From melamy@earthlink.net Thu Aug 12 06:11:18 2004 From: melamy@earthlink.net To: test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org Subject: archive file format exmaple Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 06:11:18 +0000 Message-ID: <20568369.1092309078565.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0958180684161092182==" --===============0958180684161092182== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable here is a "crude" example of what I was talking about.=20 try: a place to put whatever relevant information is needed about the format or= achive or your favorite poem or joke Tandy Model 100 Ian Blindly 5.25" floppy MFM? RLL? something ... 35 1 18 8 ... 456789ABCDEF... 1234567890A... 890ABCDEF01245... 456789ABCDEF... 456789ABCDEF... 1234567890A... 890ABCDEF01245... 456789ABCDEF... 456789ABCDEF... 1234567890A... 890ABCDEF01245... 456789ABCDEF... please don't get hung up on names, etc, The basic structure is what I have be= en=20 talking about. A utility can go into the archive file, find a , know what it is and extract it without having to know anything about the OS. = Another utility can read the media, datamap, and datablocks to re-create tracks in me= mory to then write out to disk. There was earlier talk about years from now being = able to still re-create disks. I think that is a fine ambition, but that still req= uires all the hardware and intimate OS knowledge to still be around. My idea was to= at least be able to extract the data without having to have ANY knowledge of the= OS. best regards, Steve Thatcher --===============0958180684161092182==-- From julesrichardsonuk@yahoo.co.uk Thu Aug 12 06:50:47 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk@yahoo.co.uk To: test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org Subject: archive file format exmaple Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 06:50:47 +0000 Message-ID: <1092311446.10829.52.camel@weka.localdomain> In-Reply-To: <20568369.1092309078565.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1992206018996863280==" --===============1992206018996863280== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 2004-08-12 at 11:11, Steve Thatcher wrote: > here is a "crude" example of what I was talking about. > [snip] That looks good. How's about moving things like author into the definitions section? I'm not sure that it belongs at the top level, but more in the section containing archive info (description, creation date etc.) I'd suggest making certain fields mandatory in what you've called the definitions section. People tend to be lazy, which means the temptation is there to create an archive and not bother to include much of the information, thinking that they'll know what it is a few years down the line. We've all be caught out by that one! (author, date, description are good candidates for mandatory fields; there'll be others too) I'm not so sure about having the actual data within the archive element; I'd rather have it afterwards. Data in your datamap section still points to chunks of data, using whatever scheme is understood by the storage/compression system used by the archive. But then the possibility is there for using an encoding method that doesn't mix with XML data if needs be. It also makes it easy to scan the archive section by eye as it's not mixed up with huge chunks of encoded media data. Actually, you could probably build collections of media archives (say for some common platform) all within the same file that way, without breaking the format - the data in the datamap section of the first archive section just points to other archives within the same file. That's kinda neat. eg. (simplifying a little for example purposes): ... as before ... ... as before ... ... .... .... .. that way anything following the archive section doesn't have to be XML data even, providing the definition within the datamap section for the encoding/compression scheme used by the archive can reach it. It might be zipped data, other archive definitions, whatever. cheers, Jules --===============1992206018996863280==-- From hans.franke@siemens.com Thu Aug 12 08:30:07 2004 From: "Hans.Franke@siemens.com" To: test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org Subject: archive file format exmaple Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 08:30:07 +0000 Message-ID: <411B8CFF.25713.F1FA7AD@localhost> In-Reply-To: <1092311446.10829.52.camel@weka.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6688574196652972520==" --===============6688574196652972520== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Am 12 Aug 2004 11:50 meinte Jules Richardson: > On Thu, 2004-08-12 at 11:11, Steve Thatcher wrote: > > here is a "crude" example of what I was talking about.=20 > > [snip] >=20 > That looks good. Well, in fact it reassembles quite much something I postet some 3 years or so ago on classiccomp (I repost the original definition in a paralell message - that was the first draft, the actual is a bit more advanced by now, but I don't have it here at work). I have been working on that afterwards, but as usual, there where way moe other things to do, so it faded away a bit. Maybe I should get finaly my ass moving and post all the stuff on the Website that I prepared for it some years ago :) > How's about moving things like author into the definitions section? I think such stuff (i.e. basicly everything that is not necersarry for a narrow minded application which works only on one system like a reader/writer for Apple DOS 3.3 on an Apple II) should be optional. > I'm not so sure about having the actual data within the archive element; > I'd rather have it afterwards. I would prefer an aproach where both ways are possible, includeing a third wich allows to put the data even into another file. In the CCDD definition almost every element (except META) may be empty and have a HREF attribute pointing to it's content: A take header record could have it's data included: HDR2U020480204841 = 00 or just point to the data HDR2U020480204841= 00 which of course may even be in another file: This linking structure was a side effekt from the main goal to define a XML format, which is not only able to represent the information of one storage media, but also a storage configuration. And for more complex configurations it might be useful to have configuration and media independently defined. Some may say that configuration is not needed, but then again, for some applications you have to have several media online in a certain way, otherwise it won't work (e.g. a programm disk in drive 1 and a data disk in drive 2).=20 Furthermore it simplifies the design (and handling) of emulators, when one can mount a whole set of media in a specific configuration ar once. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 6.0 am 30.April und 01.Mai 2005 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ --===============6688574196652972520==-- From jbmcb@hotmail.com Thu Aug 12 09:04:16 2004 From: jbmcb@hotmail.com To: test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org Subject: archive file format exmaple Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:04:16 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20568369.1092309078565.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3459135022079648533==" --===============3459135022079648533== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How about breaking up the sections a bit, like HTML sections? Putting card-catalog information up top in it's own section would speed indexing and searches. Like this: a place to put whatever relevant information is needed about the format or achive or your favorite poem or joke Pete Smith ROM Dumper V4.12 02004-02-02 Omega Race Midway Commodore VIC-20 ROM Game Cartridge .... ....etc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Thatcher" To: Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 7:11 AM Subject: archive file format exmaple > here is a "crude" example of what I was talking about. > > try: > > > > a place to put whatever relevant information is needed about the format or achive > or your favorite poem or joke > > Tandy Model 100 > Ian Blindly > > 5.25" floppy > > MFM? RLL? something ... > 35 > 1 > 18 > 8 > > > > > dataitemid="SB1" /> > dataitemid="SB1"/> > /> > /> > ... > > > > /> > dataitemid="SB1"/> > > /> > > > > > > 456789ABCDEF... > 1234567890A... > 890ABCDEF01245... > 456789ABCDEF... > > > > 456789ABCDEF... > 1234567890A... > 890ABCDEF01245... > 456789ABCDEF... > > > > 456789ABCDEF... > 1234567890A... > 890ABCDEF01245... > 456789ABCDEF... > > > > > please don't get hung up on names, etc, The basic structure is what I have been > talking about. A utility can go into the archive file, find a , > know what it is and extract it without having to know anything about the OS. Another > utility can read the media, datamap, and datablocks to re-create tracks in memory > to then write out to disk. There was earlier talk about years from now being able > to still re-create disks. I think that is a fine ambition, but that still requires > all the hardware and intimate OS knowledge to still be around. My idea was to at > least be able to extract the data without having to have ANY knowledge of the OS. > > best regards, Steve Thatcher > > --===============3459135022079648533==-- From vcf@siconic.com Thu Aug 12 16:33:59 2004 From: vcf@siconic.com To: test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org Subject: archive file format exmaple Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:33:59 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1092311446.10829.52.camel@weka.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2779762973298717478==" --===============2779762973298717478== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 12 Aug 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > On Thu, 2004-08-12 at 11:11, Steve Thatcher wrote: > > here is a "crude" example of what I was talking about. > > [snip] > > That looks good. How's about moving things like author into the > definitions section? I'm not sure that it belongs at the top level, but > more in the section containing archive info (description, creation date > etc.) I think it's rather premature to be discussing implementation :( -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] --===============2779762973298717478==-- From vcf@siconic.com Thu Aug 12 16:55:24 2004 From: vcf@siconic.com To: test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org Subject: archive file format exmaple Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:55:24 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <411B8CFF.25713.F1FA7AD@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4830571807772985487==" --===============4830571807772985487== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 12 Aug 2004, Hans Franke wrote: > I would prefer an aproach where both ways are possible, includeing > a third wich allows to put the data even into another file. In the > CCDD definition almost every element (except META) may be empty and > have a HREF attribute pointing to it's content: Nononononono (neineineineineineinein). This would be BAD practice. While I would make the spec allow this, I would *strongly* discourage it. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] --===============4830571807772985487==-- From vcf@siconic.com Thu Aug 12 17:00:12 2004 From: vcf@siconic.com To: test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org Subject: archive file format exmaple Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 17:00:12 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5330895590952477323==" --===============5330895590952477323== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 12 Aug 2004, Jason McBrien wrote: > How about breaking up the sections a bit, like HTML sections? > Putting card-catalog information up top in it's own section would speed > indexing and searches. Like this: It's too early to discuss implementation. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] --===============5330895590952477323==--