Microcode dated?
Jeffrey S. Worley
technoid6502 at gmail.com
Sun Jan 6 12:48:45 CST 2019
On Sun, 2019-01-06 at 12:00 -0600, cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: ELTRAN THE COMPILER ANY DOCS? (NOT THE SEMICONDUCTOR
> STUFF!))) (Chuck Guzis)
> 2. Re: ELTRAN THE COMPILER ANY DOCS? (NOT THE SEMICONDUCTOR
> STUFF!))) (Chuck Guzis)
> 3. Re: ELTRAN THE COMPILER ANY DOCS? (NOT THE SEMICONDUCTOR
> STUFF!))) (ED SHARPE)
> 4. off topic - capatob - saratov2 computer Russsian pdp8? HELP
> (Dr Iain Maoileoin)
> 5. Re: ELTRAN THE COMPILER ANY DOCS? (NOT THE SEMICONDUCTOR
> STUFF!))) (ED SHARPE)
> 6. Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem (Fritz Mueller)
> 7. uc04 + scsi2sd ? (Jacob Ritorto)
> 8. Re: uc04 + scsi2sd ? (Richard Cini)
> 9. KD11-E/EA microcode flow diagrams (Noel Chiappa)
> 10. Re: KD11-E/EA microcode flow diagrams (Fritz Mueller)
> 11. Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem (Jerry Weiss)
> 12. Re: uc04 + scsi2sd ? (Jerry Weiss)
> 13. Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem (Fritz Mueller)
> 14. ISO - 386 or 486 system or cplt mobo (drlegendre)
> 15. Re: ISO - 386 or 486 system or cplt mobo (wrcooke at wrcooke.net)
> 16. SMECC on the hunt for Monarch hp 150 poster do U have one?
> or a hi res clean scan? (ED SHARPE)
> 17. Re: uc04 + scsi2sd ? (Al Kossow)
> 18. Re: uc04 + scsi2sd ? (Josh Dersch)
> 19. Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem (Tony Duell)
> 20. Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem (Jerry Weiss)
> 21. Re: OT? Upper limits of FSB (Curious Marc)
> 22. Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem (Fritz Mueller)
> 23. Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem (Tony Duell)
> 24. Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem (Fritz Mueller)
> 25. Re: ISO - 386 or 486 system or cplt mobo (devin davison)
> 26. Re: off topic - capatob - saratov2 computer Russsian pdp8?
> HELP (Bob Smith)
> 27. Re: off topic - capatob - saratov2 computer Russsian pdp8?
> HELP (Grant Taylor)
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 10:10:04 -0800
> From: Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com>
> To: Fred Cisin via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: ELTRAN THE COMPILER ANY DOCS? (NOT THE SEMICONDUCTOR
> STUFF!)))
> Message-ID: <1651425f-f406-205d-5284-1e6fd1d7c00a at sydex.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Okay, I think I found the reference to it.
>
> It turns out that it was a high-school student's project entered in
> the
> "Fourth Annual Computer Programming Contest for Grades 7 to 12'. To
> quote:
>
> "The 1966 winner was William J. Elliott, a 12th grade student at West
> High School in Minneapolis. His project, ELTRAN, is an algorithmic
> language compiler system for the UNIVAC 422 computer. Until the
> development of ELTRAN, no compiler existed for the computer."
>
> See PDF page 10 here:
>
> http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/computersAndAutomation/196701.pdf
>
> --Chuck
>
> P.S. One of these days, I'm going to host a course on "how to use
> Google".
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 10:17:52 -0800
> From: Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com>
> To: Chuck Guzis via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: ELTRAN THE COMPILER ANY DOCS? (NOT THE SEMICONDUCTOR
> STUFF!)))
> Message-ID: <6e237124-1ac7-700d-b9be-beda8f3a0e16 at sydex.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Since it was a 53-year old high-school project, I doubt that you're
> going to find much on it. However, see the post by Steve Schweda
> here:
>
> https://community.hpe.com/t5/Operating-System-OpenVMS/Left-shift-by-more-than-32-bits-gt-undefined-in-DEC-C/td-p/5054212
>
> He may actually have some familiarity with ELTRAN and know where some
> documentation exists.
>
> --Chuck
>
>
>
>
> On 1/5/19 10:10 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
> > Okay, I think I found the reference to it.
> >
> > It turns out that it was a high-school student's project entered in
> > the
> > "Fourth Annual Computer Programming Contest for Grades 7 to
> > 12'. To quote:
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 18:21:53 +0000 (UTC)
> From: ED SHARPE <couryhouse at aol.com>
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: ELTRAN THE COMPILER ANY DOCS? (NOT THE SEMICONDUCTOR
> STUFF!)))
> Message-ID: <1152753582.13550260.1546712513898 at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> (COME ON SOCRATES ...? DO YOUR? THING!)
>
> In a message dated 1/5/2019 1:49:38 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
> cctalk at classiccmp.org writes:
>
> no is compiler a small one only 2 do loops allowed...ed#
> Sent from AOL Mobile MailOn Friday, January 4, 2019 Chuck Guzis via
> cctalk <cclist at sydex.com; cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:On 1/4/19 8:42
> PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:> Would be? interesting when you find
> it.> Not necessarily "tiny"> Remember WATFOR??? (very impressive!)
> I guesss not too many numerical methods types hwere, but ELTRAN is
> asubroutine in the EISPACK linear programming set.? Yes, it's all
> FORTRAN:
> > From the subroutine:
> cc? ? this subroutine is a translation of the algol procedure
> elmtrans,c? ? num. math. 16, 181-204(1970) by peters and wilkinson.c?
> ? handbook for auto. comp., vol.ii-linear algebra, 372-395(1971).cc?
> ? this subroutine accumulates the stabilized elementaryc? ?
> similarity transformations used in the reduction of ac? ? real
> general matrix to upper hessenberg form by? elmhes.
> --Chuck
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 18:36:56 +0000
> From: Dr Iain Maoileoin <iain at csp-partnership.co.uk>
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
> Subject: off topic - capatob - saratov2 computer Russsian pdp8? HELP
> Message-ID:
> <4BDE03FE-1A04-4060-B245-6EFDDC503B42 at csp-partnership.co.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Off topic, but looking for help and/or wisdom.
>
> If you visit https://www.scotnet.co.uk/iain/saratov <
> https://www.scotnet.co.uk/iain/saratov>/ <
> https://www.scotnet.co.uk/iain/> you will see some photos and wire-
> lists of work that I have started on the front panel of a Capatob 2.
>
> I plan to get the switches and lights running on a blinkenbone board
> with a PDP8 emulation behind it. (I already have an PDP11/70 front-
> panel running on the same infrastructure)
>
> I have been struggling for over a year to get much info about this
> saratov computer (circuit diagrams etc). So I have started the
> reverse engineering on the panel.
>
> Does anybody know anything about this computer? online or offline it
> would be much appreciated.
>
> Iain
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 19:17:56 +0000 (UTC)
> From: ED SHARPE <couryhouse at aol.com>
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org, cclist at sydex.com, COURYHOUSE at aol.com
> Subject: Re: ELTRAN THE COMPILER ANY DOCS? (NOT THE SEMICONDUCTOR
> STUFF!)))
> Message-ID: <860959218.13562972.1546715876710 at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Chuck! Many thanks!
> Update on? 422 UNIVAC? docs . .? some kind? ?people have mailed in?
> docs and? ?things? they have? found related to this? 422 UNIVAC ...?
> things are? shaping up! Many? thanks? ?to? all? these? folks-
>
> I? fear ever putting power to this? thing... so? may? parts to go?
> POP... I have a nice large? Variac.....? ?suggestions?
> Ed
>
> In a message dated 1/5/2019 11:18:00 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
> cctalk at classiccmp.org writes:
> Since it was a 53-year old high-school project, I doubt that you're
> going to find much on it.? However, see the post by Steve Schweda
> here:
>
> https://community.hpe.com/t5/Operating-System-OpenVMS/Left-shift-by-more-than-32-bits-gt-undefined-in-DEC-C/td-p/5054212
>
> He may actually have some familiarity with ELTRAN and know where some
> documentation exists.
>
> --Chuck
>
>
>
>
> On 1/5/19 10:10 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
> > Okay, I think I found the reference to it.
> >
> > It turns out that it was a high-school student's project entered in
> > the
> > "Fourth Annual Computer Programming Contest for Grades 7 to 12'.?
> > To quote:
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 12:58:44 -0800
> From: Fritz Mueller <fritzm at fritzm.org>
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem
> Message-ID: <06515329-3961-4FF4-87FE-C11C3FDEF2AD at fritzm.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
>
> > On Jan 5, 2019, at 8:07 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk <
> > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > > From: Fritz Mueller
> > > All the CPU, FPU, KT11, KW11, and RK11 MAINDECS are passing just
> > > fine.
> >
> > Don't forget Vonada Maxim #12:
> > "Diagnostics are highly efficient in finding solved problems.?
>
> Well, there?s wisdom there, for sure! :-)
>
> Last night I also managed to put a new RSTS image, sysgen?d with the
> non-overlapped DK driver, on a different physical pack. It behaved
> exactly the same way on the real hardware (looping, counting up
> errors) on boot.
>
> So I think now overlapped vs. non-overlapped DK driver is not the
> issue, and media and image transfer fidelity are not the issue. A
> memory or MMU problem would be consistent with what has been seen so
> far, so I may bark up that tree a little more today.
>
> Paul, any additional suggestions for things to look at in ODT to try
> and wring out more information on the specifics of the fault?
>
> I did get some MACRO CRC-16 sub-routines coded up last night while
> waiting for various transfers, so I think I?ll go ahead and finish up
> the standalone CRC dumper utility today.
>
> Lastly, a 5V-tolerant USB FIFO breakout board is supposed to show up
> in the mails today. If that works out as simply as I hope to
> interface with a DR11-C, I should have a much better way to blast
> bits on and off the machine soon.
>
> cheers,
> --FritzM.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 17:46:33 -0500
> From: Jacob Ritorto <jacob.ritorto at gmail.com>
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: uc04 + scsi2sd ?
> Message-ID:
> <
> CAHYQbfABUeqYRHVCDGFJW=AWwEmP85aCn5GUNeeVvbxKVNw=Ow at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Hey all,
> Anyone know whether the Emulex UC04 works with the sd2scsi? I just
> bought a uc04 and it won't talk to any of my old scsi disks, seems to
> think
> there's supposed to be a "controller" in between :\ yuck.
>
> thx
> jake
>
> P.S. While I'm at it, anyone know how to get UC04 to talk to directly
> to
> plain scsi disks and tapes instead of these lunatic ESDI controller
> bridge
> things?
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 22:51:54 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Richard Cini <rich.cini at verizon.net>
> To: Jacob Ritorto <jacob.ritorto at gmail.com>, "General Discussion:
> On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: uc04 + scsi2sd ?
> Message-ID:
> <
> C8CACE9E45EB766D.E58C2E33-FDBF-42C3-836D-A38B62C941C3 at mail.outlook.com
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I use it with a UC07. Not sure what the difference in the
> controllers is thought.
>
>
>
> Get Outlook for iOS
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 5:46 PM -0500, "Jacob Ritorto via cctalk" <
> cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hey all,
> Anyone know whether the Emulex UC04 works with the sd2scsi? I just
> bought a uc04 and it won't talk to any of my old scsi disks, seems to
> think
> there's supposed to be a "controller" in between :\ yuck.
>
> thx
> jake
>
> P.S. While I'm at it, anyone know how to get UC04 to talk to directly
> to
> plain scsi disks and tapes instead of these lunatic ESDI controller
> bridge
> things?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 18:35:38 -0500 (EST)
> From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa)
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
> Cc: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu
> Subject: KD11-E/EA microcode flow diagrams
> Message-ID: <20190105233538.972AD18C0BE at mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
>
> The copy of the KD11-EA engineering drawings (in the 11/34A Field
> Maintenance
> Print Set, MP-00190) on Bitsavers is missing most of the pages that
> hold the
> microcode flow diagrams. I have a set of the KD11-EA FMPS (MP-00192),
> which
> does have all the missing pages, which I can eventually scan.
> However, in the
> interim, the 11/34 Field Maintenance Print Set Vol. 2 (MP-00082) on
> Bitsavers
> has a complete set of microcode flow diagrams for the KD11-E (pp. 15-
> 40 of the
> PDF), and they are almost identical to the KD11-EA diagrams.
>
> The only difference I can see (I compared page by page, to see if
> each page
> had the same microinstructions on it) is that on sheet 17; the last
> microinstruction for RTI/RTT has been moved from 002 -> 744. (The
> actual
> microinstruction contents seem to be the same.)
>
> I don't know whyo the changed address; I originally thought that
> perhaps they
> had to re-do the IR Decode ROMs when they added floating point, and
> they
> needed the original location to handle the start of the floating
> point
> microcode, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
>
> Noel
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 16:04:29 -0800
> From: Fritz Mueller <fritzm at fritzm.org>
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: KD11-E/EA microcode flow diagrams
> Message-ID: <B740924C-3A2A-467D-BD20-71373D26569D at fritzm.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
>
> > On Jan 5, 2019, at 3:35 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk <
> > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > The only difference I can see (I compared page by page, to see if
> > each page
> > had the same microinstructions on it) is that on sheet 17; the last
> > microinstruction for RTI/RTT has been moved from 002 -> 744. (The
> > actual
> > microinstruction contents seem to be the same.)
>
> That?s interesting... So what?s at 002 now? Maybe something new was
> required there by micro branch/fork logic, so the original contents
> had to be moved?
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 18:06:48 -0600
> From: Jerry Weiss <jsw at ieee.org>
> To: Fritz Mueller <fritzm at fritzm.org>, "General Discussion: On-Topic
> and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem
> Message-ID: <c8bf1cf0-1cdc-f63b-278a-d0ccd75a86b1 at ieee.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> On 1/5/19 2:58 PM, Fritz Mueller via cctalk wrote:
> > > On Jan 5, 2019, at 8:07 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk <
> > > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > > From: Fritz Mueller
> > > > All the CPU, FPU, KT11, KW11, and RK11 MAINDECS are passing
> > > > just fine.
> > > Don't forget Vonada Maxim #12:
> > > "Diagnostics are highly efficient in finding solved problems.?
> > Well, there?s wisdom there, for sure! :-)
> >
> > Last night I also managed to put a new RSTS image, sysgen?d with
> > the non-overlapped DK driver, on a different physical pack. It
> > behaved exactly the same way on the real hardware (looping,
> > counting up errors) on boot.
> >
> > So I think now overlapped vs. non-overlapped DK driver is not the
> > issue, and media and image transfer fidelity are not the issue. A
> > memory or MMU problem would be consistent with what has been seen
> > so far, so I may bark up that tree a little more today.
> >
> > Paul, any additional suggestions for things to look at in ODT to
> > try and wring out more information on the specifics of the fault?
> >
> > I did get some MACRO CRC-16 sub-routines coded up last night while
> > waiting for various transfers, so I think I?ll go ahead and finish
> > up the standalone CRC dumper utility today.
> >
> > Lastly, a 5V-tolerant USB FIFO breakout board is supposed to show
> > up in the mails today. If that works out as simply as I hope to
> > interface with a DR11-C, I should have a much better way to blast
> > bits on and off the machine soon.
> >
> > cheers,
> > --FritzM.
> >
> Along those lines if you have a spare disk pack, try putting
> RT11(FB,XM)
> on the machine and give it a workout.?? This would exercise the
> machine
> a bit more than MAINDECS, though not as much as RSTS.
>
> A few suggestions from my ancient history running RK11-C and a mix
> of
> DEC and Diablo Drives.? I regularly disassembled, moved cross
> country
> and reassembled PDP 11/34 and LSI 11/73 systems. I ran them in small
> rooms which housed saltwater tanks containing sea creatures.
>
> * Given the age of this equipment, double check all the ground
> connections between the cabinets, PDU's, drives, outlets and CPU.
> * Carefully check for breaks or problems with drive cables and
> terminators.
> * I believe you need a terminator in the RK11-C if the second disk
> bus
> is unused.
> * Try using the drive on the other bus if RSTS can be booted of
> from DK4.
> * Make sure you only have one LTC active if a DL11-W and a KW11 are
> both in use.
> * If you are not using a common PDU for the CPU, Drive and RK11-C
> power supplies, make sure they all powered from outlets on the
> same
> phase.
> * Don't leave the disk packs or drives near the tanks.? The squid
> have
> good aim and their ink isn't kind to electrical devices.
>
> ??? Jerry
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 18:27:15 -0600
> From: Jerry Weiss <jsw at ieee.org>
> To: Jacob Ritorto <jacob.ritorto at gmail.com>, "General Discussion:
> On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: uc04 + scsi2sd ?
> Message-ID: <8f48055c-6ca2-d342-25d2-4c2baaedb0d3 at ieee.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> Hi Jake,
>
> I don't have a UC04, but its manual states its? Peripheral Interface
> is
> SCSI single ended.? The pinout is just like the UC07, except for
> terminator power.
>
> ??? Jerry
>
> On 1/5/19 4:46 PM, Jacob Ritorto via cctalk wrote:
> > Hey all,
> > Anyone know whether the Emulex UC04 works with the sd2scsi? I
> > just
> > bought a uc04 and it won't talk to any of my old scsi disks, seems
> > to think
> > there's supposed to be a "controller" in between :\ yuck.
> >
> > thx
> > jake
> >
> > P.S. While I'm at it, anyone know how to get UC04 to talk to
> > directly to
> > plain scsi disks and tapes instead of these lunatic ESDI controller
> > bridge
> > things?
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 16:44:51 -0800
> From: Fritz Mueller <fritzm at fritzm.org>
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem
> Message-ID: <2CA1BCC4-8E94-4A21-9A3F-10F3AFFDBA03 at fritzm.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Hi Jerry,
>
> > On Jan 5, 2019, at 4:06 PM, Jerry Weiss <jsw at ieee.org> wrote:
> >
> > Along those lines if you have a spare disk pack, try putting
> > RT11(FB,XM) on the machine and give it a workout. This would
> > exercise the machine a bit more than MAINDECS, though not as much
> > as RSTS.
>
> Yup, I have previously had RT-11 running on this machine without
> incident.
>
> > ? I believe you need a terminator in the RK11-C if the second
> > disk bus is unused.
>
> Yep, got that in there.
>
> > ? Try using the drive on the other bus if RSTS can be booted of
> > from DK4.
>
> Easy enough experiment to try; would need to re-jumper the G740 disk
> selection flip chip in the RK11-C too, I guess?
>
> > ? Make sure you only have one LTC active if a DL11-W and a KW11
> > are both in use.
>
> Only a DL11-W in this system.
>
> > ? Don't leave the disk packs or drives near the tanks. The
> > squid have good aim and their ink isn't kind to electrical devices.
>
> Ah, haven?t checked that one yet. I will carefully check my basement
> for squid!
>
> --FritzM.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 19:42:10 -0600
> From: drlegendre <drlegendre at gmail.com>
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: ISO - 386 or 486 system or cplt mobo
> Message-ID:
> <
> CAFjrmd4Y27od8rxFBHcszAV4=KANscJyuVq31mn6ckE7AQ+wjg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> I'm interested in finding a 386 or slow 486 machine or moboj ust for
> playing DOS games. Does anyone have such a thing sitting around,
> looking
> for a home?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 22:02:21 -0500 (EST)
> From: wrcooke at wrcooke.net
> To: drlegendre <drlegendre at gmail.com>, "General Discussion: On-Topic
> and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: ISO - 386 or 486 system or cplt mobo
> Message-ID: <2039907214.341781.1546743741252 at email.ionos.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
>
> > On January 5, 2019 at 8:42 PM drlegendre via cctalk <
> > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I'm interested in finding a 386 or slow 486 machine or moboj ust
> > for
> > playing DOS games. Does anyone have such a thing sitting around,
> > looking
> > for a home?
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
>
> I have a couple of 386sx motherboards with I think 1MB ram. I
> thought I had a full 386 board with 8MB ram but I can't seem to find
> it. Would one of those work for you?
>
> Will
>
>
> "He may look dumb but that's just a disguise."? -- Charlie Daniels
>
>
> "The names of global variables should start with? ? // "? --?
> https://isocpp.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 03:03:29 +0000 (UTC)
> From: ED SHARPE <couryhouse at aol.com>
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
> Subject: SMECC on the hunt for Monarch hp 150 poster do U
> have one?
> or a hi res clean scan?
> Message-ID: <2056564350.13640687.1546743809848 at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Howdy? from the? ?desert? lands in Arizona!Early in the? HP DOS? PC?
> campaign? there was the? monarch? butterfly poster used to advertise?
> HP? 150 ... seeking to recreate? a duplicate? in a? corner of? the?
> room our? little? hp 150? computer exchange inc? ?demo desk? area?
> .... the? poster ( or a? print of it... )? ?is? needed!
> What? great? fun we are? having...? got a? 2886a? (need paper feeder?
> and receiver? little? flap? things that hung off? printer though)and
> the? stake of? all the? '150' blue? box? ?software'? to have there
> too? and other things? ? for the era...any other early poster
> material? good? too... the monarch? one is? what? sticks in my?
> brain...
> OK? also the? HP Portable 110? came? along too... interested in Ad?
> material for? it... have most of the hardware? to? look? ?interesting
> I? think.
> THANKS IN ADVANCE? ED SHARPE? ARCHIVIST FOR SMECC
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 19:55:49 -0800
> From: Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org>
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: uc04 + scsi2sd ?
> Message-ID: <9fc4ea8d-2b99-5682-4bef-a25799b4cfd1 at bitsavers.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
>
>
> On 1/5/19 2:46 PM, Jacob Ritorto via cctalk wrote:
> > Hey all,
> > Anyone know whether the Emulex UC04 works with the sd2scsi?
>
> Nope. This card expects pre common command set disks with non-
> embedded
> scsi adapters.
>
> In a bad old days, you had to configure the scsi drive adapters
> with disk geometry before you could use them, and the UC04
> does that for adapters like the Adaptec 4000.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 20:41:21 -0800
> From: Josh Dersch <derschjo at gmail.com>
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: uc04 + scsi2sd ?
> Message-ID: <97bc8c2b-9143-3d42-4c22-ec58452b17a3 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
>
> On 1/5/2019 7:55 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
> > On 1/5/19 2:46 PM, Jacob Ritorto via cctalk wrote:
> > > Hey all,
> > > Anyone know whether the Emulex UC04 works with the sd2scsi?
> > Nope. This card expects pre common command set disks with non-
> > embedded
> > scsi adapters.
> >
> > In a bad old days, you had to configure the scsi drive adapters
> > with disk geometry before you could use them, and the UC04
> > does that for adapters like the Adaptec 4000.
> >
> Al's right; I'll add two things:
>
> 1) I've used a SCSI2SD in other systems that formerly used an
> Adaptec
> 4000/5000 controller with some success, but I was only ever able to
> get
> a single drive to work at a time; you may have similar luck with the
> SCSI2SD if you configure it just right.
>
> 2) The SCSI2SD does currently have support for emulating some of
> these
> early controllers/bridges, but the Adaptecs aren't on the list yet
> --
> however the SCSI2SD's creator has been open to feature requests in
> the
> past, and might be able to add support, and documentation for the
> Adaptect boards is readily available.? (And the SCSI2SD firmware's
> open
> as well, so you can hack it in yourself if you have the time, etc.)
>
> - Josh
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 05:17:50 +0000
> From: Tony Duell <ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com>
> To: Fritz Mueller <fritzm at fritzm.org>, "General Discussion: On-Topic
> and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem
> Message-ID:
> <
> CAHkUCCzgCmUGP4fD9aKTtNGVfqWahVRxWgHAVSAiu3FHU2J-8g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> On Sun, Jan 6, 2019 at 12:45 AM Fritz Mueller via cctalk
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > > ? Try using the drive on the other bus if RSTS can be
> > > booted of from DK4.
> >
> > Easy enough experiment to try; would need to re-jumper the G740
> > disk selection flip chip in the RK11-C too, I guess?
>
> No. One difference between the RK11-C and RK11-D is how it does drive
> selects.
> The RK11-C has 4 select lines on each cable, one is asserted at a
> time. The RK11-D
> has a 3 bit binary selection. There's a decoder in the RK05 (on the
> G740 I think) that
> is enabled when the drive is connected to an RK11-D. The RK03 is 1-
> of-4 select
> only which is why it works on an RK11-C and not on an RK11-D.
>
> So on the first drive connector of the RK11-C you get selects 0..3.
> On
> the second
> cable you get 4..7. The drive is always jumpered for 0,1,2,3. If it's
> jumpered as drive
> 0 and you connect it to the first connector it's DK0. If it's
> jumpered
> as drive 0 and
> you connect it to the second connector it's DK4.
>
> -tony
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 23:37:19 -0600
> From: Jerry Weiss <jsw at ieee.org>
> To: Tony Duell <ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com>, "General Discussion: On-Topic
> and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>, Fritz Mueller
> <fritzm at fritzm.org>
> Subject: Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem
> Message-ID: <0381aa1f-bb09-17c7-490f-ed8247779015 at ieee.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> On 1/5/19 11:17 PM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:
> > On Sun, Jan 6, 2019 at 12:45 AM Fritz Mueller via cctalk
> > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > > > ? Try using the drive on the other bus if RSTS can be
> > > > booted of from DK4.
> > > Easy enough experiment to try; would need to re-jumper the G740
> > > disk selection flip chip in the RK11-C too, I guess?
> > No. One difference between the RK11-C and RK11-D is how it does
> > drive selects.
> > The RK11-C has 4 select lines on each cable, one is asserted at a
> > time. The RK11-D
> > has a 3 bit binary selection. There's a decoder in the RK05 (on the
> > G740 I think) that
> > is enabled when the drive is connected to an RK11-D. The RK03 is 1-
> > of-4 select
> > only which is why it works on an RK11-C and not on an RK11-D.
> >
> > So on the first drive connector of the RK11-C you get selects 0..3.
> > On
> > the second
> > cable you get 4..7. The drive is always jumpered for 0,1,2,3. If
> > it's
> > jumpered as drive
> > 0 and you connect it to the first connector it's DK0. If it's
> > jumpered
> > as drive 0 and
> > you connect it to the second connector it's DK4.
> >
> > -tony
>
> I have used a Diablo drive with 1 of 4 selection on a third party
> RKV11
> controller which was 3 bit binary.
> It only worked as DK1, DK2 or DK4 for obvious reasons.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 21:40:10 -0800
> From: Curious Marc <curiousmarc3 at gmail.com>
> To: "Jeffrey S. Worley" <technoid6502 at gmail.com>, "General
> Discussion:
> On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: OT? Upper limits of FSB
> Message-ID: <1B9BC890-8E94-4184-A6F8-6AAD35F5F924 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Interconnects at 28Gb/s/lane have been out for a while now, supported
> by quite a few chips. 56Gb/s PAM4 is around the corner, and we run
> 100Gb/s in the lab right now. Just sayin? ;-). That said, we throw in
> about every equalization trick we know of, PCB materials are getting
> quite exotic and connectors are pretty interesting. We have to hand
> hold our customers to design their interconnect traces and connector
> breakouts. And you can?t go too far, with increasing reliance on
> micro-twinax or on-board optics for longer distances and backplanes.
> Marc
>
> > On Jan 4, 2019, at 11:02 PM, Jeffrey S. Worley via cctalk <
> > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > Apropos of nothing, I've been confuse for some time regarding
> > maximum
> > clock rates for local bus.
> >
> > My admittedly old information, which comes from the 3rd ed. of
> > "High
> > Performance Computer Architecture", a course I audited, indicates a
> > maximum speed on the order of 1ghz for very very short trace
> > lengths.
> >
> > Late model computers boast multi-hundred to multi gigahertz
> > fsb's. Am
> > I wrong in thinking this is an aggregate of several serial lines
> > running at 1 to 200mhz? No straight answer has presented on
> > searches
> > online.
> >
> > So here's the question. Is maximum fsb on standard, non-optical
> > bus
> > still limited to a maximum of a couple of hundred megahertz, or did
> > something happen in the last decade or two that changed things
> > dramatically? I understand, at least think I do, that these
> > ridiculously high frequency claims would not survive capacitance
> > issues
> > and RFI issues. When my brother claimed a 3.2ghz bus speed for his
> > machine I just told him that was wrong, impossible for practical
> > purposes, that it had to be an aggregate figure, a 'Pentium rating'
> > sort of number rather than the actual clock speed. I envision
> > switching bus tech akin to present networking, paralleled to
> > sidestep
> > the limit while keeping pin and trace counts low.....? Something
> > like
> > the PCIe 'lane' scheme in present use? This is surmise based on my
> > own
> > experience.
> >
> > When I was current, the way out of this limitation was fiber-optics
> > for
> > the bus. This was used in supercomputing and allowed interconnects
> > of
> > longer length at ridiculous speeds.
> >
> > Thanks for allowing me to entertain this question. Though it is
> > not
> > specifically a classic computer question, it does relate to
> > development
> > and history.
> >
> >
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Technoid Mutant (Jeff Worley)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 21:45:39 -0800
> From: Fritz Mueller <fritzm at fritzm.org>
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem
> Message-ID: <52B95127-1712-4E7E-AF23-879C42FD7F1D at fritzm.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
>
>
> > On Jan 5, 2019, at 9:17 PM, Tony Duell <ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, Jan 6, 2019 at 12:45 AM Fritz Mueller via cctalk
> >
> > > Easy enough experiment to try; would need to re-jumper the G740
> > > disk selection flip chip in the RK11-C too, I guess?
> >
> > No. One difference between the RK11-C and RK11-D is how it does
> > drive selects.
> > ... The drive is always jumpered for 0,1,2,3.
>
> Hi Tony,
>
> I?m speaking of the G740 at C13 on the RK11-C backplane, appearing on
> sheet RK11-C-06 in the engineering drawings and described in the last
> paragraph of section 3.2.5 in the RK11-C manual?
>
> On my RK11-C, this is jumpered to enable only drives 0 and 1; all
> other jumpers are unpopulated.
>
> --FritzM.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 23
> Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 05:51:18 +0000
> From: Tony Duell <ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com>
> To: Fritz Mueller <fritzm at fritzm.org>, "General Discussion: On-Topic
> and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem
> Message-ID:
> <
> CAHkUCCwiheajcd31QFD6YMEQVVDk8qM98arTz9RTqy5pPMCmDA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> On Sun, Jan 6, 2019 at 5:45 AM Fritz Mueller via cctalk
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > I?m speaking of the G740 at C13 on the RK11-C backplane, appearing
> > on sheet RK11-C-06 in the engineering drawings and described in the
> > last paragraph of section 3.2.5 in the RK11-C manual?
> >
> > On my RK11-C, this is jumpered to enable only drives 0 and 1; all
> > other jumpers are unpopulated.
>
> Ooops...
>
> Yes, you do have to fit the jumper there. Actually, is there a good
> reason not to fit all
> jumpers on that board?
>
> -tony
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 24
> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 21:58:48 -0800
> From: Fritz Mueller <fritzm at fritzm.org>
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem
> Message-ID: <AE581820-081C-44E4-A543-406FC31FB533 at fritzm.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> > On Jan 5, 2019, at 9:51 PM, Tony Duell <ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > Actually, is there a good reason not to fit all jumpers on that
> > board?
>
> Looking at it, I was just wondering the same thing!
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 25
> Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 01:53:34 -0500
> From: devin davison <lyokoboy0 at gmail.com>
> To: wrcooke at wrcooke.net, "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic
> Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: ISO - 386 or 486 system or cplt mobo
> Message-ID:
> <
> CAOpB=UM9O-iJHzRjfgo805+qJ52OzjPPGmH1O=cyH9yq380PmQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> I have a stockpile of them. Will get you pictures tomorrow.
>
> On Sat, Jan 5, 2019, 11:59 PM Will Cooke via cctalk <
> cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> wrote:
>
> > > On January 5, 2019 at 8:42 PM drlegendre via cctalk <
> > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm interested in finding a 386 or slow 486 machine or moboj ust
> > > for
> > > playing DOS games. Does anyone have such a thing sitting around,
> > > looking
> > > for a home?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance.
> >
> > I have a couple of 386sx motherboards with I think 1MB ram. I
> > thought I
> > had a full 386 board with 8MB ram but I can't seem to find
> > it. Would one
> > of those work for you?
> >
> > Will
> >
> >
> > "He may look dumb but that's just a disguise." -- Charlie Daniels
> >
> >
> > "The names of global variables should start with // " --
> > https://isocpp.org
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 26
> Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 09:08:03 -0500
> From: Bob Smith <bobsmithofd at gmail.com>
> To: Dr Iain Maoileoin <iain at csp-partnership.co.uk>, "General
> Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <
> cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: off topic - capatob - saratov2 computer Russsian pdp8?
> HELP
> Message-ID:
> <
> CAHtNYbW0GBXV+UPRCwGMZzCnvMNpLCiF5LkG6wez_65w3YxMSQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> https://hapoc2015.sciencesconf.org/file/176702
>
> gives a Little more history on Soviet copies of computers.
> The timing of the production of the Capatob 2 seems to make it a
> PDP8/L clone, not an M. What is called the 8 is really based on the
> 5,
> used 6-bit bytes, 12 bit words, and was Octal based - memory was the
> most expensive part of the system at least through the early 70s, and
> thus 12 bit words for double precision, 24bits, was a reasonable
> approach for a scientific computer.
> bb
>
> On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 1:37 PM Dr Iain Maoileoin via cctalk
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> > Off topic, but looking for help and/or wisdom.
> >
> > If you visit https://www.scotnet.co.uk/iain/saratov <
> > https://www.scotnet.co.uk/iain/saratov>/ <
> > https://www.scotnet.co.uk/iain/> you will see some photos and wire-
> > lists of work that I have started on the front panel of a Capatob
> > 2.
> >
> > I plan to get the switches and lights running on a blinkenbone
> > board with a PDP8 emulation behind it. (I already have an PDP11/70
> > front-panel running on the same infrastructure)
> >
> > I have been struggling for over a year to get much info about this
> > saratov computer (circuit diagrams etc). So I have started the
> > reverse engineering on the panel.
> >
> > Does anybody know anything about this computer? online or offline
> > it would be much appreciated.
> >
> > Iain
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 27
> Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 10:42:15 -0700
> From: Grant Taylor <cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net>
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: off topic - capatob - saratov2 computer Russsian pdp8?
> HELP
> Message-ID:
> <
> aec7d8ba-4356-8f6f-9bfe-16ac4932cbc0 at spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> On 1/6/19 7:08 AM, Bob Smith via cctalk wrote:
> > What is called the 8 is really based on the 5, used 6-bit bytes, 12
> > bit
> > words, and was Octal based
>
> Is "byte" the correct term for 6-bits? I thought a "byte" had
> always
> been 8-bits. But I started paying attention in the '90s, so I missed
> a lot.
>
> I would have blindly substituted "word" in place of "byte" except
> for
> the fact that you subsequently say "12-bit words". I don't know if
> "words" is parallel on purpose, as in representing a quantity of two
> 6-bit word.
>
> Will someone please explain what I'm missing that transpired before
> I
> started paying attention in the '90s?
>
>
>
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