Huge IBM 1800 find (and need some help)

[Johannes Thelen]

Some progress...

We made little trip couple days ago and now 1800 is disassembled. It took 6 hours with breaks to disassemble all doors, side panels, "hats", power sources, floor cabling and etc stuff. Firstly I thought this IBM is like some spaceship on its complexity, but this is quite simple machine. Very straightforward design, every part has own logical place and there is not too much cabling (and everything is clearly labeled!).

There was four of us, so I think we made quite progress in that time. Also we had to measure every cable before touching them, there was little possiability there is still some "hot" cables (mostly because same wires can go throught cable ducts which are still use and electrify floating wires by induction).

Here's pics: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B_DR111cK6W-UHNPN2J1QzFKWG8&usp=sharing

...so we are ready to bring this whole thing down to the stairs next week!

And then some findings: both 2311 has leaked their fluids and roof has leaked over 1443 ( = rust). All rubber parts (like flat cabling bounds) are like potato chips. Doors and side panels need new paint. CPU's ALD manuals are long gone, only ALD which we found was for 1443.

But something good too: it seems 1800 99.90% intact (However, there have been visited some "guest stars" in last 30 years, so something can be taken there as souviner or some parts can be removed and put back to wrong places). Also some other nice findings were IO tester inside of 2841 and "Heili's" framed naming testinomy from 1971! :D

More coming later!


- Johannes ThelenFinland
Before microcomputers blog (Finnish) http://ennenmikrotietokoneita.blogspot.fi/



> From: johannesthelen at hotmail.com
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
> Subject: RE: Huge IBM 1800 find (and need some help)
> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2015 22:57:44 +0200
> 
> 
> > I don't need the manual, just noticed it on the pictures.
> > Better keep it yourself, as V7 documentation is more difficult to
> > find today.
> Ok, I understood you wrong. But I'll pick up everything what is related anything anything old computers! I'll make later catalog of this library, maybe there is something useful for someone. 
> > Looking forward to hear more about your efforts moving the machine
> > from it's current locattion to the new one and getting it to work
> > again.
> Of course, more updates comes later when project goes further!
> 
> 
> - Johannes ThelenFinland
> Before microcomputers blog (Finnish) http://ennenmikrotietokoneita.blogspot.fi/
> 
> 
> 
> > Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2015 17:05:19 +0100
> > Subject: RE: Huge IBM 1800 find (and need some help)
> > From: quapla at xs4all.nl
> > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
> > 
> > Hello Johannes.
> > 
> > I don't need the manual, just noticed it on the pictures.
> > Better keep it yourself, as V7 documentation is more difficult to
> > find today.
> > 
> > Looking forward to hear more about your efforts moving the machine
> > from it's current locattion to the new one and getting it to work
> > again.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Ed
> > 
> > 
> > >> I also noted that there is an Oracle manual of some sort on top of
> > >> a gray-ish machinepart(?). That would be interesting, as this software
> > >> was available on IBM under MVS/VM. It could either be version 4.1.x
> > >> or version 5.0.x. If you come across that pack and it still works,
> > >> then you have access to an old and most likely working version of
> > >> a RDBMS. In that case, give me a shout and I could help you though
> > >> some command and some info to put it in action.
> > >>
> > > Hi Ed! I'm sure we get it for you ;) ...I have to just book everything
> > > what we carry out there, I think we have no problem to get it for you
> > > (shared joy is best joy :)
> > >
> > > But I can't find anything else Oracle stuff on the pics than Oracle's
> > > Server 7 pack over 1442 card read/punch (that greyish box)..? Did you ment
> > > that?
> > >
> > >
> > > - Johannes ThelenFinland
> > > Before microcomputers blog (Finnish)
> > > http://ennenmikrotietokoneita.blogspot.fi/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> From: johannesthelen at hotmail.com
> > >> To: cctech at classiccmp.org
> > >> Subject: RE: Huge IBM 1800 find (and need some help)
> > >> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2015 13:54:45 +0200
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Hello everybody!
> > >>
> > >> It is quite big system as everything in that place. However, somehow
> > >> they made that stairway still small... :/ I know there is few people who
> > >> would do something like this big/crazy project even they would want, it
> > >> is question of time/space/money, but mostly will and too far gone old
> > >> computer obsession :D
> > >>
> > >> By the way, my girlfriend saw first time this 1800, and she said "that
> > >> is not that big computer"... What?! I'm not sure who I'm with, maybe she
> > >> has some IBM Strecth on hers basement and she has not told me everything
> > >> :D
> > >>
> > >> One more fun thing, this computer have name: Heili. It is Finnish girl's
> > >> name, usually computer are named here man's names far as I know. It can
> > >> be named later by workers, I think it probably had no name originally.
> > >> However, even it have almost pink dress, I would not called couple tons
> > >> weighted monster as "girl", there could better expressions for it ;)
> > >> ...but she is pretty in her own way for sure!
> > >>
> > >> Anyways, I have rolled cabinets on Inventor (3D designing soft, not on
> > >> real life!) and it seems all cabinets can bend on the stairways easily.
> > >> I hope I can done whole thing under three days nice and clean, without
> > >> breaking anything (IBM either donaters walls/floors)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I'll make now official moving plan for donater, make needed tools, get
> > >> trucks, safety equipment and insurances for the crew then we are ready
> > >> to go! Also I'm taking with me welding equipment and wood working stuff,
> > >> so we can make backup plan on the scene if needed.
> > >>
> > >> Any ideas or questions are welcome!
> > >>
> > >> Ps. Happy weekend for everyone!
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> - Johannes ThelenFinland
> > >> Before microcomputers blog (Finnish)
> > >> http://ennenmikrotietokoneita.blogspot.fi/
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> > Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 17:20:53 -0400
> > >> > Subject: Re: Huge IBM 1800 find (and need some help)
> > >> > From: wdonzelli at gmail.com
> > >> > To: cctech at classiccmp.org
> > >> >
> > >> > That has to be just about the biggest 1800 system ever made.
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > Will
> > >> >
> > >> > On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 5:19 PM, Mike Stein <mhs.stein at gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> > > Wow indeed! Now THAT's a project!
> > >> > >
> > >> > > m
> > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave G4UGM"
> > >> <dave.g4ugm at gmail.com>
> > >> > > To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic Posts'" <cctech at classiccmp.org>
> > >> > > Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 5:12 PM
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Subject: RE: Huge IBM 1800 find (and need some help)
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >> Wow.....
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >> > >>> From: cctech [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of
> > >> > >>> Johannes Thelen
> > >> > >>> Sent: 27 March 2015 21:03
> > >> > >>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts
> > >> > >>> Subject: RE: Huge IBM 1800 find (and need some help)
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> I just visited see 1800  (900 km of driving! I'm little bit
> > >> exhausted...)
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> and we
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> had big time with plant manager when we went throught the stash! I
> > >> think
> > >> > >>> I
> > >> > >>> have infected him of old computer disease, he had very excited
> > >> this
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> project
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> too, haha! :) Original plan was to pickup some small items today,
> > >> but it
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> was
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> impossible, because of all my hurry at work :/ But now I have
> > >> good,
> > >> > >>> interesting and of course,  bad news ... Lets take the bad news
> > >> first: it
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> seems
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> that machine have donate some parts as can be seen at the pics.
> > >> That
> > >> > >>> company had another 1800, maybe some parts have been picked out
> > >> for it...
> > >> > >>> Also there is "small" dust problem, it is every freaking place!
> > >> > >>> Then interesting news: it have been used to since 1986, longer as
> > >> I
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> excepted.
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> Second, and more interesting fact, that same warehouse had used as
> > >> > >>> mushroom farm ;) Good news: There is documents every where! Just
> > >> quick
> > >> > >>> look, and I found tens of IBMs original documents! And also it is
> > >> still
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> fully
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> enough to fix it up. Some spare parts are laying around and almost
> > >> all
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> stuff
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> what is know used back then, is still there (except Tektronix
> > >> displays,
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> GRRR!).
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> ****
> > >> > >>> And that moving... Somebody recommend sleigh and thats really only
> > >> > >>> option,
> > >> > >>> it is absolute enourmous work to but it small pieces. I have to
> > >> make
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> sleigh of
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> RHS beams, plywood and polyamidi slides. This whole set is lowered
> > >> on
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> stairs
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> by winch. That's the plan and it should (and would) work!
> > >> > >>> More coming later! Now I have to sleep!
> > >> > >>> Oh, the pictures:
> > >> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B_DR111cK6W-
> > >> > >>> SFJpMm16MVgyVFk&usp=sharing
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> Ps. And thank you for all for good advices! :D Thaaaaanks!
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> - Johannes ThelenFinland
> > >> > >>> Before microcomputers blog (Finnish)
> > >> > >>> http://ennenmikrotietokoneita.blogspot.fi/
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> > Subject: Re: Huge IBM 1800 find (and need > some help)
> > >> > >>> > From: paulkoning at comcast.net
> > >> > >>> > Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2015 13:53:04 -0400
> > >> > >>> > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
> > >> > >>> > CC: publicmail at jwsss.com
> > >> > >>> >
> > >> > >>> >
> > >> > >>> > > On Mar 21, 2015, at 11:23 PM, Jon Elson > >
> > >> <elson at pico-systems.com>
> > >> > >>> wrote:
> > >> > >>> > >
> > >> > >>> > > On 03/21/2015 05:15 PM, Jim Stephens wrote:
> > >> > >>> > >>
> > >> > >>> > >>
> > >> > >>> > >> On 3/21/2015 12:50 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
> > >> > >>> > >>> OK, a quick search shows the 2311 was > >>> indeed
> > >> hydraulic!
> > >> > >>> > >> The University of Missouri, Rolla 9 drive > >> 2314 was
> > >> hydraulic,
> > >> > >>> > >> and on
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> night
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> a drive's actuator unloaded into the pack area, and took it out,
> > >> but the
> > >> > >>> damage from that major failure was contained w/o the pack or
> > >> actuators
> > >> > >>> exiting the enclosure.  however the debris took out all the packs
> > >> and
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> drives.
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> > >>
> > >> > >>> > > This one wasn't when I was there.  I think > > we also had a
> > >> oil
> > >> > >>> > > spraying
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> event
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> there, but it was relatively contained.  We had one at Washington
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> University,
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> also that might have contaminated several spindles before they got
> > >> all
> > >> > >>> the
> > >> > >>> packs unloaded.
> > >> > >>> > > I think this one is fairly quickly detected > > if the
> > >> computer room
> > >> > >>> > > is
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> occupied,
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> it causes a strong oily smell that is quickly spread by the A/C
> > >> system.
> > >> > >>> >
> > >> > >>> > We had a 1620/II in college with a pair of > 1311s, which are
> > >> similar
> > >> > >>> > to
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> the
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> 2311.  The system drive sprung a leak.  The field service tech
> > >> replaced
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> the
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> failed seals, and I obtained some reagent grade isopropyl alcohol
> > >> from
> > >> > >>> the
> > >> > >>> chemistry department.  He used that with Kimwipes to clean the oil
> > >> from
> > >> > >>> pack and heads.  The result was complete success.  Packs and heads
> > >> in
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> those
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> days had tolerances far larger; I wouldn't want to try that with
> > >> anything
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> much
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> newer.  But if you have a 2311 with contaminated heads or packs,
> > >> you
> > >> > >>> might
> > >> > >>> give that technique a try.
> > >> > >>> >
> > >> > >>> > paul
> > >> > >>> >
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >
> > >>
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Dit is een HTML vrije email / This is an HTML free email.
> > Zeg NEE tegen de 'slimme' meter.
> > 
>