- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 26, 11:36, emanuel stiebler wrote: > does anybody have a description of the jumpers & dil-switches ? Sure. The DIL switches are small rectangular objects about 0.4" x 0.7" and the jumpers... (Sorry, I can rarely resist that :-)) I think this is what you want: There are 2 layouts, Revision A and Revision C. ___ ___ | \__________________||______________________||___________________/ | | 5017547A1 o | | R o-o W5| | | P o-o o-o | | N o-o W6 | | M o-o | | oA | | o | | __oB | | | |1 | | SW1 | | o W1 | | | | o | | M7551-AA |___|6 o W2 | | MSV11-QA oK | | REV.A o | | oL | | ___ | | | |1 | | SW2 | | | | | | | | |___|6 | | | | o | | C | D | | o-o | | +5V o-o-o | | o-o J H | |_ _|| _|| _|| | _| | | | | | | | o +5VB | |______________| |______________| |______________| |______________| ___ ___ | \__________________||______________________||___________________/ | | 5017547-01-C1 | | J11,9,7,5 | | J10,8,6,4 | | | | J3 J2 J1 | | ___ | | | |1 | | M7551-xA SW2 | | | | MSV11-Qx | | | | REV.C |___|6 | | | | where x = A = 1MB ___ | | x = B = 2MB | |1 | | x = C = 4MB SW1 | | | | | | | | |___|6 | | | | | | o o | | +-o o-+ | | W3 | o o | W1 | | +-o o-+ | | J17,16,15 J14,13,12 | | | |_ _|| _|| _|| _| | | | | | | | | |______________| |______________| |______________| |______________| Address switches: Start Address End Address Board No SW1 SW2 SW2 Version in system 4 5 6 4 5 MSV11-QA 1 0 0 0 1 1 2 1 1 1 0 1 3 0 1 1 1 0 4 1 0 1 0 0 MSV11-QB 1 0 0 0 1 1 2 0 1 1 0 0 MSV11-QC 1 0 0 0 0 0 0=ON, 1=OFF SW2-1, -2, -3 and SW1-1, -2, -3 are all ON. SW1-6 is not used. CSR Address: Rev.A jumpers R,P,N,M all IN Rev.C jumper J4-J5, J6-J7, J8-J9, J10-J11 AND then: Board No in system CSR addr 1 17772100 2 17772102 3 17772104 4 17772106 The other Rev.A jumpers are: W1 IN block mode enabled W6 IN Manufacturing test (do not remove) B IN CSR selection enabled C IN Manufacturing test (do not remove) H IN enable parity error detection L IN 22-bit addressing selected +5V/+5VB do not use, this module does NOT support battery-backup option The other Rev.C jumpers are: J1-J2 IN Manufacturing test (do not remove) J13-J14 IN on -QA Select 64K RAMs OUT on -QB,-QC J15-J16 IN on -QA Select 64K RAMs OUT on -QB,-QC J12-J13 IN on -QB,-QC Select 256K RAMs OUT on -QA J16-J17 IN on -QB,-QC Select 256K RAMs OUT on -QA W1,W3 IN Battery backup option setting -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 1 month

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Questions/Wanted

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Questions: Does anyone haveSolddering For an idiot projects... something to do with electronics and soldering Or for that matter PCB Projects, for an idiot (as above) such as me. Wanted: PC-DOS 1.x or MS DOS 1.x/2.x for and XT, with a failing HDD. Anyone? Thanks, Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 1 month

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PCX3 System 1800 up for grabs

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

Anyone interested in this? I know the guy and he's a very decent person so you don't have to worry about "getting the wrong thing" I think it's free anyway. Contact Jeff by driect email at either jarrod95(a)juno.com or jarrod95(a)jadeinc.com -------------------------------------------- Jeff Young <jarrod95(a)juno.com> Columbus, Ohio USA - Sunday, April 26, 1998 at 19:21:49 Any one interested in an Old IBM PCX3 with monitor, and another computer and all we can find on it is System 1800, also have a Mono monitor, ADC. Contact me or they are going to the recyle bin. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 1 month

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CDC thingy (was Re: About the Wang '669 patent)

by peacock＠simconv.com

>How about the CAI system that CDC had (I can't remember the name off hand >at the moment - I think my brain is broken - I couldn't even remember the >brand name of some wine I wanted to buy yesterday... Will chewing on a >floppy disk or two improve things :-). From my limited exposure it's likely >that the CDC thingy :-) had a browser style interface. > I saw a CDC demo of that once circa 1974, as I recall it was called "Plato", used a nice orange plasma display, limited animation, astronomical price. CDC had grandiose plans it would be used in schools, like every high school in the country could afford a $2 million CDC 6600 to support it. Kinda sad actually, once Cray left CDC they didn't have a clue as to what to do afterwards, the big iron Cyber 6000s went nowhere, the company wound up running payroll services (the remnants of CDC are now known as Ceridian, a batch payroll services company). Jack Peacock

28 years, 1 month

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Freebies up for grabs!

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Time to clean out at least part of my garage, especially in light of the new arrivals. All offerings are freebies, though it would be nice if I could get -something- in trade. ;-) Please bear in mind two things. 1). I cannot ship anything other than the books. The disk and tape drives are too darn big and heavy, and would require specialized packaging in any case. 2). Dave Jenner has first pick since he E-mailed me this morning before I posted the list. I'll post an update if he wants any of the stuff. With that in mind, I have the following to offer: 1). HP 7974 9-track vertical tape drive, with all mounting hardware. 1600 BPI, Pertec interface, supplied with the hardware to convert it (if desired) to a GPIB interface. Excellent condition, powers up and loads fine, have not actually tested it with a working system. 2). (Definitely a freebie!) 83-84 vintage System Industries SMD disk drive. Spins up, makes lots of noise, don't know if it works. Comes with mounting rails. 3). Cipher 880 tape drive, dual-density (1600/3200). Condition: Who knows? Freebie. 4). Books! I've got spare copies of: DEC's 'Microsystems Handbook' for 1985 DEC's 'Introduction to Minicomputer Networks' vintage 1974 Everex 'Step 386' owner's manual DEC PDP11 'Programming Card' quick-reference, vintage July 1975 DEC DHV11 Technical Manual. Any takers? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 1 month

2
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Printer seen, DEC LP25

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Anyone (finger points at Allison) have any stories about them? It looked <fairly serious. Bill gave the particulars on it, band printer like the want stuff RCSRI has 300LPM and could slew paper fast enough to empty a box fast. The hood gas shocks would dry out and somtimes people would get a finger bit or their head konked good. Bill likely remembers Pat Pattenden or Paul Howard as those guys were the old timers with those. Allison

28 years, 1 month

2
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Junk sale (new offer)

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> wrote: > I don't remember ever seeing a desktop PC coming from them. Anybody know > how rare this box is? Sounds like a keeper. Yup, they made desktop PC-compatibles for a while. I remember a dealer in College Park, MD selling them (Software'n'Things if anyone else out there remembers them; to the best of my knowledge they aren't operating under that name anymore if at all). One of the big selling points was that they were upgradable by virtue of the passive backplane. Buy an XT-compatible now, later on you can upgrade to an AT-compatible just by swapping the CPU card for the '286 flavor. BTW Doug, is that your face I saw gazing up at me from this morning's San Jose Mercury News? If not, there's some guy calling himself Doug Salot who has some stuff in his collection that's an awful lot like things you've mentioned on this list. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 1 month

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Printer seen, DEC LP25

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> wrote: > Yes they were dot matrix. I always equated line printers with dot matrix > printers. Is there a difference? When someone says Line Printer I think of something with the type on a chain (or a drum) and the ribbon in front of the paper, and then a bunch of hammers behind the paper. When the right character is in front of the right position, the printer fires the hammer for that position and pushes the paper up against the ribbon and chain/drum. But the real definition is in how much data you have to send to the printer to get it printing. If you have to give it a full line to get it going then it's a line printer. If you only have to give it a character to make it print then it isn't. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 1 month

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Logic State Analyser

by jolminkh＠nsw.bigpond.net.au

>Unless the Z80 option includes a pod that attaches to a Z80, then you Is this "pod" something that clamps over an installed CPU? There is a test socket for something like this. May attach to an edge connector at the back marked "Microprocessor Probe".

28 years, 1 month

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Freebie Update

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Dave Jenner has bowed out on all items in the list I posted. Sam has claimed the DEC books. The programming card and Everex book are still available, as are all the hardware items. Caveat emptor! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 1 month

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Freebie update

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Sam Ismail has claimed the books I'd offered. The other items are still available. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 1 month

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q-bus M7551 q22 mos memory

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi all, does anybody have a description of the jumpers & dil-switches ? thanks, emanuel

28 years, 1 month

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Printer seen, DEC LP25

by william＠ans.net

Anyone (finger points at Allison) have any stories about them? It looked fairly serious. William Donzelli william(a)ans.net

28 years, 1 month

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WANTED: MC68[34]0 programmers reference manual

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi, ---------- > From: J. Maynard Gelinas <maynard(a)jmg.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: WANTED: MC68[34]0 programmers reference manual > Date: Sunday, April 26, 1998 10:02 AM > > Hey folks, > > While I've got a 68000/08/10/ book, I'm in need of some > documentation for the 68881 which comes built in to the 68030. this was new to me ;-)) serious: 68881 is a co-pro for 68020 68882 is a co-pro for 68030 most parts of a 68881 are built in 68040 68030 has the MMU built in (not all types !!) > I checked at Quantum books (next to MIT - _THE_ place to check > around here) among several other technical book stores. > Unfortunately, I can't seem to find it for sale > anywhere... seems like the 68k like has really died the hard > death. Soooo, if anyone has an extra copy they're interested > in selling please contact me. check the motorola semiconductor webpage. You should find all information you need there. cheers, emanuel

28 years, 1 month

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week ended pretty good

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Had a pretty good week getting more items for the museum, from ebay I go Newton messagepad model H1000 with all the manuals, stickers, video, and other items that came with it when new; a Magic Mike II Robot from 1984 model-8; from ebay a Mac Portable with carrying case not working at this time, put in new batteries and still nothing;two items I got at police auction Saturday Mac PowerBook Duo230 and Duo Dock, and A US Robotics pilot 5000 missing a few item but powers on these are not 10 years old yet but I got them anyway as they will be someday;HP 4940A Transmission Impairment unit, SUN 3/50 loaded; HP98785A monitor not tested ($5); early Mac mouse M0100; Mac Plus manuals;HP 150 model 45611A; Apple RGB model A9M0308 used with IIe or IIgs a odd shaped model; Time-Life The Personal Computer book with lots of nice pictures of classic units; also their Computer Basics book; HP 100/Personal Card file manual; HP 150 Terminal Users guide; HP Personal Computer Owners guide; IBM PC an Introduction by Larry Joel Goldstein and Martin Goldstein 1984; Making the Most of Your ZX81 by Tim Hartnell 1981; The ZX81 Companion by Robert Maunder 1981; 49 Explossive Games fo the ZX81 by Tim Hartnell 1981; Microcomputer Experimentation with the Intel SDK-85 by Lance Leventhal and Colin Walsh 1980;Socrates KB not tested yet; AT&T 6300 mono monitor; a complete set of manuals for the 6300; Commodore Buyers guide; Atari Logo reference manual; MAI systen cartridges; Daynafile guide and diskettes; Timex Sinclair 1016 memory module; Sinclair ZX81 basic programming manual; Commodore 1541C users guide; Sorates voice cartridge users manual 1988; Upgrading and repairing PC's by QUE 1988; HP87; and many other items that do not meet the 10 year rule but the prices were right get them now and hold until they do. Well that's my short list so Keep Computing John

28 years, 1 month

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microprocessors - was Re[2]: Replies to various threads

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> I missed a few... D11, T11, 68030, HP Saturn, 7811 (if we're counting <> embedded chips that we've never programmed :-)), 8x305, Z8, probably <I didn't quite mean that :-) I was just interested to note that some <micros that were once well-known aren't well-represented in your list, o <Allison's, or mine. Only one occurrence of the 9900, no F8, only one <Cosmac, ... Perhaps three people is just too small a sample to show al <of the ones that faded from popularity (and maybe nobody else here is <interested :-)) Not a lot of DSPs either, though of course they're more <"modern". Well the F8 while known was not hobbiest fodder being aimed at embedded systems. Same can eb said for z8. The 9900 as I refer to it was not the TI99/4a(have those too) but a Technico SBC, due to a lack of TI support it was not that popular. However the TI99/4a is still quite popular. Others I've worked with 78pg11(uCOM78) were aimed at embedded applications. I might add that my time as a product engineer at NEC in the early '80s had me designing in that part as well as supporting it along with ucom4 and ucom75 4bit micros. The RCA1802 was sort of a square egg. It had popularity for a short while. People lost interest after that, partly as RCA discontinued it by the mid 80s. Also because it was slow and had a relatively poor(primitive) instruction set and a total lack of high level languages other than tinybasic. The advent of more complete systems like apple and trs80 and decreasing prices helped focus the market on two key players 6502 and z80 and it would remain that way until the 68000 and 8088(x86) would displace them. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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WANTED: MC68[34]0 programmers reference manual

by maynard＠jmg.com

Hey folks, While I've got a 68000/08/10/ book, I'm in need of some documentation for the 68881 which comes built in to the 68030. I checked at Quantum books (next to MIT - _THE_ place to check around here) among several other technical book stores. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find it for sale anywhere... seems like the 68k like has really died the hard death. Soooo, if anyone has an extra copy they're interested in selling please contact me. Thanks! --jmg

28 years, 1 month

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paper tape

by dcoward＠pressstart.com

John Foust said: >I just got 21 rolls of original yellow Teletype 1" tape from >someone on the RTTY mailing list for the cost of shipping, and I >promised to share the wealth, so ... Well, do you know if it's oiled or unoiled? I'm not sure but I think I may need the oiled. I need to ask someone. My wife says that this tape I have has the distinct smell of machine oil. It should make the punch block last longer. I was just going to order a 1/4 case from Western Numerical Control (http://www.westnc.com/paptape.html). That's 7 rolls for $33.00, in all kinds of colors. And they are close by in Grass Valley,CA. I also want to ask them about the toxicity of paper tape. (My two sheppards think everything is a toy for them to fight over.) ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward(a)pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum =========================================

28 years, 1 month

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Info on Teletek SBC-1

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Does anyone have info on a Teletek SBC-1 Z80-based single-board <computer? Copyright is 1981. It's loaded except for RAM (from what I can <see). It has a Z80 CPU, PIO, SIO, and CTC. There are a couple of blank <sockets, and a TMM2016P-2 memory chip (a 2716??). It appears to be built <a S-100 card. First off 2016 is a byte wide ram. I sounds like someone stripped the card. The SBC-1 was a complete Z80cpu(4 or 6mhz)/64kram/eprom/IO card it was designed to be used as a slave to the Systemaster cpu card. The 2016 was used to create a FIFO so that block IO coul be used to communicate with it. the only thing it lacked to be a complete S100 cp/m system on a board was disk IO. The system master card had all that and FDC as well. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Printer seen, DEC LP25

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Were they DOT MATRIX? I'll bet they're not big old noisy line printers u <they're sound covered and about 4 feet tall. LA120 was dot matrix and it's fame was the longest running DEC produced printer. Reason for that, it could do 8part carbons! IT was considered teh best vax hard copy console. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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microprocessors - was Re[2]: Replies to various threads

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 25, 18:02, Tony Duell wrote: > I missed a few... D11, T11, 68030, HP Saturn, 7811 (if we're counting > embedded chips that we've never programmed :-)), 8x305, Z8, probably other > 650x and 680x chips embedded in things. Can I count the CPU array chips > in a DAP, please <grin>. > > > However, what's surprising about these lists is not what's there, but > > what's missing. > > What do you think I should have included? I may just have forgotten I > used it... I didn't quite mean that :-) I was just interested to note that some micros that were once well-known aren't well-represented in your list, or Allison's, or mine. Only one occurrence of the 9900, no F8, only one Cosmac, ... Perhaps three people is just too small a sample to show all of the ones that faded from popularity (and maybe nobody else here is interested :-)) Not a lot of DSPs either, though of course they're more "modern". -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 1 month

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Logic State Analyser

by jolminkh＠nsw.bigpond.net.au

I have been rearranging my storage area and uncovered a HP 1611A Logic State Analyser fitted with a Z80 option that I picked up a few years ago. I have no idea what one would do with this. Should I cherish it? Play with it? Does one need the specific manual or are these generic and perhaps explained in standard texts? There are a number of plugin points for various types of probes, none of which I have off course. It powers up fine though.

28 years, 1 month

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What a haul!

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Indeed, what a haul (at least if you're into DEC stuff). Thanks to the kindly folk at St. Martin's College about 40 miles south of me, I am now the proud owner of: * A PDP-11/44 and its rack... * A Fujitsu 'Eagle' drive (and it's weight!) * A Cipher 880 front-loader tape drive... * Numerous distribution tapes for several versions of RSTS/E, including one for ver. 9.7(!)... * Various bits of documentation. Unfortunately, not a lot on RSTS itself (much of it got trashed along with the -- get this -- distribution kit for RSTS 10! Dang, I was pissed when I heard about that...) And, thanks to my friends at RE-PC, I have also acquired a pair of M4 Data model 9914 9-track SCSI tape drives. These are neat boxes! Quad density (800/1600/3200/6250), autoloading, neat front panel with alphanumeric display, etc. It's been a busy weekend. Now, if you'll pardon me, I need to go collapse and snore my brains out. ;-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 1 month

1
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Junk sale

by william＠ans.net

...mostly because I do not want to throw the stuff out/scrap it... (1) Miniscribe 8425SA drive, removed from a Mac Plus. I assume it works still, but do not quote me on that. It seemed to power up fine just a few minutes ago. The Mac was in very poor condition, so that got scrapped. (1) Kaypro 81-045-02 PeeCee. This appears to be their version of the XT (oh, joy), but unlike most clones, is a little better built. It uses no motherboard, just a passive backplane with a CPU card. This one has a 20 meg Seagate drive and a Samsung (yuck!) CGA tube. It works, and has only DOS 5.0 on it. The nice thing about this is that most of the chips are socketed! (5) Ink ribbons for the IBM 5103 printer. Still sealed, these come with a goofy plastic glove for the CE. OK, so there are probably not even five 5103s left in the world... (1) Computer Wharehouse Store catalog, Spring-Summer 1977. SWTPC! Imsai! Kim-1! $1200 floppy drives! A slice from the "good old days" of the micro. The pages are a bit yellow, but in good shape. The cover is also nice, but the previous owner scribbled his name on the top. Really, if _anyone_ wants any of this stuff, speak up and make a SILLY offer. I will ship anything but the Kaypro (I could deliver it to RCS/RI in Providence, RI, however). Trades are good for the stuff as well. Not first come first serve - I will decide "winners" in a day or two, just to give those with restricted or slow email a chance. William Donzelli Carmel, NY 10512 william(a)ans.net

28 years, 1 month

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Year 2000 Bounty

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Christian Fandt <cfandt(a)servtech.com> writes: > Kip, is that magazine online anywhere? I haven't heard of it myself. http://www.chac.org/chengine.html ftp://ftp.batnet.com/people/chac/ftp/pub/engine12.txt -Frank McConnell

28 years, 1 month

1
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Info on Teletek SBC-1

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Hello, all: Does anyone have info on a Teletek SBC-1 Z80-based single-board computer? Copyright is 1981. It's loaded except for RAM (from what I can see). It has a Z80 CPU, PIO, SIO, and CTC. There are a couple of blank sockets, and a TMM2016P-2 memory chip (a 2716??). It appears to be built on a S-100 card. Thanks! Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

28 years, 1 month

1
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No subject

by joakimkjellander＠hotmail.com

Dear sir`s. I want to move a harddisk from a PCXT to a PCAT and add it to the existing harddisk in my PCAT. Do you know how that can be done? With kind regards. Joaki Kjellander. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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First speaker announced for VCF2

by dastar＠wco.com

The first speaker has been confirmed for VCF2 this September. David Rutland was an engineer on a lesser known but very significant computer dedicated in 1950 called the SWAC (National Bureau of Standards Western Automatic Computer). You can check out his bio on the Vintage Computer Festival web page: http://www.siconic.com/vcf Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't blame me...I voted for Satan. Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 04/25/98]

28 years, 1 month

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Replies to various threads

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 25, 1:39, Tony Duell wrote: > Allison wrote: > > I have: 1802, SC/MP, 6800, 6809, NEC D78PG11, 8748/9, 8751, 8080/8085, > > z80, z180, z280, z8002, z8001, 808x, 8018x, 80286, 80386, 80486 and the > > micro version of minis 6100(pdp-8), 6120(PDP-8+EMA) TI9900, PDP11(T-11, > > F11, J-11). > Let's see how I do : > > Ones I have : (possibly embedded, but I've designed machines round a > number of these...) > > SC/MP, 8008, 8080, 1802, 8085, Z80, 64180, 8086, 8088, 80286, 80386, 80486, > 68000, 68010, 68020, 68040, T212 (or maybe T225), T425, T801, T805, > PIC16C84, PIC17C42, F11, J11, 6502, 6809, 6800, 6803, 4040, 8048 (and > 8035), 8051 (and 8031, 8032), ARM2, ARM3, R2000, 6120, Z8001, 32016, 2901 > etc (does that count), 3001 etc (ditto), and doubtless more that I've > forgotten... I can't beat that... 8008, 8085, 8088, 8086, 80186, 80286, 80386, 80486, V20, Z80, Z8, Z8001 (but in foam, not a system), 6502, 65C12, 6800, 6809 (in foam), 68HC11, 8032, 8035, 8048, 68000, 68010, 68020, assorted PICs, ARM2, ARM3, R4600, Sparc, 2901, D11, F11, T11, J11, 6100, and probably a few embedded "things" and others I've forgotten, but I wouldn't claim to have programmed all of them. However, what's surprising about these lists is not what's there, but what's missing. What's a 3001, BTW? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 1 month

2
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About the Wang '669 patent

by dwollmann＠ibmhelp.com

At 09:50 PM 4/24/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > [snippies] > >What makes you think the Evil Empire is behind this? Did Microsoft buy >Wang recently? If not, they'll get hit with the same suit. > [s] >-- Doug Have a look at http://www.mozilla.org/.

28 years, 1 month

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Replies to various threads

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> Allison wrote: <> > I have: 1802, SC/MP, 6800, 6809, NEC D78PG11, 8748/9, 8751, 8080/8085 <> > z80, z180, z280, z8002, z8001, 808x, 8018x, 80286, 80386, 80486 and t <> > micro version of minis 6100(pdp-8), 6120(PDP-8+EMA) TI9900, PDP11(T-1 <> > F11, J-11). By and large including the 8008 and VAX I've programmed and designed with all. The key thing is I have working examples of all but the 8008. Drat, I forgot the NEC unique 4 bitters the uCOM4 and ucom75 series designed them into and programmed them as well. <What's a 3001, BTW? 3001 is an intel bit slice (2 bits per). Allison

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4004 (was Re[2]: Replies to various threads)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I have an Intel Component Data Catalogue from about 1978 that still lists <as being available then. A 4 bit microprocessor wouldn't have been very <useful in a computer so might we find them as controllers in washing <machines, microwaves and the like? They were used for calculator like and control systems. The word width does not determine it's usefulness as a computer though it greately affects speed. Allison

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C64 3 1/2" drive

by cgregory＠lrbcg.com

The highly sought after Commodore 1581 (3 1/2") drive is worth anywhere from $50. - $80. depending upon condition (power supply included). Post a message as to it's availability in comp.sys.cbm, and you'll have all kinds of offers. Cliff Gregory cgregory(a)lrbcg.com -----Original Message----- From: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> To: Cgregory <Cgregory> Date: Friday, April 24, 1998 10:15 PM Subject: C64 3 1/2" drive > >Just turned up a Commodore 3 1/2" drive -- didn't know they existed! Anyone >interested? > >Also, some strange thing with 4 hand held units with 4 buttons each, which >plugs into the joystick port. No software. > >manney(a)lrbcg.com > >

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4004 (was Re[2]: Replies to various threads)

by jolminkh＠nsw.bigpond.net.au

> >Showoff :-) No 8008? I always wanted a 4004 (anyone listening out there, I have an Intel Component Data Catalogue from about 1978 that still lists it as being available then. A 4 bit microprocessor wouldn't have been very useful in a computer so might we find them as controllers in washing machines, microwaves and the like?

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About the Wang '669 patent

by H.Davies＠latrobe.edu.au

At 09:50 PM 24-04-98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote: >It sounds like the Wang patent basically covers rendering formatted >information on a terminal that was acquired via a remote connection. So, >what was the closest thing to a Web browser before 1993? GRiD fan that I >am, I vote for the 1982 GRiD/OS and remote GRiDCentral. GRiD/OS had a >form and menu based OS interface and actions were based on the file type >and extension. GRiDCentral (and the LAN-based GRiDServer) basically >distributed this menu-based filesystem over a remote connection. How about the CAI system that CDC had (I can't remember the name off hand at the moment - I think my brain is broken - I couldn't even remember the brand name of some wine I wanted to buy yesterday... Will chewing on a floppy disk or two improve things :-). From my limited exposure it's likely that the CDC thingy :-) had a browser style interface. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "My Alfa keeps me poor in a monetary Melbourne Australia 3083 | sense, but rich in so many other ways"

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About the Wang '669 patent

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 24, 21:50, Doug Yowza wrote: > Subject: About the Wang '669 patent > On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > If you haven't seen the news yet, I found out thanks to http://slashdot.org > > , Microsoft is pulling one of their dirtiest stunts ever in their attempt > > to destroy Netscape. If anyone doesn't think Microsoft is evil this should > > convince them, unless they are niave enough to think Microsoft isn't behind > > this! > > What makes you think the Evil Empire is behind this? Did Microsoft buy > Wang recently? If not, they'll get hit with the same suit. They "formed a partnership" which, amongst other things, involved the exchange of some $90,000,000. > It sounds like the Wang patent basically covers rendering formatted > information on a terminal that was acquired via a remote connection. So, > what was the closest thing to a Web browser before 1993? GRiD fan that I > am, I vote for the 1982 GRiD/OS and remote GRiDCentral. GRiD/OS had a > form and menu based OS interface and actions were based on the file type > and extension. GRiDCentral (and the LAN-based GRiDServer) basically > distributed this menu-based filesystem over a remote connection. The Wang patent relates to videotex terminals, exactly the stuff that British Telecom developed in the 1970s and pushed hard (as PRESTEL) in the early 80s. Prestel was organised a little like an ISP, with various "IP"s (information providers) renting space in which they creating "frames" of text and (chunky) graphics which were accessible by modem. IPs could sublet space, too, so individuals could rent just a single frame if they wanted. In 1982 PRESTEL launched a service called Micronet800, which used thousands of pages on PRESTEL servers to store microcomputer related news, software, etc, and started selling software to enable home micros to dial up and display/load/save these pages. Actually, stuff for micros had been around on PRESTEL before that, but spring 1982 was when it took off. I got my software and modem that summer. Most of the modems were simple devices built in to an acoustic coupler, fondly known as agnostic complicators. PRESTEL itself didn't make use of file extensions, but obviously some of the micro systesm that accessed it did. CP/M has always based certain actions on file types and extensions, for example. It did use menus of links, and the links between frames, could be quite arbitrary (and tangled!) just like the web. There was even a command to go back one or more frames, and there were "response" frames and a mail system and ... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

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Year 2000 Bounty

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

As far as commonality of old machines goes, most airports have old machines. Public libraries do as well. The boston public library just replaced some Vaxen with Alpha machines. I couldn't get them to tell me what they did with the old stuff. In general, I would say that the amount of old machines is greater than a given reasonable estimate (ie there's always one more). Also, I'm wondering how many simple cash registers will have to be taken out of service. > >Hmmm... And Sam, you have an interesting thought. But I wonder actually how >many old systems you refer to are actually are still in use? > >Anybody who's got a better handle on the present population of minis and >mainframes still in service want to give an opinion on this? > >One drawback for me (maybe others here too): my wife will kill me if I drag >home a second or third big-iron machine ;-) We just moved into a new house >and I can say for sure that we are only _half-moved_ at the moment. The >other stuff yet to move is my collections, library, workshop, tools, >equipment, parts, stuff, etc, etc, etc.. I am tired and sore already. >Thank heaven the old and new house are only about a mile apart! > >At 14:05 23-04-98 -0700, Kip wrote: >>At 09:27 4/23/98 -0700, Sam wrote: >>>I'm sure this is not even an original thought, but the Year 2000 presents >>>a special opportunity for collectors like us. >> >>See ANALYTICAL ENGINE Volume 1, Number 2, October 1993 ;-) If we think >>we've got a space crisis NOW.... >>__________________________________________ >>Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org >> http://www.chac.org/index.html >>Computer History Association of California >> >Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian >Jamestown, NY USA >Member of Antique Wireless Association > URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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Replies to various threads

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< :> I have: 1802, SC/MP, 6800, 6809, NEC D78PG11, 8748/9, 8751, < :>8080/8085, z80, z180, z280, z8002, z8001, 808x, 8018x, 80286, < :>80386, 80486 and the micro version of minis 6100(pdp-8), < :>6120(PDP-8+EMA) TI9900, PDP11(T-11, F11, J-11). < < :Showoff :-) No 8008? I always wanted a 4004 (anyone listening out < :there, that's a hint) and an SC/MP. Anybody remember Fairchild F8's The 8008 doesn't count as it's not operational. I only have the cpu card out of my first design. ;-) Same for the 2901/2911 based hardware and the 29116 board. I also have an ADVICE, thats a VAX (78032 chip) on a board for in circuit emulation. I keep forgetting it. Strange board! F8/3870 yes, never desgned with it but I had to know it to compete. Allison

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Fwd: Re: Commodore 900

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

Pardon my forwarding this from the "Team Amiga" mailing list, but I figure some people here might find this very interesting. Zane >Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 00:54:25 -0400 (EDT) >To: <teamamiga(a)thule.no> >From: Dave Haynie <dhaynie(a)jersey.net> >Subject: Re: Commodore 900 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Sender: owner-teamamiga(a)thule.no >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: teamamiga(a)thule.no > >On Thu, 23 Apr 1998 23:55:49 +0500, amorel <amorel(a)xs4all.nl> jammed all >night, and by sunrise was overheard remarking: > >>> When Commodore Holland went bust, there stuff got sold to different >> traders. At a fair in Nov. 1995, in Holland(HCC beurs) I bought an >> interesting machine, called the Commodore 900. > >Cool! I would love to have one of those. > >The C900 was the Commodore "next generation" machine, before we bought >Amiga. It had unfortunately been through a few different design teams >before it really worked. I never worked on it -- I was on the C128 at >the time. George Robbins and Bob Welland really got it going; the same >guys who created the A500 architecture. The C900 was about ready to ship >when we bought the Amiga. Commodore was hurtin' then -- we had been >through four rounds of layoffs, the only time it got worse was in later >'93/early '94 when they bought the farm. C= put everything behind the >Amiga -- emotionally, in retrospect, the right thing to do. But I can't >help but wonder if the C900 might not have gone gangbusters, especially >in Europe. At the time, the only megapixel UNIX workstations came from >Sun and Apollo... > >> The machine is a Unix workstation. > >It actually ran Coherent, a UNIX clone from Mark-Williams. > >> Inside there is a shitload of electronics. At least there's no room for >> a lot more, like extension cards. > >Actually, it did take expansion cards, but kind of a novel design -- >they stacked, one on top of the other. If you've ever seen PC/104 cards, >you'll get the idea. The 8563 chip, the 80 column chip in the C128, was >originally designed as a "dumb terminal" display chip for the C900. >Apparently, the idea was to have this chip, and a 6502 or some-such, and >an RS-232 chip (like the 6551), togther in a character-based monitor, >for cheap multiuser systems built up around the C900. There was also a >blitter based graphics card (the built-in monochrome display has no >blitter), with a Welland-done blitter (a bit more sophisticated in some >places than the Amiga, for example, like AAA, it would work in real >pixel coordinates, rather than offset/modulo). > >> The motherboard has Zilog 16 bit CPU (16 bit version of the Z80?) > >The Z8000. It wasn't a 16-bit version of the Z-80, but something new. It >wasn't quite as cool as the 68000, since the model was definitely >16-bit. But much better than the 8086/8088 of the time. > >> and one which might be scsi and more. > >The DMA chip on the A2090/A2090A controllers for the Amiga, was >originally designed for this system. > >> The great thing is, it even works! :-) > >Cool! > >> Anyway, has anyone any info about this? > >You know pretty much what I know. I don't know if there's anything else, >I can ask around, see if George has any details. Gimme a direct mail if >you'd like to continue offline. > >> Until now I have not had any sign of anyone on internet who knows >> about this. > >Rarer than the A3000+, I suspect. A definite collector's item. > >Dave Haynie | V.P. Technology, PIOS Computer | http://www.pios.de >Be Dev #2024 | DMX2000 Powered! | Amiga 2000, 3000, 4000, PIOS One > Buy my house! Take the tour at http://www.jersey.net/~dhaynie > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

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Year 2000 Bounty

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

What really came to my mind was an ancient McDonalds thing I saw once. They were 50's style rounded video monitors, awful text. They looked like something from "Brazil". I was wondering how those would tolerate it. Also, those UPS hand-held things > >> In general, I would say that the amount of old machines is greater >> than a given reasonable estimate (ie there's always one more). >> Also, I'm wondering how many simple cash registers will have to be >> taken out of service. > >The _simple_ cash registers will keep plugging along doing what they >do best. As far as I can tell, they're not particularly sensitive >to what century they're in. The complex fancy new-fangled registers >are a whole nother story -- anybody know what types of systems are >most used at the other end of the cables attached to the laser >bar-code readers? Not an industry I've dealt with much except as a >consumer. (I know damned well there are a few NCR registers still >in service from the 19th century -- they should make the transition >to the 21st without a hickup.) >-- >Ward Griffiths >They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. >Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. > Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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C64 3 1/2" drive

by manney＠lrbcg.com

Just turned up a Commodore 3 1/2" drive -- didn't know they existed! Anyone interested? Also, some strange thing with 4 hand held units with 4 buttons each, which plugs into the joystick port. No software. manney(a)lrbcg.com

28 years, 1 month

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[getting old punched cards read]

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 24, 19:55, Bob Withers wrote: The original poster stated that he was passing a NULL POINTER to strcpy. You replied that it should be OK to copy from a NUL STRING. I understand the difference and was trying to casually point out that you were not addressing the question asked. Sorry if I ruffled some feathers. You didn't. I just normally write in that tone of voice (if you see what I mean :-)) -- and I hadn't quite thought it through. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

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Osborne 1 for $1000?

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Somebody's been reading that LA Times article again... Kai -----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail [mailto:dastar@wco.com] Sent: Thursday, April 23, 1998 12:54 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Osborne 1 for $1000? Anyone want to buy an Osborne 1 for $1000? Didn't think so. However, if you're interested in trying to talk this guy down to reality, I have the contact info. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Don't blame me...I voted for Satan. Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 04/23/98]

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[getting old punched cards read]

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 24, 20:32, Captain Napalm wrote: > It was thus said that the Great Pete Turnbull once stated: > > Yes, but that's not what I wrote. A null string is an empty string (no > > characters). A NUL string would be a string with a single ASCII NUL > > character in it > And what I was talking about was NULL pointers, which strcpy() doesn't > like. > > -spc (and it's a NULL POINTER that strtok() will return, not a NULL > string.) Oops. Too much gin in the tonic water tonight. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

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[getting old punched cards read]

by bwit＠pobox.com

The original poster stated that he was passing a NULL POINTER to strcpy. You replied that it should be OK to copy from a NUL STRING. I understand the difference and was trying to casually point out that you were not addressing the question asked. Sorry if I ruffled some feathers. Bob ---------- From: Pete Turnbull[SMTP:pete@dunnington.u-net.com] Sent: Friday, April 24, 1998 7:39 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: [getting old punched cards read] On Apr 24, 17:10, Bob Withers wrote: > There's a big difference between a NUL string and a NULL pointer. Yes, but that's not what I wrote. A null string is an empty string (no characters). A NUL string would be a string with a single ASCII NUL character in it -- and rather hard to manipulate in C, since NULs mark the ends. Nevertheless, they do exist, though that wasn't what I was talking about. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 1 month

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Osborne 1 for $1000?

by dastar＠wco.com

Anyone want to buy an Osborne 1 for $1000? Didn't think so. However, if you're interested in trying to talk this guy down to reality, I have the contact info. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't blame me...I voted for Satan. Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 04/23/98]

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Replies to various threads

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 23, 14:33, Allison J Parent wrote: > Subject: Re: Re[2]: Replies to various threads > > <> The PDP-11 architecture has only 7 GP registers (since you can't really > <> the PC for just anything) but that's good for the times, and they reall > <> are interchangable, so I'd be willing to argue that it wins on that. > < > <I'm glad somebody agrees with me on that! IMHO the concept of a GP > <register is a RISC sort of thing. And, Allison, if you think RISC > <should be register-rich, I claim the PDP11 was for its date, and > <certainly was compared to micros of the 1970s. > > Compared to maybe 6800 or 6502, the 8080 had 4 16bit registers (bc, de, > hl, sp). The z80 added a second set and IX/IY. But that was only one > aspect. But you can't easily use both sets of registers at the same time (yes, I know we sometimes do, but it's a fiddle) and the Z80 is very much a single-accumulator type of beast. And as for IX and IY ;-) The original design of the 6502, incidentally, was that all of zero-page be treated as registers. They just happen to be external to the chip, which wasn't completely unknown elsewhere in those days. So in that sense it is possibly the most register-rich design of the era -- but the registers are hardly general-purpose, and the 6502 is also a single-accumulator design. > On the instructions RISC systems of the time and even later didn't have > the addressing modes and often had a distinct register load and store > instruction. The best example of that difference was an ADD (R1),@(r2)+. > Now compare that to the DG Nova and it is of a stark difference. If you count all the ways you can index with registers, MIPS processors have quite a few addressing modes. Not all are used very often, though. > Of all the micros in my collection, none are RISC save for the PDP-8 and > 6502 which in my mind come close. The 6502 has a certain elegance of instruction set. Quite a different philosophy to the Z80, in many ways, but I like them both. We used to say that you had to learn how to use the 6502, and when you did, the code was neat, but on a Z80, you just had to decide what you wanted an instruction to do, and then pick the one that did that. Exaggeration, of course. > I have: 1802, SC/MP, 6800, 6809, NEC D78PG11, 8748/9, 8751, 8080/8085, > z80, z180, z280, z8002, z8001, 808x, 8018x, 80286, 80386, 80486 and the > micro version of minis 6100(pdp-8), 6120(PDP-8+EMA) TI9900, PDP11(T-11, > F11, J-11). Showoff :-) No 8008? I always wanted a 4004 (anyone listening out there, that's a hint) and an SC/MP. Anybody remember Fairchild F8's? > Now something with a MIPS chip, ARM, sparc or some such would be a great > addition of a real RISC processor. Well, I've got all of those, and my favourite is the ARM. I've had to write MIPS assembler, and it's not great fun. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

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ansi c (almost on topic) was: [getting old punched cards read]

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 24, 12:38, Paul E Coad wrote: > On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, Captain Napalm wrote: > > It was thus said that the Great Pete Turnbull once stated: > > > > > > On Apr 24, 1:35, Captain Napalm wrote: > > > > strcpy() (at least on my compiler) will crash if any of the > > > > parameters are NULL pointers, > > > > > > That's a compiler (or library, actually) bug. You should be able to > > > copy a null string. > > > > Well, I've tried it across four platforms and five compilers > > (Linux/GCC, Solaris/native and GCC, AIX/native and HPUX/native) and > > three of the five core dumped. > > > The ANSI standard is not completely silent on the matter, but does not > define the behavior. > > "Each of the following statements applies unless explicitly stated > otherwise in the detailed descriptions that follow. If an argument > to a function has an invalid value (such as a value outside of the > domain of the function, or a pointer outside the address space of > the program or a null pointer), the behavior is undefined." Well, whether I think that's sensible or not ('cos I think you ought to be able to copy a null string), if ANSI says it's undefined, then it's not a bug. I take it back. And thanks for checking, which I was too lazy to do :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 1 month

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[getting old punched cards read]

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 24, 17:10, Bob Withers wrote: > There's a big difference between a NUL string and a NULL pointer. Yes, but that's not what I wrote. A null string is an empty string (no characters). A NUL string would be a string with a single ASCII NUL character in it -- and rather hard to manipulate in C, since NULs mark the ends. Nevertheless, they do exist, though that wasn't what I was talking about. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

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Here's an interesting spam

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 24, 11:53, Don Maslin wrote: > On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > On Apr 24, 15:38, Hotze wrote: > > > Reply to the spammers, > > > > Not often a good idea, since the consensus seems to be that responses > > merely confirm that the address they used is (still) valid. > > True! However, in some cases e-mail with a copy of the spam or UCE to > the postmaster of the ISP has been productive. In the case of known spam > centers though, it is likely a BIG mistake. Yes, I should perhaps have mentioned mailing to postmaster@... or abuse@... as several responsible ISPs do follow these things up. I've had two very positive responses from sysadmins, one of whom tracked a spammer who was spoofing via his system, and one from a large ISP. In both cases, the culprit lost their account. It's worth looking at all the "Received: from ..." headers in such cases. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

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