideally, to _test it_.
Yep.
Though it sounds like the OP wasn't interested in doing this. As such,
I suspect that the OP is probably looking for someone to acquire (large
portions of) the lot and let that buyer test / resell things with
details and shipping to lots of places.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
------------------------------
Message: 26
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 09:27:32 -0700
From: Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com>
To: Liam Proven via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Compaq Deskpro boards/hard drives from the late 1990s
Message-ID: <0e85b7b5-4de1-bf98-e096-145bc1376122 at sydex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
On 7/21/21 8:19 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
> IIRC the original capacity ceiling on IDE was 504MB or something, so I
> think the capacity of a CD (~650MB) would make a strictly IDE CD drive
> impossible...?
>
> I can't think of anything other than the Bigfoot, no. I didn't know
> Compaq favoured them, though...
CDC/Imprimis certainly had ATA half-height 5.25 drives in their Wren II
line--I used them. e.g. 94204 series.
--Chuck
------------------------------
Message: 27
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 12:41:19 -0400
From: Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net>
To: Grant Taylor <cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net>,
"cctalk at classiccmp.org" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Compaq Deskpro boards/hard drives from the late 1990s
Message-ID: <E13C5F2C-7DED-49B4-B0D2-099E60060F5D at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> On Jul 21, 2021, at 12:00 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> On 7/21/21 3:20 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
>> ...
>> E.g. nobody wants 10base-2 or Thick Ethernet cards much any more. UTP, slightly more so: 10base-T, not much, 100base-T somewhat yes.
>
> Um ... that's not true. I just purchased 10Base? cards specifically for the AUI ports to connect to my 10Base5 / "Thicknet" segment. Depending on price, I'd probably walk away from a swap meet with more too.
BTW, you don't need an AUI port to connect to Thicknet. If you have a 10Base2 NIC, you can connect it with a T connector (at the NIC -- no length of coax from T to NIC). Or you can use an N to BNC connector to splice a length of thick to a length of thin cable. All that works fine (subject to the 10Base2 scale limits) since the impedance is 50 ohms in either case.
paul
End of cctalk Digest, Vol 82, Issue 16
**************************************
More information about the cctech
mailing list