cctalk Digest, Vol 38, Issue 16
Peter Allan
petermallan at gmail.com
Sat Nov 18 10:10:07 CST 2017
Thanks Chunk. I am going to see if Manchester University library has any
old documentation that might help.
Cheers
Peter
On 17 November 2017 at 18:00, <cctalk-request at classiccmp.org> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Drive capacity names (Was: WTB: HP-85 16k RAM Module and
> HPIB Floppy Drive (Geoffrey Reed)
> 2. Re: Drive capacity names (Was: WTB: HP-85 16k RAM Module and
> HPIB Floppy Drive (Chuck Guzis)
> 3. Re: Drive capacity names (Was: WTB: HP-85 16k RAM Module and
> HPIB Floppy Drive (Liam Proven)
> 4. Re: Drive capacity names (Was: WTB: HP-85 16k RAM Module and
> HPIB Floppy Drive (Fred Cisin)
> 5. TI NaturalLink Disks and Docs (Jason T)
> 6. Re: HP 9836U processor mystery... (Josh Dersch)
> 7. Re: Playing with HP2640B (CuriousMarc)
> 8. Re: Cases (display) for beloved ISA cards? (CuriousMarc)
> 9. Re: Playing with HP2640B (Christian Corti)
> 10. Re: Playing with HP2640B (David Collins)
> 11. Re: Playing with HP2640B (David Collins)
> 12. Re: Playing with HP2640B (Mattis Lind)
> 13. RE: Playing with HP2640B (Rik Bos)
> 14. DR-DOS (Liam Proven)
> 15. Re: TI NaturalLink Disks and Docs (Jason T)
> 16. Re: DR-DOS (Liam Proven)
> 17. Re: DR-DOS (Liam Proven)
> 18. Re: DR-DOS (william degnan)
> 19. Re: Cases (display) for beloved ISA cards? (Anders Nelson)
> 20. Re: DR-DOS (geneb)
> 21. Re: DR-DOS (Liam Proven)
> 22. Re: DR-DOS (Liam Proven)
> 23. Re: DR-DOS (geneb)
> 24. Re: WTB: HP-85 16k RAM Module and HPIB Floppy Drive
> (Eric Schlaepfer)
> 25. Manchester University Joint System in the 1970s (Peter Allan)
> 26. Re: WTB: HP-85 16k RAM Module and HPIB Floppy Drive (Paul Berger)
> 27. Re: Playing with HP2640B (Christian Corti)
> 28. Re: Manchester University Joint System in the 1970s (Chuck Guzis)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 12:30:08 -0800
> From: Geoffrey Reed <geoffr at zipcon.net>
> To: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com>, "General Discussion: On-Topic and
> Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Drive capacity names (Was: WTB: HP-85 16k RAM Module and
> HPIB Floppy Drive
> Message-ID: <D63332E6.5367F%geoffr at zipcon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
>
>
> On 11/15/17, 9:44 AM, "cctalk on behalf of Fred Cisin via cctalk"
> <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org on behalf of cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> >Can you name another 20 exceptions? (Chuck and Tony probably can)
> >
> >
> >--
> >Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
>
>
> ?Floptical? disks 720 rpm 1.6 Mb/s transfer 1250 TPI and 25MB unformatted
> capacity
>
> LS-120 and LS-240 (which sadly I can?t remember the specs of :(
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 12:51:19 -0800
> From: Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com>
> To: Geoffrey Reed via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Drive capacity names (Was: WTB: HP-85 16k RAM Module and
> HPIB Floppy Drive
> Message-ID: <a5877e73-9b6c-f5fa-afdf-ef59f1f6caa1 at sydex.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> On 11/16/2017 12:30 PM, Geoffrey Reed via cctalk wrote:
>
> > ?Floptical? disks 720 rpm 1.6 Mb/s transfer 1250 TPI and 25MB
> unformatted
> > capacity
> >
> > LS-120 and LS-240 (which sadly I can?t remember the specs of :(
>
> How about the Caleb "it" drive (UHD144):
>
> http://www.obsoletemedia.org/caleb-uhd144/
>
> I've still got a stack of those drives and media.
>
> Or the DTC "TakeTen" drive (got the drive but no media), or the Qume
> Hyperflex drive or the Kodak/Drivetec floppy drives or the DTC TeamMate
> for Apple...
>
> The list is very long indeed.
>
> --Chuck
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 23:28:19 +0100
> From: Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com>
> To: Geoffrey Reed <geoffr at zipcon.net>, "General Discussion: On-Topic
> and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Drive capacity names (Was: WTB: HP-85 16k RAM Module and
> HPIB Floppy Drive
> Message-ID:
> <CAMTenCE8EoxJxw_W_wBz+53Hfp752Ji2+kw60X8LKxoecvon3A@
> mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> On 16 November 2017 at 21:30, Geoffrey Reed via cctalk
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > ?Floptical? disks 720 rpm 1.6 Mb/s transfer 1250 TPI and 25MB
> unformatted
> > capacity
>
> Just FYI, your quote marks render on Linux as superscript 2s.
>
> Using an Apple device? You might want to turn off smart quotes...
>
> https://www.jordanmerrick.com/posts/ios-11-smart-punctuation/
>
> http://appleinsider.com/articles/17/09/26/tips-turn-
> off-ios-11-smart-punctuation-to-avoid-data-entry-problems
>
> --
> Liam Proven ? Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
> Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lproven at gmail.com
> Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven ? Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven
> UK: +44 7939-087884 ? ?R/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 15:27:53 -0800 (PST)
> From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com>
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Drive capacity names (Was: WTB: HP-85 16k RAM Module and
> HPIB Floppy Drive
> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1711161437490.4440 at shell.lmi.net>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> >>> No, the 9122C has two high-density, two-sided 80 cylinder drives. A
> drive
> >>> has no capacity, this is the function of the on-disk format.
> >>> ;-)
> >>
> >> "high-density" is even more meaningless than referring to them by their
> >> capacity in a given format. It is a BOGUS marketing term!
>
> On Thu, 16 Nov 2017, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:
> > Fred, you should know by now that you don't need to tell *me* the correct
> > definitions and terms.
>
> I know that, but I was addressing the entire group with my rant, and not
> everybody is as closely familiar with these details as you are.
>
> > And with "high-density", I didn't mean the media capacity but the analog
> > recording aspects like coercivity, write current, frequency and so on.
>
> Actually, when speaking about the MEDIA, it is much easier to create a
> name that is both accurate and unambiguous.
> For example, with 5.25" disks, we have "5.25 inch with 300 Oersted" and
> "5.25 inch with 600 Oersted".
> Of course, if somebody wants to be difficult, there are still variant
> forms, including both 10 and 16 sector hard-sectored, Amlyn 600 Oersted
> with special cutouts for the disk changer, Twiggy, no-notch disks for some
> minor tamper resistance in software distribution, etc.
>
> >> Unformatted capacity would be a more correct nomenclature, although ...
> > Unformatted capacity doesn't tell you much without reference to the
> recording
> > layout, i.e. no. of tracks, modulation, frequency and so on.
>
> True.
>
> >> Some specifications:
> >> 5.25" MFM "High Density" was 360 RPM at 500,000 bits per second. (about
> 1M
> >> unformatted per side)
> >
> > What about 5?" FM "High Density" at 360 RPM?
>
> By "Some specifications", I meant specifications of SOME examples of the
> most common form of each size. I was absolutely not intending it to be
> an exhaustive, comprehensive list of all possibilities.
>
>
> > The Amiga (more exactly, the "HD" Chinon FZ-357A drives used in Amigas)
> > switched to 150 RPM to keep the raw bit rate at 250kbits/s.
>
> THAT is exactly what I was including as examples in my later "exceptions"
> list. Although a different disk size, that is the same engineering kludge
> as the Weltec 5.25" 180RPM drive.
>
> >> 3.5" MFM "ED" (vertical recording?/barrium ferrite) were 300 RPM at
> >> 1,000,000 bits per second. (2M unformatted per side) NeXT referred to
> >> theirs by the unformatted capacity: 4M, further confusing their users.
> > What about FM?
>
> Again, just listing examples of most common, NOT intending it as a list of
> all possibilities that were theoretically possible. I have never seen an
> ED disk recorded FM, and do not believe that there was ever a commercial
> system that used that. If you know of one, please give us the details!
>
>
> >> Can you name another 20 exceptions? (Chuck and Tony probably can)
> >
> > Do you want me to start with things like 100tpi drives, GCR, M?FM,
> > hard-sectored and other crazy formats?
>
> It can be a very long list. I was trying to stick with ones that were
> very close to the main branch of our "current" evolutionary tree, but
> there isn't a clear boundary. I estimate that there were approximately
> 2500 different microcomputer floppy disk formats, with a large portion of
> those being variant forms, not just different choices of number and size
> of sectors, directory location and structure, etc.
> I implemented just over 400 formats in XenoCopy that were straight-forward
> to handle with IBM PC hardware. Those are not all that could have been
> implemented, nor does it deny the existence of many variants, or
> completely different ones that are not feasable with PC.
>
> > Just accept that I am not as dumb as you may think.
>
> I have NEVER thought that you were dumb. Everything that I have seen
> of your posts has been competent and well-informed. But, I don't think
> that you follow what I was attempting to convey.
>
> I wanted to:
> 1) rant about marketing creating terminology, including "double density"
> and "high density". And creating a new definition of Megabyte (1,024,000)
> for the "1.44M" format (1,474,560 bytes/1.40625Mebibytes)
>
> 2) state my opinion that using the specific one that comprises at least
> 75%? of the use of a given configuration as the name for that
> configuration creates a name that is admittedly inaccurate, and fraught
> with exceptions, nevertheless relatively unambiguous, at least to the
> extent that purchases will usually be usable.
>
> If I buy "360K diskette", it will usually be the 300 Oersted 5.25 inch,
> and be the closest of what is available to buy for 87.5K TRS80,
> Apple2, PET, Osborne, PC 160K/180K/320K/360K, DEC Rainbow, Canon AS100,
> Elcompco, Eagle, Otrona, etc.
> Yes, there were people who used 41 or 42 tracks of a 40 track drive, but I
> consider those to be "corner cases", to be considered as alterations, not
> as the main form.
> Admittedly, there were differences in testing between SSSD, DSSD, DSSD,
> DSDD, and 48tpi v 96tpi marketing of disks with the same chmical
> formulation. Purchasing diskettes now for something such as a DEC
> Rainbow, I would settle for the 360K testing.
>
> If I buy "720K 3.5 inch diskette", I expect to receive 600 Oersted 3.5"
>
> If I buy "1.44M Diskette", I expect to receive a "HD" 3.5 inch diskette,
> with about 720 to 780 Oersted.
>
>
> BUT, as you've pointed out, when we refer to the DRIVE, we can't really be
> certain that it won't be misinterpreted unless we list every spec that we
> expect it to conform to. Or order by manufacturers model number.
> Shugart/Matsushita 455/465/475
> Tandon TM100-2/TM100-4
> Teac 55B, 55F, 55G, 55FG, etc.
> (EXAMPLES. NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS A "complete" LIST)
>
> BTW, Tandon made a 100tpi drive (TM100-4M) for Micropolis compatability,
> but many/most? of those are mislabelled "TM100-4" (missing that critical
> 'M' modifier!)
>
> --
> Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 21:16:08 -0600
> From: Jason T <silent700 at gmail.com>
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: TI NaturalLink Disks and Docs
> Message-ID:
> <CAEfH1SGBOxKUXW3rQmNGaLxsnVDZ3=D-Pe-+A9NTLRFtjJ+itg at mail.
> gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> I have imaged disks and scanned docs for an old software authoring
> tool from Texas Instruments, "NaturalLink". It runs on early IBM PCs
> and was included with some docs I was given for the TI Professional
> Computer, an almost-PC clone. There are a number of ads and articles
> about NaturalLink in the various trade mags available via Google
> Books.
>
> The docs are here:
>
> http://chiclassiccomp.org/docs/index.php?dir=%2Fcomputing%2FTI/NaturalLink
>
> And the disk images are here:
>
> http://nocarrier.net/archive/floppy_images/PC/TI/NaturalLink/
>
> Regular 360k MS-DOS images. I haven't tried them in DOSBox yet but
> it'll probably run there.
>
> I have the original manuals, along with some other Professional
> Computer manuals that were already on Bitsavers, free for shipping if
> anyone wants them. They're not light. I can include the NaturalLink
> disks as well, otherwise those will stay in my library. Unfortunately
> I don't have any of the (special format) OS media for the
> Professional.
>
> Enjoy!
>
> -j
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 20:11:57 -0800
> From: Josh Dersch <derschjo at gmail.com>
> Cc: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: HP 9836U processor mystery...
> Message-ID:
> <CADBZjLZ9AeUWiQhuo_-F+xZjPA=p9De=MDG3n+km0tRWWyTAfQ at mail.
> gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 8:59 PM, Tony Duell <ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 4:52 AM, Josh Dersch via cctalk
> > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > > I'm curious if other people out there with 9836U's can confirm whether
> > their
> > > machine has a 68000 or a 68010 in it, I'd just like to settle the
> > internet
> > > discrepancy once and for all :).
> >
> > Mine identifies the CPU as a 68010 in the power-on diagnostic. But from
> > what
> > I remember the PGA socket could also take a 68012 (with extra address
> pins
> > brought out). I don't have such a chip, so no idea what it would identify
> > as.
> >
>
> I picked up a 68012 (cheap) and stuck in in the 9836U this evening. It
> works, and is identified as a 68012 during power-up diagnostics.
>
> So now we know. Now what am I gonna do with all that address space? :)
>
> - Josh
>
>
>
> >
> > -tony
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 23:12:54 -0800
> From: CuriousMarc <curiousmarc3 at gmail.com>
> To: Mattis Lind <mattislind at gmail.com>, "General Discussion: On-Topic
> and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Playing with HP2640B
> Message-ID: <C27C94AA-8CEB-4330-9D51-760B18A13CB1 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> What did you do for the screen mold? Hot wire method to separate CRT from
> implosion window? Put the CRT in a hot water bath? Chip at the glue?
> Marc
>
>
>
> On Nov 15, 2017, at 11:48 AM, Mattis Lind via cctalk <
> cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> I have been working on a HP 2640B terminal. It was mostly about fixing the
> "screen mold" problem and cleaning up the liquids that had been seeping out
> from the screen down into the bottom.
>
> The small coaxial wire that connects the 4.9152 MHz clock signal form the
> power supply (never seen a crystal controlled SMPSU before!) to the
> backplane was broken off, but after fixing that the terminal worked fine.
> Just needed some adjustment to the brightness.
>
> With the correct terminfo installed it worked quite well as a serial
> terminal to a Linux box.
>
> Then I tried the short 8008 programs that Christian Corti pointed to
>
> http://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/dev_en/hp2644/diag.html
>
> and
>
> ftp://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/hp/hp2644
>
> I tried both a couple of times. The terminal enter the LOADER mode but just
> hangs completely at the end. I tried different baudrates but no difference.
>
> The selftest STATUS line tell me 40<802 which should indicate that there
> are 4k memory in the terminal. However there should be 5k since there is
> one 4k board and one combined control store and 1 k RAM board. Maybe there
> is a fault in the 1k SRAM? The terminal doesn't complain though.
>
> Regardless, the programs listed either starts at adress 30000 or 36000
> which should then be within the available space.
>
> The question is, should these program work for the HP2640B as well? It has
> a 8008 but my guess is that the firmware is different from the 2644. What
> is the joint experience regarding this? Has anyone ran these small programs
> above on a HP2640B?
>
> The HP 2640B firmware consists of four EA 4900 ROM chips which annoyingly
> are not anything like normal EPROMs. So dumping will need special
> considerations.
>
> Has anyone dumped the HP 2640B firmware already? I didn't find it on
> bitsavers.
>
> /Mattis
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 23:25:43 -0800
> From: CuriousMarc <curiousmarc3 at gmail.com>
> To: Ethan via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Cases (display) for beloved ISA cards?
> Message-ID: <DCE4C2E5-58CF-4CEF-87F0-B0B11833D622 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I use shadow boxes from Michael's to display my boards. They have many
> kinds
> http://www.michaels.com/-black-shadowbox-studio-decor/
> M10322044.html?dwvar_M10322044_color=Black
> Marc
>
>
>
> On Nov 16, 2017, at 8:04 AM, Ethan via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> wrote:
>
> This message has no content.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 10:09:58 +0100 (CET)
> From: Christian Corti <cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de>
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Playing with HP2640B
> Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1711170954380.25118 at linuxserv.home>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> On Thu, 16 Nov 2017, CuriousMarc wrote:
> > What did you do for the screen mold? Hot wire method to separate CRT
> > from implosion window? Put the CRT in a hot water bath? Chip at the
> > glue? Marc
>
> What we did on one of our 2645 terminals was the hot wire method. We then
> attached the "implosion" window to the inner of the case.
>
> BTW is it really an implosion protection? I don't think so because since
> the 60s, practically all CRTs have a so-called "integral implosion
> protection" (thick glass on the front and metal band around the edge). I
> think it is just an anti-glare filter glass. OTOH American CRTs may be
> completely different in this aspect compared to European ones.
>
> Christian
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 20:10:25 +1100
> From: David Collins <davidkcollins2 at gmail.com>
> To: CuriousMarc <curiousmarc3 at gmail.com>, "General Discussion:
> On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Playing with HP2640B
> Message-ID: <45A317C7-55D2-49BC-892D-460322C6EDB8 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Marc, in addition to Mattis? forthcoming reply, my recent experience with
> a moldy 2624A was that the hot wire method was very poor. Too hard to get
> the wire in, didn?t melt the ?glue? very well, smelly. Gave up when the
> wire broke.
>
> What worked best for me was a flat blade screwdriver that was small enough
> to sit sideways in the gap between the front glass and the tube. I sliced
> sections of the glue and picked them out with a hook. I also squirted in a
> combination of RP7 and household cleaner but not sure either did anything
> other than lubricate the surfaces - they may have helped lift the glue a
> bit.
>
> My ?glue? was like a layer of silicon rubber which hung on for as long as
> possible but I got it all off without any damage.
>
> I replaced the front glass and held it on with a bead of black silicon
> rubber used for shower glass. I spaced it from the tube with pieces of wire
> around the edges and pulled them out when the silicon dried.
>
> Worked well for me but keen to hear how Mattis went.
>
> I didn?t try the hot water soak but it would probably help.
>
> David Collins
>
>
> > On 17 Nov 2017, at 6:12 pm, CuriousMarc via cctalk <
> cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > What did you do for the screen mold? Hot wire method to separate CRT
> from implosion window? Put the CRT in a hot water bath? Chip at the glue?
> > Marc
> >
> >
> >
> > On Nov 15, 2017, at 11:48 AM, Mattis Lind via cctalk <
> cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > I have been working on a HP 2640B terminal. It was mostly about fixing
> the
> > "screen mold" problem and cleaning up the liquids that had been seeping
> out
> > from the screen down into the bottom.
> >
> > The small coaxial wire that connects the 4.9152 MHz clock signal form the
> > power supply (never seen a crystal controlled SMPSU before!) to the
> > backplane was broken off, but after fixing that the terminal worked fine.
> > Just needed some adjustment to the brightness.
> >
> > With the correct terminfo installed it worked quite well as a serial
> > terminal to a Linux box.
> >
> > Then I tried the short 8008 programs that Christian Corti pointed to
> >
> > http://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/
> dev_en/hp2644/diag.html
> >
> > and
> >
> > ftp://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/hp/hp2644
> >
> > I tried both a couple of times. The terminal enter the LOADER mode but
> just
> > hangs completely at the end. I tried different baudrates but no
> difference.
> >
> > The selftest STATUS line tell me 40<802 which should indicate that there
> > are 4k memory in the terminal. However there should be 5k since there is
> > one 4k board and one combined control store and 1 k RAM board. Maybe
> there
> > is a fault in the 1k SRAM? The terminal doesn't complain though.
> >
> > Regardless, the programs listed either starts at adress 30000 or 36000
> > which should then be within the available space.
> >
> > The question is, should these program work for the HP2640B as well? It
> has
> > a 8008 but my guess is that the firmware is different from the 2644. What
> > is the joint experience regarding this? Has anyone ran these small
> programs
> > above on a HP2640B?
> >
> > The HP 2640B firmware consists of four EA 4900 ROM chips which annoyingly
> > are not anything like normal EPROMs. So dumping will need special
> > considerations.
> >
> > Has anyone dumped the HP 2640B firmware already? I didn't find it on
> > bitsavers.
> >
> > /Mattis
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 20:13:00 +1100
> From: David Collins <davidkcollins2 at gmail.com>
> To: Christian Corti <cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de>, "General
> Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Playing with HP2640B
> Message-ID: <555C99B3-D2B1-4D83-97E7-025672F96790 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Christian do you know the gauge of the wire you used ? And the current?
>
> Maybe I should try that approach again!
>
> David Collins
>
>
> > On 17 Nov 2017, at 8:09 pm, Christian Corti via cctalk <
> cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, 16 Nov 2017, CuriousMarc wrote:
> >> What did you do for the screen mold? Hot wire method to separate CRT
> from implosion window? Put the CRT in a hot water bath? Chip at the glue?
> Marc
> >
> > What we did on one of our 2645 terminals was the hot wire method. We
> then attached the "implosion" window to the inner of the case.
> >
> > BTW is it really an implosion protection? I don't think so because since
> the 60s, practically all CRTs have a so-called "integral implosion
> protection" (thick glass on the front and metal band around the edge). I
> think it is just an anti-glare filter glass. OTOH American CRTs may be
> completely different in this aspect compared to European ones.
> >
> > Christian
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 11:52:47 +0100
> From: Mattis Lind <mattislind at gmail.com>
> To: David Collins <davidkcollins2 at gmail.com>, "General Discussion:
> On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Playing with HP2640B
> Message-ID:
> <CABr82SJ6oWNN7Ga6LJ=5LYfoZj3EYStYDrFatZGBXBhoSCp5Gw at mail.
> gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> The screen on my HP2640 had degenerated quite far. It was only a spot in
> the middle, 2 by 4 inch, that still attached the glass to the CRT. I used a
> thin fish fillet knife to dig through the remaining glue.
>
> Before
>
> https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23622163_10155696765784985_
> 6518064439030378363_n.jpg?oh=44cbf7f7f00d6e25155c208124e20a38&oe=5AA7349D
>
> The result after:
>
> https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23621971_10155696757184985_
> 1959733265676657917_n.jpg?oh=36a20689c0fb5a16de7fc4df138a40e0&oe=5A9993B1
>
>
> Anyhow, I researched the glue a bit. The glue is, as far as I understand,
> PVAc (PolyVinylAcetate, sometimes also known as PVA). PVAc is not soluble
> in water. It takes quite high temperature to melt it. However PVAc is
> soluble in many esters. I bought some Butylacetate. It dissolves sample
> bits of glue from HP2640 quite well and rapidly. Butylacetate has quite
> high boiling temperature (about 120 degrees centigrade) and thus does not
> evaporate that quickly. So my idea is now to test on a 2645 screen or VR201
> screen by adding some butylacetate and seal with some thin plastic wrap
> foil and let it dissolve a bit. Then use the fish fillet knife again and
> repeat the process.
>
> /Mattis
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 13:12:29 +0100
> From: "Rik Bos" <hp-fix at xs4all.nl>
> To: "'Mattis Lind'" <mattislind at gmail.com>, "'General Discussion:
> On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: RE: Playing with HP2640B
> Message-ID: <004401d35f9d$57dcf900$0796eb00$@xs4all.nl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I did it by heating the crt to about 50-60 degrees celsius and used a
> putty-knife.
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/hp-fix/albums/72157689357633754
> The photos are from a Philips P2000M system but I did it the same way with
> my 264X terminals and 9845's systems.
> It takes about half an hour to heat and separate the screen from the crt .
>
> -Rik
>
> > The screen on my HP2640 had degenerated quite far. It was only a spot in
> the
> > middle, 2 by 4 inch, that still attached the glass to the CRT. I used a
> thin fish fillet
> > knife to dig through the remaining glue.
> >
> > Before
> >
> > https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-
> > 9/23622163_10155696765784985_6518064439030378363_n.jpg?oh=44cbf7f7f
> > 00d6e25155c208124e20a38&oe=5AA7349D
> >
> > The result after:
> >
> > https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-
> > 9/23621971_10155696757184985_1959733265676657917_n.jpg?oh=36a20689
> > c0fb5a16de7fc4df138a40e0&oe=5A9993B1
> >
> >
> > Anyhow, I researched the glue a bit. The glue is, as far as I
> understand, PVAc
> > (PolyVinylAcetate, sometimes also known as PVA). PVAc is not soluble in
> water.
> > It takes quite high temperature to melt it. However PVAc is soluble in
> many
> > esters. I bought some Butylacetate. It dissolves sample bits of glue
> from HP2640
> > quite well and rapidly. Butylacetate has quite high boiling temperature
> (about
> > 120 degrees centigrade) and thus does not evaporate that quickly. So my
> idea is
> > now to test on a 2645 screen or VR201 screen by adding some butylacetate
> and
> > seal with some thin plastic wrap foil and let it dissolve a bit. Then
> use the fish
> > fillet knife again and repeat the process.
> >
> > /Mattis
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 14:30:20 +0100
> From: Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com>
> To: "Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: DR-DOS
> Message-ID:
> <CAMTenCEZycvAXZbfE8Zcz-_CE6Z70D5OTdGLMkHuDpBGJvZutQ@
> mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> I hope this is vintage enough.
>
> I've been playing around some more with my projects to create VMs /
> bootable USB keys with PC DOS 7.1 and DR-DOS.
>
> Right now I'm focusing on DR-DOS 7.1 and the DR OpenDOS Enhancement
> Project, because that's FOSS and AFAICS it can be redistributed, which
> I can't with DR-DOS 7.02/7.03/7.04/7.05 or DR-DOS 8/8.1, which were
> commercially licensed.
>
> I found a download of the last build released:
>
> https://archiveos.org/drdos/
>
> First, it's the wrong size. VirtualBox can't mount it. VMware can.
>
> I truncated it to exactly 2880 sectors using the advice from ``jleg094''
> here:
>
> https://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=39141
>
> VBox mounts that. But it won't boot, nor in VMware -- it just
> displays 2 dots and freezes.
>
> Embarrassingly late in the troubleshooting process, I've found why.
>
> I didn't think to check what was on the image! Foolish of me.
>
> I mounted it on a pre-booted VM and looked, and it's blank! There's
> nothing in the image at all.
>
> So, I mounted the empty image file as a loop device, copied the boot
> files in there and then the rest of the files in the distro archive.
>
> And lo, it works! It boots my VM just fine, and it's now running 7.01-08.
>
> All I need to do now is work out how to make the hard disk bootable,
> and I'm in business.
>
> The DR-DOS 7 SYS command won't do it, as the files aren't named
> IBMBIOS.COM and IBMSYS.COM -- they're DRBIO.SYS and DRSYS.SYS.
>
> I copied them to the expected names. SYS completes but the disk won't boot.
>
> Next step will be to try with Norton Disk Doctor.
>
> Anyway, if anyone wants a bootable diskette image with DR-DOS 7.01-08,
> complete with FAT32 support -- apparently it can even boot from it --
> let me know.
>
> --
> Liam Proven ? Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
> Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lproven at gmail.com
> Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven ? Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven
> UK: +44 7939-087884 ? ?R/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 08:28:21 -0600
> From: Jason T <silent700 at gmail.com>
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: TI NaturalLink Disks and Docs
> Message-ID:
> <CAEfH1SFfc8ne599yLNgS2NJ4pS3TF_mba0CxZpMXuFXbyx2fEg at mail.
> gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> On Nov 16, 2017 21:16, "Jason T" <silent700 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I have the original manuals, along with some other Professional
> Computer manuals that were already on Bitsavers, free for shipping if
> anyone wants them. They're not light.
>
>
> Oops, forgot to mention location. I'm in the USA, near Chicago.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 16:10:21 +0100
> From: Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com>
> To: "Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: DR-DOS
> Message-ID:
> <CAMTenCFFB4RK7vJGqR=mupppQpwHPiMbuehL-BX_XYG5tJfOeg at mail.
> gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Might be more helpful to include downloads!
>
> I'm still working on VMs, but I know have bootable diskette images of
> both. To the best of my knowledge, this is the first time either has
> been made available.
>
> DR-DOS 7.08 is here:
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/cz8nrdv7h4sgr6o/drdep7018.zip?dl=0
>
> You'll need the rest of DR-DOS 7.01 to install a complete OS but
> that's widely available.
>
> A bootable PC DOS 7.1 diskette image is here:
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zsujtvp0gs44qcx/PCDOS71.vfd?dl=0
>
> This is a VirtualBox disk image, containing the PC-DOS 7.1 files from
> the IBM ServerGuide Scripting Toolkit, as made available by IBM and
> described here:
>
> http://toogam.com/software/archive/opsys/dos/ibmpcdos/getpcd71.htm
>
> If you get that first, AIUI that gives you a licence to a personal-use
> copy. I have not modified these files in any way except to combine the
> separately-downloadable files and the boot disk image, and to remove
> any non-PC DOS files from the disk image.
>
> Again, the rest of the OS must be taken from a copy of PC DOS 7.01.
> That too is widely available.
>
> Feedback welcomed.
>
> --
> Liam Proven ? Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
> Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lproven at gmail.com
> Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven ? Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven
> UK: +44 7939-087884 ? ?R/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 16:12:08 +0100
> From: Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com>
> To: "Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: DR-DOS
> Message-ID:
> <CAMTenCH-N2WVbDffCsAdHixyMrm+cw1WBB=OqVoiR3WL7F=yJw at mail.
> gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> It is *not* my day. I don't know how a copy-and-paste of some plain
> text magically acquired attachments; that was not intentional. My
> apologies.
>
> --
> Liam Proven ? Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
> Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lproven at gmail.com
> Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven ? Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven
> UK: +44 7939-087884 ? ?R/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 10:12:55 -0500
> From: william degnan <billdegnan at gmail.com>
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>, Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: DR-DOS
> Message-ID:
> <CABGJBueQSQ2q_9P5qaX=iX_nuA0+8YCXfWY1hUc=qGwJzGs2Yg at mail.
> gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> I have a few original Dr dos disks. Versions 5, 6, 7. Would these help if
> I am imaged and uploaded to my site?
>
> Bill Degnan
> twitter: billdeg
> vintagecomputer.net
> On Nov 17, 2017 10:10 AM, "Liam Proven via cctalk" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Might be more helpful to include downloads!
> >
> > I'm still working on VMs, but I know have bootable diskette images of
> > both. To the best of my knowledge, this is the first time either has
> > been made available.
> >
> > DR-DOS 7.08 is here:
> >
> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/cz8nrdv7h4sgr6o/drdep7018.zip?dl=0
> >
> > You'll need the rest of DR-DOS 7.01 to install a complete OS but
> > that's widely available.
> >
> > A bootable PC DOS 7.1 diskette image is here:
> >
> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/zsujtvp0gs44qcx/PCDOS71.vfd?dl=0
> >
> > This is a VirtualBox disk image, containing the PC-DOS 7.1 files from
> > the IBM ServerGuide Scripting Toolkit, as made available by IBM and
> > described here:
> >
> > http://toogam.com/software/archive/opsys/dos/ibmpcdos/getpcd71.htm
> >
> > If you get that first, AIUI that gives you a licence to a personal-use
> > copy. I have not modified these files in any way except to combine the
> > separately-downloadable files and the boot disk image, and to remove
> > any non-PC DOS files from the disk image.
> >
> > Again, the rest of the OS must be taken from a copy of PC DOS 7.01.
> > That too is widely available.
> >
> > Feedback welcomed.
> >
> > --
> > Liam Proven ? Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
> > Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lproven at gmail.com
> > Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven ? Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven
> > UK: +44 7939-087884 ? ?R/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 10:35:13 -0500
> From: Anders Nelson <anders.k.nelson at gmail.com>
> To: CuriousMarc <curiousmarc3 at gmail.com>, "General Discussion:
> On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Cases (display) for beloved ISA cards?
> Message-ID:
> <CAJ2mpAg1Vwn1+cKZ2znQqu7U97k1kwViyc3L+Bj+
> KnTcEJa6pg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> I mounted a core memory plane in a shadowbox from Target and used a large
> paperclip cut into sections as the mount hardware. Folded over and
> hot-glued one end to the read of the shadowbox backing, placed the memory
> plane at the desired height and folded over the other end of the paperclip
> section. I also put a piece of heatshrink tubing on the paperclip end that
> contacted the memory plane soas not to scratch it.
>
> Pictures: https://photos.app.goo.gl/dzSX21lOC34MaJxm2
>
> =]
>
> --
> Anders Nelson
>
> +1 (517) 775-6129
>
> www.erogear.com
>
> On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 2:25 AM, CuriousMarc via cctalk <
> cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > I use shadow boxes from Michael's to display my boards. They have many
> > kinds
> > http://www.michaels.com/-black-shadowbox-studio-decor/
> > M10322044.html?dwvar_M10322044_color=Black
> > Marc
> >
> >
> >
> > On Nov 16, 2017, at 8:04 AM, Ethan via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > This message has no content.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 07:44:16 -0800 (PST)
> From: geneb <geneb at deltasoft.com>
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: DR-DOS
> Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.03.1711170743080.30810 at deltasoft.com>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> On Fri, 17 Nov 2017, william degnan via cctalk wrote:
>
> > I have a few original Dr dos disks. Versions 5, 6, 7. Would these help
> if
> > I am imaged and uploaded to my site?
> >
>
> Liam, if you need me to I can build a full distro of OpenDOS 7 - I've got
> a machine that I can build the original sources on.
>
> g.
>
> --
> Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
> http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
> http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
> Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
>
> ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
> A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
> http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 16:52:08 +0100
> From: Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com>
> To: william degnan <billdegnan at gmail.com>
> Cc: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: DR-DOS
> Message-ID:
> <CAMTenCEnjvFRMv6899eBOZBVcmCSkYQA0K9gcF+Ae0BDLTNnMw at mail.
> gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> On 17 November 2017 at 16:12, william degnan <billdegnan at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I have a few original Dr dos disks. Versions 5, 6, 7. Would these help
> if
> > I am imaged and uploaded to my site?
>
> What I'd suggest is checking what's there first. :-)
>
> I have DR-DOS 6, from VetusWare. There's a copy on WinWorld but it's
> some homemade disks, lacking an installer, IIRC.
>
> I have physical media from the early 1990s somewhere!
>
> I have DR-DOS 7.01/02/03/04/05/8.0/8.1 mostly from WinWorld .
>
> I own an original open source release of 7.01, including sources,
> direct from Caldera, on CD. This is from before they changed their
> mind and back-pedalled.
>
> I have a full boxed copy of PC DOS 7. It was distributed with
> Microsoft Virtual PC, which itself is a free download now. So the VM
> is out there and freely available.
>
> My VM is built from the free download version, with ViewMax taken from
> the download of DR DOS 6.
>
> I have a working VM of PC DOS 7.1 but I'm still working on that. I
> don't currently have a bootable USB of it -- making new bootable
> volumes is non-trivial. It's not as simple as SYS or FORMAT /S, alas.
> Neither works. I don't think it was meant to, TBH. Ditto the later OEM
> releases of DR DOS 7.04/05 -- these were only on Disk Manager and
> PartitionMagic boot disks, AFAIK. The whole OS was not updated.
>
> --
> Liam Proven ? Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
> Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lproven at gmail.com
> Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven ? Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven
> UK: +44 7939-087884 ? ?R/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 17:03:25 +0100
> From: Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com>
> To: geneb <geneb at deltasoft.com>, "General Discussion: On-Topic and
> Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: DR-DOS
> Message-ID:
> <CAMTenCFo9R+EHj9PxF-9xgFikXZQ1MdAyVaT37diA7GEmzT9M
> w at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> On 17 November 2017 at 16:44, geneb via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > Liam, if you need me to I can build a full distro of OpenDOS 7 - I've
> got a
> > machine that I can build the original sources on.
>
> Thanks!
>
> For now, I'm trying to avoid building anything. I believe that the
> build process is horribly complex -- I can find the link to a
> description of the horrors somewhere. Something like 9 different
> compilers are apparently used.
>
> So I hope not to need that, but appreciate the offer!
>
> What I am planning to do is combine the released boot files for PC-DOS
> 7.1 and DR-DOS 7.01-8, both with FAT32 and LBA support, with the rest
> of the released OSes of both, to make something as complete as
> possible.
>
> My plan is then to add on top of that a graphical shell -- DOSSHELL
> for PC DOS, ViewMax for DR DOS.
>
> And then add some useful shareware/freeware utilities and apps, to
> make a complete useful working environment, for example able to boot
> off a USB stick for a distraction-free, non-Internet-capable, writing
> tool. There seems to be considerable interest in such things these
> days, and of course, the problem with apps that provide
> distraction-free clean-screen writing/editing environments is that you
> can always just switch apps to something else.
>
> I have DESQview and DESQview/X running in a VM, but not on bare metal.
> QEMM seems to have problems on 21st century PC hardware, which is
> perhaps unsurprising.
>
> On one of my own Lenovo notebooks, I have a bootable partition with PC
> DOS 7.01, MS Word 6, WordPerfect 6.2, Norton Utilities and some other
> tools. With power management, but not networking or anything. This
> works for me, but they can't be distributed; they're licensed tools.
>
> MS Word 5.5 is a free download, though. I was planning to add tools
> such as PC Write, PC Outline, As-Easy-As, WordPerfect Editor, a Norton
> Commander clone -- stuff that _is_ distributable.
>
> I also need to add a current DOS antivirus, unfortunately. I think
> there still are some.
>
> The theory is to produce something functionally rich that runs in a VM
> -- because then I know the hardware environment and can configure
> things for it. And something much less functionally-rich that can boot
> and run off a USB stick on almost any hardware.
>
> DR-DOS should be re-distributable. PC DOS, I fear not, at least not
> fully legitimately. But my download diskette image contains nothing
> that IBM itself currently does not offer for free unrestricted
> download. I'm hoping that the company will tolerate that, at least.
>
> --
> Liam Proven ? Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
> Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lproven at gmail.com
> Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven ? Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven
> UK: +44 7939-087884 ? ?R/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 23
> Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 08:20:06 -0800 (PST)
> From: geneb <geneb at deltasoft.com>
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: DR-DOS
> Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.03.1711170817380.32638 at deltasoft.com>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> On Fri, 17 Nov 2017, Liam Proven wrote:
>
> > On 17 November 2017 at 16:44, geneb via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Liam, if you need me to I can build a full distro of OpenDOS 7 - I've
> got a
> >> machine that I can build the original sources on.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > For now, I'm trying to avoid building anything. I believe that the
> > build process is horribly complex -- I can find the link to a
> > description of the horrors somewhere. Something like 9 different
> > compilers are apparently used.
> >
> If you've got the same MRS disc that Roger sent me, you've got the whole
> build environment already. You can kick it off with a single command.
> The only caveat is that you need to boot into OpenDOS/DR-DOS in order to
> get enough free lower RAM to run the build process.
>
> g.
>
> --
> Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
> http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
> http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
> Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
>
> ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 24
> Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 09:04:07 -0800
> From: Eric Schlaepfer <schlae at gmail.com>
> To: Eric Smith <spacewar at gmail.com>
> Cc: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: WTB: HP-85 16k RAM Module and HPIB Floppy Drive
> Message-ID:
> <CAJEzEZGKGL0Yh8LuLnAVEBQmXWbY_3MjwFN6hx42bEDGvQNc5Q at mail.
> gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Check your email. How can you tell if it uses a 600 RPM mechanism or not?
>
> On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 3:17 AM, Eric Smith <spacewar at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Eric,
> >
> > It's not urgent, but when you have a chance, could you dump the 9122C
> > ROM(s) and take high resolution photos of the controller board?
> >
> > Since it does HD, I suspect it probably does not use a 600 RPM mechanism.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Eric
> >
> >
> > On Nov 15, 2017 17:45, "Eric Schlaepfer via cctalk" <
> cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> It'd be interesting to find out how well that PRM-85 works. I've laid
> out
> >> a
> >> board for a rough equivalent but I haven't fabbed it out. It may be
> >> cheaper
> >> for me to buy that instead.
> >>
> >> I've also got a 9122C but I don't have the mass storage ROM so I can't
> use
> >> it with my 85. Right now I'm using it with my 9000 series 300.
> >>
> >> On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 8:26 PM, Mark J. Blair via cctalk <
> >> cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > On Nov 14, 2017, at 20:11, Ed Sharpe via cctalk <
> >> cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> >> > wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > wondervifcthec9122 drives,will work on 85?
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > I think I can guess what you meant to say there... :)
> >> >
> >> > I?ve ordered a PRM-85 (a modern reprogrammable ROM drawer replacement)
> >> > which includes the HP-85B version of the Mass Storage ROM, and the
> >> Extended
> >> > Mass Storage ROM. Based on what I have read, I think that should let
> my
> >> A
> >> > model use the newer 9122C drive, and other drives using either the
> >> Amigo or
> >> > SS-80 protocols.
> >> >
> >> > I?d like to get the 9122C mostly because I have a much easier time
> >> finding
> >> > 1.44M media than the older double density media. eBay and I don?t
> talk,
> >> so
> >> > that limits my options a bit. If I had easy access to lots of 3.5? DD
> >> > media, then I would consider getting one of the more plentiful (?)
> other
> >> > 3.5? HPIB floppy drives.
> >> >
> >>
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 25
> Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 17:24:00 +0000
> From: Peter Allan <petermallan at gmail.com>
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
> Subject: Manchester University Joint System in the 1970s
> Message-ID:
> <CAJCrz550ajCzQuMz-t+zMF34Dk3YwtvwPCGU0Om9swUg-
> MkXhQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> I was a student at Manchester University from 1974 to 1980. During that
> time I used the University of Manchester Regional Computer Centre (UMRCC)
> computer system. The so-called Joint System consisted of a CDC 7600 with an
> ICL 1906A front end. We used to submit card decks via a Systime (a PDP-11
> clone, I believe) that functioned as a remote job entry service.
>
> I am trying to find out information about the structure of those card decks
> (mine were used for shopping lists years ago), and in particular, what the
> first card in the deck was that routed the job to the correct computer.
>
> I have found information about JOB cards for both ICL computers running
> George 3 and for the CDC 7600 running SCOPE 2.1 (which is what the
> computers ran), but I believe that neither of these gives the full story
> about what we used on the Joint System.
>
> Does anyone who used this system, or similar ones in the UK, recall
> anything relevant?
>
> If you have suggestions about where else to post this query, I would be
> grateful for that too.
>
> Cheers
>
> Peter Allan
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 26
> Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 13:26:05 -0400
> From: Paul Berger <phb.hfx at gmail.com>
> To: Eric Schlaepfer via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: WTB: HP-85 16k RAM Module and HPIB Floppy Drive
> Message-ID: <71be6676-c829-33e3-4e48-b3ca4eedcefc at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> I just checked my 9122C I happen to have open and the interval between
> index pulses is 199.66mS? which would be 300 RPM, which is good news for
> me I can now proceed with adapting a more common 1.44 drive to replace
> my broken one.
>
> Paul.
>
>
> On 2017-11-17 1:04 PM, Eric Schlaepfer via cctalk wrote:
> > Check your email. How can you tell if it uses a 600 RPM mechanism or not?
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 3:17 AM, Eric Smith <spacewar at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Eric,
> >>
> >> It's not urgent, but when you have a chance, could you dump the 9122C
> >> ROM(s) and take high resolution photos of the controller board?
> >>
> >> Since it does HD, I suspect it probably does not use a 600 RPM
> mechanism.
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >> Eric
> >>
> >>
> >> On Nov 15, 2017 17:45, "Eric Schlaepfer via cctalk" <
> cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> It'd be interesting to find out how well that PRM-85 works. I've laid
> out
> >>> a
> >>> board for a rough equivalent but I haven't fabbed it out. It may be
> >>> cheaper
> >>> for me to buy that instead.
> >>>
> >>> I've also got a 9122C but I don't have the mass storage ROM so I can't
> use
> >>> it with my 85. Right now I'm using it with my 9000 series 300.
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 8:26 PM, Mark J. Blair via cctalk <
> >>> cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Nov 14, 2017, at 20:11, Ed Sharpe via cctalk <
> >>> cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>> wondervifcthec9122 drives,will work on 85?
> >>>>>
> >>>> I think I can guess what you meant to say there... :)
> >>>>
> >>>> I?ve ordered a PRM-85 (a modern reprogrammable ROM drawer replacement)
> >>>> which includes the HP-85B version of the Mass Storage ROM, and the
> >>> Extended
> >>>> Mass Storage ROM. Based on what I have read, I think that should let
> my
> >>> A
> >>>> model use the newer 9122C drive, and other drives using either the
> >>> Amigo or
> >>>> SS-80 protocols.
> >>>>
> >>>> I?d like to get the 9122C mostly because I have a much easier time
> >>> finding
> >>>> 1.44M media than the older double density media. eBay and I don?t
> talk,
> >>> so
> >>>> that limits my options a bit. If I had easy access to lots of 3.5? DD
> >>>> media, then I would consider getting one of the more plentiful (?)
> other
> >>>> 3.5? HPIB floppy drives.
> >>>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 27
> Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 18:31:07 +0100 (CET)
> From: Christian Corti <cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de>
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Playing with HP2640B
> Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1711171829260.29647 at linuxserv.home>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> On Fri, 17 Nov 2017, David Collins wrote:
> > Christian do you know the gauge of the wire you used ? And the current?
>
> It was a wire for cutting polystyrene blocks. The current was a fews
> amperes, I think, driven off a bench power supply.
>
> Christian
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 28
> Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 09:57:36 -0800
> From: Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com>
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: Manchester University Joint System in the 1970s
> Message-ID: <0ba9f9e5-3b8d-cbbb-5d91-e1a9b9f10e48 at sydex.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> On 11/17/2017 09:24 AM, Peter Allan via cctalk wrote:
> > I was a student at Manchester University from 1974 to 1980. During that
> > time I used the University of Manchester Regional Computer Centre (UMRCC)
> > computer system. The so-called Joint System consisted of a CDC 7600 with
> an
> > ICL 1906A front end. We used to submit card decks via a Systime (a PDP-11
> > clone, I believe) that functioned as a remote job entry service.
> >
> > I am trying to find out information about the structure of those card
> decks
> > (mine were used for shopping lists years ago), and in particular, what
> the
> > first card in the deck was that routed the job to the correct computer.
>
> I can't help you with your specific case, other than to mention that
> Purdue University for a time used a 6500 front-ended by a couple of IBM
> 7094s (IIRC, and it's been a long time--could have been 7090s), that
> might give you a clue. The VIM community wasn't large.
>
> >From my own experience with 6000s, the SCOPE 1BJ overlay was heavily
> modified by various sites. I imagine that the corresponding code in
> the SCOPE 2.x JS code was similarly tweaked.
>
> --Chuck
>
>
>
> End of cctalk Digest, Vol 38, Issue 16
> **************************************
>
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